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Dynamic Civ Names

Discussion in 'Rhye's and Fall: Europe' started by AbsintheRed, Nov 5, 2011.

  1. DC123456789

    DC123456789 Chieftain

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    I'm not sure if you increased the conditions for the Frankish Empire DCN when you changed the French Empire one, but it should probably be reduced (since right now completing France's UHV 1 won't give you the DCN, which is definitely weird since that's the whole idea behind the goal). I'd change it either 12-14 provinces total or 3-4 OK provinces; you could also potentially add a requirement to control Lombardy if you want, since a big part of Charlemagne's coronation came from conquering the Lombards.
     
  2. AbsintheRed

    AbsintheRed Chieftain

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    I kinda had to change that one too, because of the linear way DCN entries are checked.
    Would result in strange situations if we have different territorial conditions for these entries (which only have difference in the date otherwise).

    For example if we had it like this:
    4 unstable province and after ~900 -> French Empire
    2 unstable province -> Frankish Empire

    In this case, with 3 unstable provinces we would always get Frankish Empire. Even after the date condition.
    So it's kinda hard to get it right in this case, either the Frankish Empire title will be too hard, or the French Empire too easy.
    Unless we handle those totally separately. One only with unstable provines, the other only with total number of provinces.
     
  3. DC123456789

    DC123456789 Chieftain

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    Assuming I'm understanding the system correctly, could you do something like this:
    At least 7 OK/Unstable provinces after 843 AD: French Empire
    At least 3 OK/Unstable provinces after 843 AD: Kingdom of France
    At least 3 OK/Unstable provinces: Frankish Empire
    After 987 AD: Kingdom of France

    (or whatever triggers you choose for the French Empire/Frankish Empire DCNs)
    I think this would work?

    Also, France spawns currently spawns as "The French"; shouldn't they spawn as "Frankish Peoples" or at least "The Franks"?

    Also, (unless you don't want to make any changes before releasing 1.5), could we take a look at the English and German DCNs? Specifically, England gets the Kingdom of Great Britain DCN without controlling Scotland, which doesn't really make any sense, and are there any plans to make "Holy Roman Empire" the DCN of Germany at some point? The fact that the HRE never actually appears ingame IIRC is a little strange for a medieval Europe mod. :p
     
  4. AbsintheRed

    AbsintheRed Chieftain

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    Sure, it can be solved if we add a couple more entries.
    I just want to avoid that wherever possible, editing DCNames is already way too tedious.
    Probably you are right though, I guess this is still the preferred method... I'm just afraid there will be too many places where we have to split the entries in a similar way.

    Yep, oversight.

    There will be some DCN updates for 1.5.
    We will see how far I get with them.

    England and Germany is not yet planned though.
    You can put together a base list for them whenever you have time.
     
  5. DC123456789

    DC123456789 Chieftain

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    England:
    Vassal of Byzantium: Exarchate of Britannia
    Vassal of France/Burgundy: Duchy of La Manche
    Vassal of Arabia/Cordoba/Morroco: Emirate of Ingeltra
    Vassal of Spain/Aragon: Viceroyalty of England
    Vassal of Denmark: Jarldom of the Danelaw
    Vassal of Norway/Sweden:
    Jarldom of England
    Vassal of Venice: Colony of England
    Vassal of Novgorod/Kiev: Principality of England
    Vassal of Moscow: Guberniya of England

    Vassal of Germany/Prussia: March of British Saxony (or March of England)
    Vassal of Hungary: Banate of England
    Vassal of Austria: Habsburg England
    Vassal of Scotland: Mormaerdom of Cumberland (or Cumbria)
    Vassal of Ottomans: Eyalet of Britanya
    Generic Vassal: Province of England

    Merchant Republic and Islam: Islamic Republic of England
    Islam State Religion: Sultanate of England
    Merchant Republic: Commonwealth of England
    Controls Scotland:
    Kingdom of Great Britain
    Default Name: Kingdom of England
     
  6. AbsintheRed

    AbsintheRed Chieftain

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    Just checked, and actually it's set up as "Frankish Peoples" for the initial name in the DCN.
    Turns out the game ignores it until you found your city, and uses the adjective name for the civ instead.
    Which is "The French", and should probably remain that way.

    Similarly it's "Anglo-Saxon Peoples" in the initial name in the DCN, but appears as "The English".
    And I guess it's true for almost all civs.

    Does it work correctly in vanilla RFC?
    If yes, then I think it's a mistake in the .dll. Probably an oversight when the new DCN system was added.
     
  7. DC123456789

    DC123456789 Chieftain

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    I'm pretty sure it works correctly in most RFC modmods, so probably.
     
  8. AbsintheRed

    AbsintheRed Chieftain

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    Yeah, checked it since, found what's the issue in the .dll.
    Adding an initial name (before the first city is founded) is a missing function from the DCN system we have here.
    Will add it, but most likely not for 1.5.
     
  9. 2phunkey4u

    2phunkey4u West-Eastern Divan

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    How about Spain?

    It has irritated me that since the introduction of Aragon, it coexisted with The Spanish/Kingdom of Spain? (At least I remember it being like that.) Should not current Spain act as Kingdom of (Castile and) Leon from the start now? And either that or Aragon should become Kingdom of Spain once it controls >4/5/6(?) provinces and the other civ is either eliminated or vassalized?
     
  10. AbsintheRed

    AbsintheRed Chieftain

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    Updated the Scandinavian civs:
    Any suggestions/improvements on these?
     
  11. AbsintheRed

    AbsintheRed Chieftain

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    It already works that way.
    Some of the most basic names for Spain (Castile/Leon):
    Aragon vassalized: Kingdom of Spain
    Holding Aragon province: Kingdom of Spain
    At least 4 provinces: Crown of Castile
    Holding Castile province: Kingdom of Castile
    After 924 (turn 108): Kingdom of Leon
    Default name (if nothing else is true from the ones above): Kingdom of Asturias

    Same for Aragon:
    Spain vassalized: Kingdom of Spain
    Holding Leon province: Kingdom of Spain
    At least 5 at least historic provinces: Crown of Aragon
    Default name (if nothing else is true from the ones above): Kingdom of Aragon

    It's possible though that there are some mistakes left, but hopefully it works more-or less ok. Was updated somewhere between RFCE 1.3 and 1.4 IIRC.
    You can find the latest full lists for the recently updated civs in the last page.
     
  12. AbsintheRed

    AbsintheRed Chieftain

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    @DC123456789
    Any further tweaks in the Empire-numbers for France?
    At least 4 unstable provinces after 843 AD: French Empire
    At least 7 ok or unstable provinces after 843 AD: French Empire
    At least 2 unstable provinces after 987 AD: Kingdom of France
    At least 5 ok or unstable provinces after 987 AD: Kingdom of France
    At least 2 unstable provinces after 843 AD: Kingdom of West Francia
    At least 5 ok or unstable provinces after 843 AD: Kingdom of West Francia
    At least 2 unstable provinces: Frankish Empire
    At least 5 ok or unstable provinces: Frankish Empire
    At least 10 provinces: Frankish Empire
    After 987 AD: Kingdom of France
    After 843 AD: Kingdom of West Francia
    Default name (if nothing else is true from the ones above): Kingdom of the Franks
     
  13. DC123456789

    DC123456789 Chieftain

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    My thoughts:

    Denmark:
    Vassal of Arabs/Cordoba/Morroco: Emirate of Denmark (sounds better than Danish Emirate)
    Vassal of Sweden: Jarldom of Skane/Scania
    Vassal of Germany/Prussia: March of Schleswig
    Under Merchant Republic, controls Norway: Republic of Denmark-Norway
    Islam State Religion: Sultanate of Denmark (Islamic + Sultanate is kind of redundant)

    Holds Norway province, after 1397: Kingdom of Denmark-Norway (maybe remove the date requirement and get rid of Kingdoms of Denmark and Norway? It seems a bit redundant, same with the others)
    Holds Svealand province, after 1397: Kingdom of Denmark-Sweden

    Norway:
    Vassal of Arabs/Cordoba/Morroco: Emirate of Norway
    Vassal of Sweden: Jarldom of Trondelag
    Islam State Religion: Sultanate of Norway
    Holds Denmark province, after 1534: Kingdom of Norway-Denmark
    Holds Svaeland province, after 1209: Kingdom of Norway-Sweden

    Sweden:
    Holds Denmark province, after 1397: Kingdom of Sweden-Denmark
    Holds Norway province, after 1209: Kingdom of Sweden-Norway

    Maybe not have the at least 10 provinces condition for Frankish Empire? Otherwise you'd need to add another 2 conditions to block it off after 843, I think.
    Seems fine otherwise.
     
  14. AbsintheRed

    AbsintheRed Chieftain

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    Yeah, thanks, wasn't careful enough.
    If I add Zhupa and Voivodship to the Scandinavian civs, any special suggestions?

    EDIT: I just realized that you already included some of SanJose's suggestions in the Kiev/Novgorod/Muscovy DCNs. I would have merged more or less the same ones for the initial version, nice :)
    Will update these too before the release.
     
    Last edited: Mar 3, 2017
  15. DC123456789

    DC123456789 Chieftain

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    Not from me. Are you planning to add them as the default names for Bulgarian and Polish/Lithuanian vassals?

    Yeah, I tried to put in the most workable ones. Some of them just didn't have usable triggers, or weren't good as a proper country name.
     
  16. AbsintheRed

    AbsintheRed Chieftain

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    This is what I have currently:
    Scandinavia:
    Novgorod, Kiev, Muscovy:
    England, Scotland, the Netherlands
     
  17. AbsintheRed

    AbsintheRed Chieftain

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    It would be great if you could doule-check everything.
    Also I wasn't really sure for quite a few times what would be the best term, especially for the Netherlands,.

    About the Kingdoms of Norway and Sweden vs. Kingdom of Norway-Sweden vs. Norway-Sweden type names:
    I left the Kingdoms of Norway and Sweden there for now, doesn't really mess up anything. It was easier to leave it than to remove all entries.

    The shorter terms like Norway-Sweden I thought would be good, sound a little more modern for the second part of the timeline, but I'm not insisting on those at all.
    One significant advantage is that it doesn't have the term Kingdom in them, so we could put it above the Islam and Republic conditions if that's the preferred order.
    (Ideally we could add a separate Islamic, Republic, etc name for all variants which have Kingdom in their names, but it obviously won't happen.)

    An a somewhat related mindset I was also thinking about adding simpy Great Britain to some places instead of Kingdom of Great Britain. Would these be too strange in the mod?
    I was also thinking about including United Kingdom of Great Britain instead of Kingdom of Great Britian somewhere.
     
    Last edited: Mar 4, 2017
  18. DC123456789

    DC123456789 Chieftain

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    The issue with shorter terms is that the style clashes significantly with the other dynamic names; the whole point of the mechanic IMO really is to have a flavourful long-form name, so just having "Denmark-Norway" in the midst of "Kingdom of Hungary" and "Crown of Aragon" instead of just "Hungary" and "Aragon" is strange and a bit jarring.

    As far as I can tell "United Kingdom of Great Britain" was used synonymously with "Kingdom of Great Britain", so you could just replace it if you wanted to; I just thought that it would look a bit strange in the midst of all the other "Kingdom of X"s.

    Scotland:
    Vassal of England: Earldom of Lothian/Scotland (just a default name mostly, but Union of the Crowns doesn't really make any sense for a vassal name)
    Controls London province, at least 5 provinces: (United) Kingdom of Great Britain (having it in Scots is inconsistent with how every other DCN works)
    Master of England: (United) Kingdom of Great Britain (same)

    Netherlands:
    Vassal of France: County of Flanders
    Vassal of Germany/Prussia: County of Holland
    Merchant Republic civic, controls Flanders: Republic of the Seventeen United Netherlands
    Merchant Republic civic: Republic of the Seven United Netherlands
    Controls Flanders: United Kingdom of the Netherlands
    Default: Kingdom of the Netherlands
     
  19. AbsintheRed

    AbsintheRed Chieftain

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    Sounds reasonable.
    Anyway, they are finally all updated. Took a lot of time, but all DCNames are up for these 9 civs :)
    Germany, Prussia, Austria will be next batch, but certainly not for 1.5.
     
  20. DC123456789

    DC123456789 Chieftain

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    I'll be sure to have some ideas ready for you. :p
     

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