Dynamic Civ Names

[BSPollux]

Im not happy with the Name for Austria when its a vassal of Germany. 'Southern Germany' is a term used for Bavaria etc. So if one wanted to use that it would have to be 'Southern Southern Germany' and thats just stupid.

Around the 1000 the region was 'owned' by Bavaria and then it was called 'Markgrafschaft Österreich'. I think thats the closest we could get it, if we dont want to aim for 3rd Reich names.

I got it from a wiki article, I'll post the important part here, and the link to the full (but not too long) article afterwards.

"The Marchia orientalis, also called the Bavarian Eastern March (Ostmark[4]) and the March of Austria (Marchiam Austriae), was a prefecture of the Duchy of Bavaria. It was assigned to the Babenberg family in 976. The variant Ostarrîchi is known from a single usage dated 996. Later Medieval documents record the word as either Osterrîche (official) or as Osterlant (folk and poetic usage).[5] The variation Osterrîche is first recorded in 998. Marcha Osterriche appears on a deed granted by Emperor Henry IV and dated 1058.[6]"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Name_of_Austria

 

[Sian]

yeah ... some form of Östmark would probably be better

 

[Michael Vick]

The DCNs can be based on territory held, right?

DCNs for Spain

On Spawn, before founding of first city: Asturian Peoples
(Kingdom of Leon was founded by Asturian Princes)
Holding a city in Galicia only: Kingdom of Leon
Holding cities in Galicia and Leon: Kingdom of Castile and Leon
Holding cities in Galicia, Leon, and Aragon: Kingdom of Spain
Holding cities in Galicia, Leon, Aragon AND 4 or more provinces outside of the "Iberia" region: Spanish Empire

Important DCNs for Vassals of Spain

Portugal Vassal of Spain: Spanish Kingdom of Portugal
(Muslim) Cordoba Vassal of Spain: Emirate of Granada (The actual Emirate of Granada was the entity that paid tribute to Castile for 200 years before the eventual outbreak of war and the fall of Granada)
(Christian) Cordoba Vassal of Spain: Kingdom of Granada
(Respawned) (Muslim) Cordoba Vassal of Spain: Spanish Maghreb
(Respawned) (Christian) Cordoba Vassal of Spain: Spanish Kingdom of Oran
Genoa Vassal of Spain: Spanish Protectorate of Genoa
Venice Vassal of Spain: Spanish Protectorate of Venetia
Dutch Vassals of Spain: Spanish Netherlands
Byzantine Vassals of Spain: Duchies of Athens and Neopatria
France Vassal of Spain: Spanish Kingdom of France
Austria Vassal of Spain: Spanish Kingdom of Austria
Germany Vassal of Spain: Spanish Holy Roman Empire
Arabs Vassals of Spain: Spanish Kingdom of Jerusalem


Before
DCN for Spain as Vassal:
Vassal of Byzantium: Exarchate of Hispania
Vassal of France: French Kingdom of Spain
Vassal of Arabia/Cordoba: al-Ispanya
Vassal of Norse/Sweden: Danish Kingdom of Spain
Vassal of Venice: Venetian Spain
Vassal of Russia/Kiev: Russian Spain
Vassal of Germany: Holy Roman Province of Spain
Vassal of England: Counties of Spain
Vassal of Austria: Habsburg Spain
Vassal of Ottomans: Ottoman Eyalet of Spain
Generic Vassal (all the other civs): Province of Spain

Under Merchant Republic with Islam: Islamic Republic of Spain
Under Merchant Republic: Spanish Republic
Islam State Religion: Emirate of Ispanya

 

[Sian]

When Moscow is a vassal to Norse or Sweden, a more interesting name would be "Varangian Moscow" as the same theme as with "Varangian Kiev"

 

[AbsintheRed]

When Moscow is a vassal to Norse or Sweden, a more interesting name would be "Varangian Moscow" as the same theme as with "Varangian Kiev"

Alright, will include this too with the next DCN update

 

[dragodon64]

Could France after ~900, or starting with the High Middle Ages be renamed Kingdom of France instead of Frankish Empire. It's really odd to hear of the Franks fighting the English or Austrians, or building colonies overseas.

 

[Michael Vick]

Could France after ~900, or starting with the High Middle Ages be renamed Kingdom of France instead of Frankish Empire. It's really odd to hear of the Franks fighting the English or Austrians, or building colonies overseas.

Just about everybody agrees with this one.

 

[Voyelles]

Could France after ~900, or starting with the High Middle Ages be renamed Kingdom of France instead of Frankish Empire. It's really odd to hear of the Franks fighting the English or Austrians, or building colonies overseas.

If you check page 1 of this thread you will find my proposals regarding France:

DCN for France:
Vassal of Byzantium: Exarchate of Gallia
Vassal of Arabia: Emirate of Frangistan
Vassal of Cordoba : Emirate of Poitiers
Vassal of Spain: Viceroyalty of France
Vassal of Norse/Sweden: Duchy of Normandy
Vassal of Venice: Venetian France
Vassal of Russia/Kiev: Russian France
Vassal of Germany: Western Francia
Vassal of England: Duchy of Chinon
Vassal of Austria: Habsburg France
Vassal of Ottomans: Principality of Frangistan
Vassal of Burgundy: Western Francia
Generic Vassal (all the other civs): Province of France

Under Merchant Republic with Islam: French Islamic Republic
Under Merchant Republic: French Republic
Islam State Religion: Sultanate of France

IF Ile-de-France, Picardy, Normandy, Orléans, Aquitania, Burgundy, Provence, Catalonia, Lombardy, Tuscany, Swabia, Lorraine, Saxony controlled : Western Empire [this is UHV 1 + Normandy]
Burgundy AND Germany vassalised : Western Empire

ANY 2 Vassals or more: Empire of France
4 colonial projects completed : Empire of France

Default name (if nothing else is true from the ones above):
from start : Kingdom of the Franks
from 987 AD: Capetian Kingdom of France
from 1489 AD: Valois Kingdom of France
from 1589 AD: Bourbon Kingdom of France

 

[Michael Vick]

ANY 2 Vassals or more: Empire of France
4 colonial projects completed : Empire of France

Default name (if nothing else is true from the ones above):
from start : Kingdom of the Franks
from 987 AD: Capetian Kingdom of France
from 1489 AD: Valois Kingdom of France
from 1589 AD: Bourbon Kingdom of France

I know that Empire de France would be the proper name in French but "French Empire" in English just sounds more natural than "Empire of France".

I like "Kingdom of the Franks", but the royal family names are out of place as then you would have to put family names for all the other civs. I say "Kingdom of France" from 987 AD.

 

[dragodon64]

If you check page 1 of this thread you will find my proposals regarding France:

DCN for France:
Vassal of Byzantium: Exarchate of Gallia
Vassal of Arabia: Emirate of Frangistan
Vassal of Cordoba : Emirate of Poitiers
Vassal of Spain: Viceroyalty of France
Vassal of Norse/Sweden: Duchy of Normandy
Vassal of Venice: Venetian France
Vassal of Russia/Kiev: Russian France
Vassal of Germany: Western Francia
Vassal of England: Duchy of Chinon
Vassal of Austria: Habsburg France
Vassal of Ottomans: Principality of Frangistan
Vassal of Burgundy: Western Francia
Generic Vassal (all the other civs): Province of France

Under Merchant Republic with Islam: French Islamic Republic
Under Merchant Republic: French Republic
Islam State Religion: Sultanate of France

IF Ile-de-France, Picardy, Normandy, Orléans, Aquitania, Burgundy, Provence, Catalonia, Lombardy, Tuscany, Swabia, Lorraine, Saxony controlled : Western Empire [this is UHV 1 + Normandy]
Burgundy AND Germany vassalised : Western Empire

ANY 2 Vassals or more: Empire of France
4 colonial projects completed : Empire of France

Default name (if nothing else is true from the ones above):
from start : Kingdom of the Franks
from 987 AD: Capetian Kingdom of France
from 1489 AD: Valois Kingdom of France
from 1589 AD: Bourbon Kingdom of France

Ah, sorry. I only checked what was written in the spoilered portion of the first post.

I agree with Michael Vick that dynasty names should be avoided where possible and that French Empire sounds better for the English name. I also prefer Frankish Kingdom over Kingdom of the Franks, but that's a minor point.

I don't think we should start throwing the title Emperor around just because a country has 2 vassals. The rank of Empire should be such that only 1 country in Western Europe can hold it at the time. 2 vassals isn't that hard to get, but how about 4 vassals? I realize this is unlikely except in human hands, but I'd personally rather not see a French Empire before the colonial era anyway.

 

[Voyelles]

I know that Empire de France would be the proper name in French but "French Empire" in English just sounds more natural than "Empire of France".

I like "Kingdom of the Franks", but the royal family names are out of place as then you would have to put family names for all the other civs. I say "Kingdom of France" from 987 AD.

Agreed on French Empire.

As for the dynastic names, I suggested these following Absinthe's encouragement to delve deeper. From what I understand there is quite a bit of room to play with, so I would suggest looking at possible dynastic descriptions of other kingdoms, and see how they compare. While not necessary, the Capetian, Valois and Bourbon names give a bit of extra detail without being over the top.

 

[Voyelles]

I don't think we should start throwing the title Emperor around just because a country has 2 vassals. The rank of Empire should be such that only 1 country in Western Europe can hold it at the time. 2 vassals isn't that hard to get, but how about 4 vassals? I realize this is unlikely except in human hands, but I'd personally rather not see a French Empire before the colonial era anyway.

The case for a pre-colonial Empire is a special thing for France, Burgundy and Germany, as all three entities were born of the Carolingian Empire - that of Charlemagne, crowned emperor in 800 ad. Charlemagne's claim was tantamount to claiming the legacy of the Western Roman Empire.
In our timeline, the Empire was revived under German auspices, but what was then Western Francia would have had just as strong a claim.
It follows that should Charlemagne's empire be reformed by either Germany, France or Burgundy, then one should call it the Western Empire.
The main thing to avoid is multiple Western Empires.

 

[dragodon64]

The case for a pre-colonial Empire is a special thing for France, Burgundy and Germany, as all three entities were born of the Carolingian Empire - that of Charlemagne, crowned emperor in 800 ad. Charlemagne's claim was tantamount to claiming the legacy of the Western Roman Empire.
In our timeline, the Empire was revived under German auspices, but what was then Western Francia would have had just as strong a claim.
It follows that should Charlemagne's empire be reformed by either Germany, France or Burgundy, then one should call it the Western Empire.
The main thing to avoid is multiple Western Empires.

Hmm, I definitely see your point. Is it possible to specify title by which countries are held as vassals? If so, I say call it an Empire. But if it's not possible to make that specification, then I think it's best to keep the vassal threshold higher, like 4.

About the dynasty names, I really don't see them fitting for France. Unlike various Muslim states, which were typically named [dynasty][monarchic rank], most Christian states have been named either [monarchic rank] of [country] or [ethnicity][monarchic rank].

 

[Michael Vick]

I still think no dynastic names, because that obligates the mod to have dynasty names for all the other civs, and that can easily get complicated for some of the more obscure civs. Also it would probably be misleading to have two civs exist at the same time called Bourbon France and Bourbon Spain, a player might think that one is the vassal of the other.

I do however agree with Voyelles on the Empire DCNs for early France, Charlemagne's Kingdom could definitely be called an empire, especially if the Franks manage to come close to their first UHV requirements. If any of the three civs mentioned get an area that covers France, Germany, and Burgundy or can vassalize them then without a doubt it should be called the Western Empire.

I think 3 vassals would be a good Kingdom to Empire threshold, or a certain number of provinces + colonies, but the threshold should be higher than it is now.

 

[merijn_v1]

We still need 2 Dawn of Man texts: Kiev, Hungary (Absinthered?).

 

[rrosen]

For Byzantium, Nintz posted:
"Byzantium-

It is the year 500 A.D. After many glorius centuries under Rome, the great Constantine saw fit to split the mighty empire into two parts.

While Rome will always have a place in your people's hearts, Constantinople is now the heart of the most glorius nation on Earth!

Now you, Justinian, rule as the mighty Roman Emperor. Your nation is strong, but the barbarians may be stronger. Your people have faith that you can lead thier mighty nation through the coming storm. Will you prevail, and lead the Byzantine Empire through another 1,000 years of glory? "

 

[Michael Vick]

For Byzantium, Nintz posted:
"Byzantium-

It is the year 500 A.D. After many glorius centuries under Rome, the great Constantine saw fit to split the mighty empire into two parts.

While Rome will always have a place in your people's hearts, Constantinople is now the heart of the most glorius nation on Earth!

Now you, Justinian, rule as the mighty Roman Emperor. Your nation is strong, but the barbarians may be stronger. Your people have faith that you can lead thier mighty nation through the coming storm. Will you prevail, and lead the Byzantine Empire through another 1,000 years of glory? "

I like it. glorius -> glorious* thier -> their*

 

[merijn_v1]

That leaves only 2 left.

 

[ezzlar]

If you can fit the texts without creating scroll bars, that would be good!

 

[merijn_v1]

Oops. I now see I bumped the wrong thread.