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Dynamic Civ Names

Discussion in 'Rhye's and Fall: Europe' started by AbsintheRed, Nov 5, 2011.

  1. DC123456789

    DC123456789 Chieftain

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    The Visigothic/Suevic names for if they have Norse masters don't really make any sense. I'd recommend just a generic "Jarldom of Spain/Portugal/Aragon".

    For Spain:
    Vassal of Aragon/Portugal: County of Castile
    Vassal of England: Earldom of Castile
    Vassal of Scotland: Mormaerdom of Castile
    Vassal of Germany/Prussia: March of Castile (Spanish March is an actual term for something else)
    Portugal vassalized, Aragon controlled or vassalized: Iberian Union
    Holding Lusitania and Aragon: Kingdom of Iberia
    Holding Aragon or has Aragon as vassal: Kingdom of Spain
    At least 4 provinces(?): Crown of Castile
    Holding Castile: Kingdom of Castile
    After 924: Kingdom of Leon (does Spain spawn at this date? Ignore this and below if yes)
    Default Name: Kingdom of Asturias

    I also don't think that the Spanish Empire names really make sense, at least in a European context (given that it was mostly referring to their colonial empire).
     
  2. DC123456789

    DC123456789 Chieftain

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    Portugal:
    Vassal of Spain/Aragon, small: County of Portugal
    Vassal of Spain/Aragon: Council of Portugal
    Vassal of Norway/Denmark/Sweden: Jarldom of Portugal
    Vassal of Venice: Colony of Portugal
    Vassal of England: Earldom of Portugal
    Vassal of Scotland: Mormaerdom of Portugal
    Controls Algarve: Kingdom of Portugal and the Algarves (Maybe, once Algarve is added as a seperate province)

    Portugal could also possibly get the Spanish/Iberian names if they take over Castile, Aragon, etc. if you want:

    Aragon vassalized, Spain/Castile vassalized or Castile and Toledo controlled: Iberian Union
    Holding Aragon, Castile and Toledo: Kingdom of Iberia
    Holding Castile and Toledo or has Spain/Castile as vassal: Kingdom of Spain
     
  3. gilgames

    gilgames Priest-King

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    yes it used to happen, pretty often. They used to take andalusia and/or leon.
     
  4. DC123456789

    DC123456789 Chieftain

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    Spain:
    Vassal of Cordoba: Emirate of al-Tagr al-Awsat
    Vassal of Arabia/Morocco: Emirate of Tulaytulah or Emirate of al-Qila

    Portugal:
    Vassal of Cordoba: Emirate of al-Tagr al-Adna
    Vassal of Arabia/Morocco: Emirate of Batalyaws or Emirate of Burtughal

    Aragon:

    Vassal of France/Burgundy: Spanish March
    Vassal of Cordoba: Emirate of al-Tagr al-A'la
    Vassal of Arabia/Morocco: Emirate of Saraqusta or Emirate of Aragu'un
    Vassal of Spain/Portugal: County of Aragon
    Vassal of Norway/Denmark/Sweden: Jarldom of Aragon
    Vassal of England: Earldom of Aragon
    Vassal of Scotland: Mormaerdom of Aragon
    Vassal of Ottomans: Eyalet of Aragona

    Portugal vassalized, Spain/Castile vassalized or Castile and Toledo controlled: Iberian Union
    Holding Lusitania, Castile and Toledo: Kingdom of Iberia
    Holding Castile and Toledo or has Spain/Castile as vassal: Kingdom of Spain

    Sicily:

    Vassal of Byzantium: Catepanate of Italy
    Vassal of France/Burgundy: Kingdom of Naples (?)
    Vassal of Arabia/Cordoba/Morocco: Emirate of Siqilliyya
    Vassal of Spain/Aragon/Portugal: Kingdom of Trinacria (?)
    Vassal of Norway/Denmark/Sweden: Jarldom of Langbarðaland
    Vassal of England: Earldom of Sicily
    Vassal of Scotland: Mormaerdom of Sicily
    Vassal of Ottomans: Eyalet of Sicily
    Generic Vassal (all the other civs): Province of Sicilya

    Under Merchant Republic with Islam: Islamic Republic of Sicily
    Under Merchant Republic: Republic of Sicily
    Islam State Religion, controls at least 3 provinces (?): Sultanate of Sicily
    Islam State Religion: Emirate of Bari
     
  5. SanJose

    SanJose Chieftain

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    Vassal of Bulgarians: Moskovska d"rzhava *
    Vassal of Bulgarians: Kortdzhak **
    Vassal of Byzantines: Exarchate/Themes(themata) of Muscovy
    Vassal of Byzantines/Bulgarians: Despotate of Muscovy
    Vassal of Germany/Prussians: Weißrussland/Weissen Russen
    Vassal of Polish/Lithuanians: The Seven Boyars [Russian: Семибоярщина, the Russian term indicating "Rule of the Seven Boyars" or "the Deeds of the Seven Boyars"]
    Vassal of Polish/Lithuanians: Russia/Ruthenia Alba(e)
    Vassal of Kievans: Zalesye/Opolye
    Vassal of Novgorod: Upper Volga Pyatina
    Vassal of Kievans/Novgorod: Muscovy volost' (county) [if small, until the end of the 15th century]
    Vassal of Kievans/Novgorod: Principality of Muscovy; Principality of Rostov; Principality of Vladimir-Suzdal; etc [by name of capital]
    Vassal of France/Burgundy: la Russie Blanche
    Vassal of Arabs/Cordoba/Moroccans: Artania
    Vassal of Ottomans: Muscovy khanate
    Vassal of Danish/Norwegians/Swedish: Jarldom of Smaleskja/Súrsdalar/Móramar/Ráðstofa
    Generic Vassal (all the other civs): Northeast Russia

    Grand Duchy of Moscow [before 1547AD]
    Tsardom of Russia [between 1547AD and 1721AD]
    Russian empire [after 1721AD]

    If Catholic: Russian kingdom
    If Islam: Muscovy sultanate
    As Ortodox theocratic state: The Moscow Patriarchate [before 1721AD]
    As Ortodox theocratic state: The Most Holy Governing Synod [after 1721AD]

    As Ortodox theocratic state: Third Rome [joke]
    * symbol " indicates ъ
    **It is the name of the territory of modern Moscow, Vladimir and Ivanovo regions of Russia from Cäğfär Taríxı, non-academic source on the history of the Volga Bulgars
     
  6. DC123456789

    DC123456789 Chieftain

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    Some Viking names for previously mentioned civs:
    Bulgaria as Norse Vassal: Jarldom of Bolgaraland
    Hungary as Norse Vassal: Jarldom of Ungararíki
    Sicily as Norse Vassal, Controls Sicily: Jarldom of Sikileyjar
    Spain as Norse Vassal: Jarldom of Spán
     
  7. DC123456789

    DC123456789 Chieftain

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    Tunisia as Norse Vassal: Jarldom of Afríku
    Poland as Norse Vassal: Jarldom of Pólínalandi
     
  8. AbsintheRed

    AbsintheRed Chieftain

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    I'm not sure if I like these Norse names.
    If we go in that direction, we will have all names in a form which is way too unrecognizeable
    I mean should I do the same for Hungarian names too? Not Sicily but Szicília?
     
  9. AbsintheRed

    AbsintheRed Chieftain

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    Latest versions:
     
    Last edited: Mar 3, 2017
  10. AbsintheRed

    AbsintheRed Chieftain

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    minor updates here too
     
  11. AbsintheRed

    AbsintheRed Chieftain

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    Decided to add Earldom, Mormaerdom and Banate for almost all civs, fits fairly well IMO.
    Also I liked some more suggestions from DC123456789, but ATM we can only have 1 province prereq in these names
     
  12. DC123456789

    DC123456789 Chieftain

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    Well, something similar is already done for the Arabs and Turks. I think it does add flavour but I agree with your recognizability concern; your choice on how to proceed.



    The Taifa names for Islamic Republics don't really make sense, except for Cordoba; almost all the Taifas were emirates/monarchies, with the exception of the Taifa of Cordoba (which you seem to have based it off of). Just "Islamic Republic" is probably better.

    What did you think of Byzantium as vassal of Germany: Empire of the Greeks?

    Tunisia names should mostly be variants on Africa/Ifriqiya, I think.
    Other, more specific suggestions:
    Vassal of Byzantium: Exarchate of Africa
    Vassal of Arabs/Morocco: Emirate of Ifriqiya
    Vassal of Ottomans: Eyalet of Tunis
    Christian State Religion: Kingdom of Africa
    Islam State Religion, Controls 3 provinces(?): Hafsid Caliphate
    Islam State Religion: Hafsid Emirate

    Maghreb Jarldom (Morroco as vassal of Denmark/Norway/Sweden) sounds kind of strange; just Jarldom of Mauretania or Jarldom of Morroco would be better, I think.

    For generic vassal names, Polish and Lithuanian vassals could use Voivodeship. Bulgaria could use Oblast, and Genoa could copy Venice and use Colony (it does feel kind of odd but I don't have any better ideas). I think that would give all the civs a unique name for their vassals?
     
  13. AbsintheRed

    AbsintheRed Chieftain

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    Well, we also don't have names for the Dutch, but it's not a problem to have some exceptions. So I wouldn't add Colony for Genoese vassals just for the sake of having something.
    Voivodeship is kinda used as the Lithuanian UB, not that fond of Oblast either.
    Will decide it later, might add some of them in a later update, but for now I'm finished with the DCN updates :)
     
  14. AbsintheRed

    AbsintheRed Chieftain

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    Can someone help me in putting the suggestions in the last few pages for Novgorod/Kiev/Russia more in line with the already updated DCN (from a couple posts above)?
     
  15. DC123456789

    DC123456789 Chieftain

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    Novgorod
    Vassal of Byzantines: Exarchate of Nemogardas/Novgorod
    Vassal of France/Burgundy: Duchy of Novgorod
    Vassal of Arabs/Cordoba/Moroccans: Emirate of Salawiya
    Vassal of Bulgaria: župa/Zhupa of Volkhov or Comitatus of Novgorod (if you want to give a name for it)
    Vassal of Spain/Aragon: Viceroyalty of Novgorod
    Vassal of Denmark/Norway, holds 5/6 cities(?): Jarldom of Garðaríki
    Vassal of Denmark/Norway: Jarldom of Holmgarðr
    Vassal of Sweden: Swedish Ingria
    Vassal of Venice: Colony of Novgorod
    Vassal of Kiev: Principality of Novgorod
    Vassal of Muscovy: Novgorod Land
    Vassal of Prussia: Bailiwick of Novgorod (or March of Novgorod)
    Vassal of Germany: Free State of Novgorod (or March of Novgorod)
    Vassal of England: Earldom of Novgorod
    Vassal of Scotland: Mormaerdom of Novgorod
    Vassal of Hungary: Banate of Novgorod
    Vassal of Austria: Habsburg Novgorod
    Vassal of Poland/Lithuania: Novgorod Voivodeship (if you want to give a name for it)
    Vassal of Ottomans: Eyalet of Novgorod
    Generic Vassal: Province of Novgorod

    Under Merchant Republic or Bureaucracy with Islam State Religion: Islamic Republic of Novgorod
    Under Merchant Republic or Bureaucracy: Novgorod Republic
    Islam State Religion: Sultanate of Novgorod
    Under Tribal Law (and Paganism?): Ilmen Slavs
    Default: Principality of Novgorod
     
    Last edited: Feb 15, 2017
  16. DC123456789

    DC123456789 Chieftain

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    Kiev
    Vassal of Byzantium: Exarchate of Ruthenia
    Vassal of France/Burgundy: Duchy of Kiev
    Vassal of Arabs/Cordoba/Moroccans: Emirate of Kuyaba/Kuyavia
    Vassal of Bulgarians: župa/Zhupa of Kiev (if you want to give a name for it)
    Vassal of Spain/Aragon: Viceroyalty of Kiev
    Vassal of Denmark/Norway/Sweden: Jarldom of Kœnugarðr
    Vassal of Venice: Colony of Kiev
    Vassal of Novgorod: Kiev Volost' or Principality of Kiev
    Vassal of Muscovy, more than 5/6 cities: Cossack Hetmanate/Zaporizhian Host
    Vassal of Muscovy: Guberniya of Kiev
    Vassal of Germany/Prussia: March of Kiev
    Vassal of England: Earldom of Kiev
    Vassal of Scotland: Mormaerdom of Kiev
    Vassal of Hungary: Banate/Principality of Galicia-Volhynia
    Vassal of Austria: Kingdom of/Habsburg Galicia and Lodomeria
    Vassal of Polish/Lithuanians: Kijow/Kiev Voivodeship (if you want to give a name for it)
    Vassal of Ottomans: Eyalet of Podolia (or Eyalet of Kiev)
    Generic Vassal: Province of Kiev

    Under Merchant Republic with Islam: Islamic Republic of Kiev
    Under Merchant Republic: Republic of Kiev
    Catholic(/Protestant?) State Religion: Kingdom of Rus
    Islam State Religion: Rurikid Sultanate or Sultanate of Kiev
    After 1100 (?), more than 5/6 cities: Kievan' Rus
    After 1100 (?): Principality of Kiev
    Default: Kievan' Rus

    Muscovy
    Vassal of Byzantium: Exarchate of Moscow/Moscovia
    Vassal of France/Burgundy: Duchy of Moscow
    Vassal of Arabs/Cordoba/Morocco: Emirate of Artaniya
    Vassal of Bulgarians: župa/Zhupa of Moscow (if you want to give a name for it)
    Vassal of Spain/Aragon: Viceroyalty of Moscow
    Vassal of Danish/Norwegians/Swedish: Jarldom of Móramar(Murom) or Jarldom of Moscow
    Vassal of Venice: Colony of Moscow
    Vassal of Kiev/Novgorod: Principality of Moscow
    Vassal of Germany/Prussians: March of Moscow
    Vassal of England: Earldom of Muscovy
    Vassal of Scotland: Mormaerdom of Moscow
    Vassal of Hungary: Banate of Moscow
    Vassal of Austria: Habsburg Moscow
    Vassal of Polish/Lithuanians: Moscow Voivodeship (if you want to give a name for it)
    Vassal of Ottomans: Eyalet of Moscow
    Generic Vassal: Province of Moscow

    Under Merchant Republic with Islam: Islamic Republic of Moscow
    Under Merchant Republic: Republic of Moscow
    Islam State Religion: Sultanate of Moscow
    Controls 7/8(?) provinces, running Tribal/Feudal Law or Despotism/Feudal Monarchy: Tsardom of Russia
    Controls 7/8(?) provinces: Russian Empire
    More than 3/4 cities: Grand Duchy of Moscow
    Default: Principality of Moscow
     
  17. AbsintheRed

    AbsintheRed Chieftain

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    Thanks for the help! :)

    @SanJose, any comments how to further improve these?
    I don't want to ditch your ideas, there are a couple pretty good ones there too (also you clearly spent a lot of time putting them together).
    But I would like to have the DCN for these 3 in a similar form as the other civs have it.
     
  18. SanJose

    SanJose Chieftain

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    @AbsintheRed I will be able to devote time to assist in the project in April, when I will have a vacation
     
  19. DC123456789

    DC123456789 Chieftain

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    Could the French Empire dynamic name be changed to just total number of provinces, and make that a rather high number (>12), or at least make the number of unstable provinces requirement higher? As an example, France can get the French Empire DCN too easily IMO; in my recent gane, just by controlling Holland (independent Groningen) and Lebanon (Tyre, from a crusade).
     
  20. AbsintheRed

    AbsintheRed Chieftain

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    Sure, sounds reasonable.
     

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