Dynamic Civilization Naming - Submit Names Here!

[notger]

I would not rename the indigenic civilizations of America, nor would I rename Babylon or other for that matter any civilization that vanished. They ceased to exist and thats it. What came after them, was no heir to the vanished civs but a new civilization.

The Incans did NOT change to Peru. We happen to call Peru Peru because a new people in that area chose that name as name for their nation.

The Mayans did NOT become Mexicans. A spanish colony became Mexico.

The Babylonians did NOT become the Caliphate of Bagdad or Iraq or whatever. As far as I know, this area was conquered a gazillion times until the Iraq emerged.

It is different with other factions: The HRE did eventually become Germany, so that is more or less correct. England did eventually become Great Britain and Castile did become Spain.

What I want to say: Simply renaming the factions to their modern day geographically inspired names would be wrong. Some factions simply have no dynamic name because they died long before the respective era.

 

[notger]

Then British exiles live there. If you have a better idea, spit it out.

What about Caliphate of Egypt?
It would be weird to have Britain at war with the British protectorate of Egypt, wouldn't it?

 

[Kweeky]

I would not rename the indigenic civilizations of America, nor would I rename Babylon or other for that matter any civilization that vanished. They ceased to exist and thats it. What came after them, was no heir to the vanished civs but a new civilization.

The Incans did NOT change to Peru. We happen to call Peru Peru because a new people in that area chose that name as name for their nation.

The Mayans did NOT become Mexicans. A spanish colony became Mexico.

The Babylonians did NOT become the Caliphate of Bagdad or Iraq or whatever. As far as I know, this area was conquered a gazillion times until the Iraq emerged.

It is different with other factions: The HRE did eventually become Germany, so that is more or less correct. England did eventually become Great Britain and Castile did become Spain.

What I want to say: Simply renaming the factions to their modern day geographically inspired names would be wrong. Some factions simply have no dynamic name because they died long before the respective era.

Well, arguably this *is* Rhye's and Fall of Civilizations. When the Incans fall, the Peruvians rose in their place. Then the Mayans/Aztecs fell, Mexico rose! To save creating additional empires or having the "Independant" flags waving, why not have these Civilizations "become" a different one when they are defeated/respawn?

 

[Quantumf8]

on germany being the HRE, what if rome is still around? it wouldn't really be the HRE then would it, as it cannot rightfully claim to be "the descendants and reclaimers of rome" if rome is still around =p

anyways, here are some roman names

Ancient: Regnum Romanum
Classical: Senatatvs Popvlvsque Romanvs
Medieval: Res Publicae Romana/ Imperium Romanvm
Renaissance: Res Publica Aeternus de Roma /*if theocracy* Sanctvs Imperivm Romanvm
Modern:Res Publica Aeternus de Roma/?

 

[notger]

And what if the Incans do not fall?
Do you want to call them Peruvians, nevertheless?

Don't let the Incans hear this or you are scheduled for the next sacrificing ritual.

 

[Lokolus]

Instead of the HRE you can put the Hanseatic League they were a large trade union in northern Germany that had a military. or the tuetonic order

 

[Rex rgis of Ter]

I think you are getting too particular. The whole point is the rise and Fall of civs. Just because you don't see it doesn't mean there is a wrebellion going inside that city to create Peru. If you want Caliphate, go wild. All I was doing is making suggestions.

 

[TheBladeRoden]

"French Empire"
Ancient: (Pre-Spawn)
Classical: Gaul
Medieval: (Western) Franks
Renaissance: France
Industrial: French Empire
Modern: French Republic

"German Empire"
Ancient: (Pre-Spawn)
Classical: Germania
Medieval: Holy Roman Empire
Renaissance: HRE
Industrial: German Federation or German Empire
Modern: (whatever) Republic of Germany

"American Empire"
Ancient: (Pre-Birth)
Classical: (Pre-Birth)
Medieval: (Pre-Birth)
Renaissance: United States of America/Columbia
Industrial: United States of America/Union
Modern: United States/US/USA

 

[notger]

I think you are getting too particular. The whole point is the rise and Fall of civs. Just because you don't see it doesn't mean there is a wrebellion going inside that city to create Peru. If you want Caliphate, go wild. All I was doing is making suggestions.

I did not mean to offend you.
I only wanted to contribute to the discussion.

Rhye's and Fall is not about exactly recreating history but sticking to a certain historical timeframe. If we were to recreate history exactly, we could watch a movie. I just do not see a reason to rename a possibly thriving civ just because in real life, this civ had crumbled by that time.

I would like to see name-changing depending on
a) civics chosen and
b) re-spawning.

1. Example:
Unless Germany never crumbles, there is no need to ever rename it. It could stay the Holy Roman Empire forever (if Rome is gone, of course). If Germany collapses and respawns, it could be renamed, reflecting that the new civ has a new political structure. It could also be renamed when Germany changed from Monarchy to Representation/Universal Suffrage because that reflects new rulers and a rebellion.

2. Example:
The Incas stay alive throughout the whole game and never change their civics. So why rename them? Obviously they are a theology/monarchy as ever.
But if they change to Representation, one could rename them, e.g. Andes Republic, Incan Republic or whatever.

 

[Rex rgis of Ter]

I would like to see name-changing depending on
a) civics chosen and
b) re-spawning.

That would be fun, if not more complex. However, what civics would you base it on? Names are hard enough. Government and Religious civics would probably be useful. i.e.- Germany starts as HRE, if it adopts representation, universal sufferage or free religion, it becomes the republic of germany. If it adopts police state, it becomes Nazi Germany. If it has all basic civics (barbarism, tribalism, etc.) it becomes Germania. ( I wasn't offended)

 

[LuKo]

That would be fun, if not more complex. However, what civics would you base it on? Names are hard enough. Government and Religious civics would probably be useful. i.e.- Germany starts as HRE, if it adopts representation, universal sufferage or free religion, it becomes the republic of germany. If it adopts police state, it becomes Nazi Germany. If it has all basic civics (barbarism, tribalism, etc.) it becomes Germania. ( I wasn't offended)

I don't like idea Italy=Rome with some civics. Some nations (i.e. Germany) should change name after changing civics and some (Rome, Inca, etc.) after re-spawn (or vassalization).

 

[notger]

That sounds like it.
So we would need plenty of triggers that determine the dynamic name of a civ. And every civ would have its own set of triggers and consequences. And even more complex: We would have to think of ahistoric consequences when e.g. the Mayans adopt Universal Suffrage.

That sounds like a script with an awful lot of if-expressions and even more case/switch-commands (depends on Pythons syntax). Is there anyone volunteering to program this? Is this a project or a mere fantasy?

@LuKo: I just signed your petition. It looks as if I was the only non-polish to support that, except from that guy named "Anonymous" who signed the list at least five times! He seems to be your strongest supporter.

 

[LuKo]

2782 people signed this (not mine-I wasn't even helping to do it) so probably there are more than 6 foreigners.

So we would need plenty of triggers that determine the dynamic name of a civ. And every civ would have its own set of triggers and consequences. And even more complex: We would have to think of ahistoric consequences when e.g. the Mayans adopt Universal Suffrage.

Italian Kingdom was under "Hereditary Rule" as well as Rome Empire (OK, it wasn't "clear" "Hereditary Rule" but that's how it's represented in cIV).

 

[notger]

Well then it would only be "Italy" if Rome respawns after 1800 AD or something like that.

Again: Is there anybody wanting to program this or is this fancy?

 

[onedreamer]

I think it doesn't make sense to call Rome Italy if it is in all effects still Rome. The UU would still be Praetorian, the UB would still be Forum, the city names would be in Latin and not Italian, the flag would remain Roman and last but not least, the leader would still be Roman. Why call it Italy ? Rome and Italy are NOT the same thing, they aren't even remotely similar. They only share the "spawn" area.

 

[Lokolus]

The Romans and the Italians are the same people their the Italians are the descendants of the Romans its not like the Aztecs and the Mexicans because most of the mexicans are the descendants of the spanish not the aztecs.

 

[onedreamer]

Oh... the same people. Really ? I am Italian and I don't feel like being Roman. And my family doesn't descend from Romans. Italy was invaded by barbarians and the people mixed. Pretty much the same as Mexico. But if you are so sure of the contrary, can you make me understand on what do you base your statement ? Can you make a list of things that Roman and Italian people would have in common ?

 

[LuKo]

Well then it would only be "Italy" if Rome respawns after 1800 AD or something like that.

If it respawn any time it should be Italy.

The Romans and the Italians are the same people their the Italians are the descendants of the Romans its not like the Aztecs and the Mexicans because most of the mexicans are the descendants of the spanish not the aztecs.

onedreamer is Italian and I don't feel like he is Roman I agree that [Italian situation is] "Pretty much the same as Mexico". But it's only game and it's better to see in modern times Italy (even without pizzeria...) than Rome.

I think it doesn't make sense to call Rome Italy if it is in all effects still Rome. The UU would still be Praetorian, the UB would still be Forum, the city names would be in Latin and not Italian, the flag would remain Roman and last but not least, the leader would still be Roman. Why call it Italy ? Rome and Italy are NOT the same thing, they aren't even remotely similar. They only share the "spawn" area.

UU will be long time gone when Rome will respawn (and Italian military wasn't adorable enough to have UU ), UB effect pretty much match Italy (bonus to GP). Greece have Alexander as a most modern leader- leaders aren't important.
Italy deserve to be as a separate nation but some nations would better fit RFC (of course Poland , Sweden, etc.). Roman Italy will allow some scenarios- i.e. IIWW so Rome should have dynamic name

 

[Rex rgis of Ter]

Just adding something on. I don't know if this is possible, but could leaders change due to civics as well as civ names. e.g. When greece has an absolute monarchy (despotism, herdeitary rule, police state) the leader would be Alexander. While Greece is a republic (representation, universal suffrage) it appears as Pericles.

 

[Lokolus]

Oh... the same people. Really ? I am Italian and I don't feel like being Roman. And my family doesn't descend from Romans. Italy was invaded by barbarians and the people mixed. Pretty much the same as Mexico. But if you are so sure of the contrary, can you make me understand on what do you base your statement ? Can you make a list of things that Roman and Italian people would have in common ?

Wow, I didnt want to make anyone angry. But I think that because Rome was centred at Italy there is no one better to represent it, about the Mexican situation the spanish killed more than 90% percent of the population of the Aztecs so saying that Mexico and the Aztecs are the same is ridiculous, and you want a list? Italian is a Romance language and came directly out of Latin. the capital of Italy is Rome, the Romans lived in Italy like the Italians and I quote from wikipedia: "Most Italians are descended from the Romans" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Italians#Origins_of_Italian_people

Veni, vidi, vici