Afforess
The White Wizard
Not to mention, I already made something like this, the Heavy Gate, for my castle modmod. (Dang, that was a long time ago...)
Early Buildings
- Thread starter generalstaff
- Start date
Not to mention, I already made something like this, the Heavy Gate, for my castle modmod. (Dang, that was a long time ago...)
Hydromancerx
C2C Modder
@Firepit
I really think the firepit should be included since its used long after civilization has been established. Look at cultures like the Native Americans who would do tribal dances around the fire or European cultures that would have bonfires or funeral pyres for celebrations and honoring the dead? Even later in history there would be burring of witches in fires or modern day the "Burning Man" festival. In short the firepit not only predates civilization but continues on and evolves long after civilization has been founded.
@Stone Worker's Hut
I ment "stone workers" as "Stone Tool Makers", not "Masons" or "Quarrymen". Though it might be good to have huts for those who dig stone (aka Quarrymen) and those who build with stone (aka Masons). But what i was talking about was those who make stone tools out of it (aka Flint Knappers).
@City Gate
Perhaps it could be upgraded when high walls get upgraded. For instance you can build "city gate" if you have "city walls" but must build "high city walls" if you upgrade to "high city gate". And then the "high city gate" will replace "city gate".
@Sculptor's Workshop
Looks good.
This was to be synergistic with it. Yours is what gave me the idea. In general you would have an outer gate (aka city gate) and then an inner gate (aka the gatehouse).
@Potter's Hut
Do you think it should be limited to river cities since they would have access to muddy clay on the river banks? That way it would give some balance to getting a resource out of nowhere. And what about the wheel giving some sort of production benefit from allowing the invention of the "potter's wheel"?
Afforess
The White Wizard
Dang. It's bad when I can't even remember the name that I coded for it. Your right, it's a gatehouse. If I remember correctly, it makes you lose a trade route, but gain defense.
generalstaff
Steadfast
I handled cremation with the Graveyard by having a 10% production bonus with pottery (urns). Also, the witch burnings were general punishments for heresy (many reformers of the church who disliked papal power where burned); fire was used as a "purifying" method of execution.
However, I think if I am going to add it, it will be very simple and quickly obsoleted. Here is an early plan.
-Firepit
+10% Culture (With few Culture producing buildings and Culture negating civics, this is rather balanced, as I found out from the Mystic's Hut)
Tech: None (You can build it as soon as you start no matter your civilization)
Obsolete: Monotheism (Represents end of "Paganism")
Note: No "meat" food resource bonus since the Health bonus assumes use of fire.
OK. The reason I took that hut in that direction had to do with my Modular Civics Buildings. That module includes a Warrior's Hut, which gives Melee Units +2 EXP. Combining that with the original Stone Worker's hut would result in Ancient Age units beginning with 3XP, 4 XP with Monarchy (Barracks level).
Dealing with Gate upgrades would mean dealing with a python file I believe a few other modders here use, which requires careful communication to prevent conflicts. The other way to handle this would be to just have the City Gate require High Walls, a simple solution. However, without Walls decreasing Trade Routes or Trade Route Yield, I see no reason for needing a City Gate (the purpose of which would be to counter any penalties caused by Walls).
Also, if you want an early Trade Route bonus on the cheap, the upcoming 1.1 version of Modular Civics Buildings includes a Caravan Post (Barter, +25% Yield). I have tested it and it is both balancing and doesn't force you into running Slavery.
I do like this idea and will include it in the next version.
The potter's wheel is already included since the Pottery tech requires The Wheel tech.
Hydromancerx
C2C Modder
@Firepit
Fair enough. I am just glad it will be represented since it is such an important part to human history.
@Stoneworker's Hut
I totally understand the balance issue. I just wanted to make sure you knew it was intended to be a place in which they crafted stone tools, not mined for stone or constructed building with stone.
@City Walls
Ok that sounds like a good compromise. Go with it requiring high walls then. As for trade use the stats you think would be most balanced. But I was modeling it after the Castle Mod Gatehosue which helped increased the defense of the walls but took away trade. I am guessing because they would have to open and close the gates all the time to let trade in.
The Gatehouse in the Castle Mod has the stats of ...
Gatehouse
Cost 75
Requires: High Walls, Castle
As you can see this is more for high walls. Which is why i was going for the normal walls. We could always solve the gate problem by making it obsolete when high walls come.
@Potter's Hut
Cool. I am glad you like the idea. Oh and I forgot about the wheel being a req for pottery. That solves that problem.
Fair enough. I am just glad it will be represented since it is such an important part to human history.
@Stoneworker's Hut
I totally understand the balance issue. I just wanted to make sure you knew it was intended to be a place in which they crafted stone tools, not mined for stone or constructed building with stone.
@City Walls
Ok that sounds like a good compromise. Go with it requiring high walls then. As for trade use the stats you think would be most balanced. But I was modeling it after the Castle Mod Gatehosue which helped increased the defense of the walls but took away trade. I am guessing because they would have to open and close the gates all the time to let trade in.
The Gatehouse in the Castle Mod has the stats of ...
Gatehouse
Cost 75
Requires: High Walls, Castle
- +5% Maintenance
- -1 Trade Routes
- 15% Defense (Except vs. Units with high explosives)
- +25% production speed for Protective leaders.
- Obsolete with Explosives (Except Defense Bonus)
As you can see this is more for high walls. Which is why i was going for the normal walls. We could always solve the gate problem by making it obsolete when high walls come.
@Potter's Hut
Cool. I am glad you like the idea. Oh and I forgot about the wheel being a req for pottery. That solves that problem.
generalstaff
Steadfast
One last comment about the Firepit, it will be added, but it will not have city graphics, only a unique button. Paved Roads and Single Issue Party are an example of this.
OK, now we are getting somewhere good with the outer walls. Using your posts as a guide, here is my plan.
Gatehouse
+5% Maintenance
-1 Trade Routes
-25% Trade Route Yield
+15% Defense (Except vs. Units with high explosives)
+20% Spy Defense
Double production speed for Protective leaders.
Obsolete with Explosives (Except Defense Bonus) (or whatever tech High Walls are obsolete with)
Req: High Walls
Tech: Engineering (or whatever tech High Walls are available with)
Note: Will give a slight military population boost (like Barracks)
City Gate
+1 Trade Route
+30% Trade Route Yield
Obsolete: Obsolete with Explosives (Except Defense Bonus) (or whatever tech High Walls are obsolete with)
Req: Gatehouse, Forge.
Tech: Machinery
This plan will give you extra defense and a net gain of +5% Trade Route Yield at the cost of +5% Maintenance. Also, the extra Spy Defense should also not penalize you for wanting to run Sewers for early unhealthy cities. These two buildings will not have city graphics, but will have unique buttons.
All of these buildings will be a post-2.8 release.
OK, now we are getting somewhere good with the outer walls. Using your posts as a guide, here is my plan.
Gatehouse
+5% Maintenance
-1 Trade Routes
-25% Trade Route Yield
+15% Defense (Except vs. Units with high explosives)
+20% Spy Defense
Double production speed for Protective leaders.
Obsolete with Explosives (Except Defense Bonus) (or whatever tech High Walls are obsolete with)
Req: High Walls
Tech: Engineering (or whatever tech High Walls are available with)
Note: Will give a slight military population boost (like Barracks)
City Gate
+1 Trade Route
+30% Trade Route Yield
Obsolete: Obsolete with Explosives (Except Defense Bonus) (or whatever tech High Walls are obsolete with)
Req: Gatehouse, Forge.
Tech: Machinery
This plan will give you extra defense and a net gain of +5% Trade Route Yield at the cost of +5% Maintenance. Also, the extra Spy Defense should also not penalize you for wanting to run Sewers for early unhealthy cities. These two buildings will not have city graphics, but will have unique buttons.
All of these buildings will be a post-2.8 release.
Hydromancerx
C2C Modder
I don't think you understand. Afforess ALREADY MADE A GATEHOUSE.
Afforess's Castle Improvement Mod
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=325263
The stats i posted were the stats of the gatehouse he made. We don't need another gatehouse!!!
Afforess
The White Wizard
I thought that Gatehouse looked familiar...
Well, theirs an easy way to go about this, but it's a little XML hack-y if you want the Gatehouse. Just use exactly the same name as my Gatehouse, with the same BuildingClass and Building Type, and they should overwrite one another if a player has both. No one will notice the difference, except for us modmoder's. And our gatehouses's are pretty much identical.
Well, theirs an easy way to go about this, but it's a little XML hack-y if you want the Gatehouse. Just use exactly the same name as my Gatehouse, with the same BuildingClass and Building Type, and they should overwrite one another if a player has both. No one will notice the difference, except for us modmoder's. And our gatehouses's are pretty much identical.
Hydromancerx
C2C Modder
I can't believe I forgot this before...
Beadmaker's Hut
Cost 120
Happiness: +1
Requires: Trade
Special Abilities
Notes
- Not sure what to make it obsolete.
- Here is info on beads http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bead
- Beads were important for many societies especially ones like the Native Americans.
Beadmaker's Hut
Cost 120
Happiness: +1
Requires: Trade
Special Abilities
- +2%
with Ivory (Bone Beads) - +2% with Pearls
- +2% with Clam (Shells Beads)
- +2% with Pottery (Clay Beads)
- +2% with Gems
- +2% with Glassware (Glass Beads)
Notes
- Not sure what to make it obsolete.
- Here is info on beads http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bead
- Beads were important for many societies especially ones like the Native Americans.
Afforess
The White Wizard
I can't believe I forgot this before...
Beadmaker's Hut
Cost 120
Happiness: +1
Requires: Trade
Special Abilities
- +2%
- +2%
- +2%
- +2%
- +2%
- +2%
Notes
- Not sure what to make it obsolete.
- Here is info on beads http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bead
- Beads were important for many societies especially ones like the Native Americans.
Just curious, isn't this the same as the Bakery?
Supercheese
Zeppelin Commander
Afforess
The White Wizard
I believe it is a beadmaker's hut, not a breadmaker's hut.
D'oh. I blame the time. It's nearly midnight here... Carry on then.
Hydromancerx
C2C Modder
generalstaff
Steadfast
OK, I'll just rename it; I cannot think of any new names off hand at the moment (Maybe renaming it to "City Gate" and the current "City Gate" to Portcullis (which would require me to complete change the Buttons I have made), thoughts?). Also, the one I added adds a Spy Defense bonus in addition to the ones from Afforess' mod (I was also thinking of adding adding a Foreign Trade Route Penalty, which would be 100% negated by the City Gate/Portcullis, and a minor Bombard Defense bonus). The Castle Mod represents inner fortifications, where as the High Wall based additions represent outer fortifications.
I can't believe I forgot this before...
Beadmaker's Hut
Cost 120
Happiness: +1
Requires: Trade
Special Abilities
- +2%
- +2%
- +2%
- +2%
- +2%
- +2%
Notes
- Not sure what to make it obsolete.
- Here is info on beads http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bead
- Beads were important for many societies especially ones like the Native Americans.
I think I would change the Commerce bonuses to Happiness bonuses (Helpful when playing with Revolutions on Snail games) and removing the building Happiness, with Clam (representing Cowries, which were used as early fiat currency) and Gems providing +5% Commerce each.
Tech: Trade (I was originally thinking no prereq tech, but the more I think about it, the more I agree that you are right since Trade represents a minimum level of crafting)
Obsolete: Guilds (Same as Basketweaver's Hut, for some reason, this tech seems appropriate)
Hydromancerx
C2C Modder
Wait so what exactly are you doing? Are you making it depend upon Afforess's mod or having it a stand alone gate that depends only on the high walls? And what would be the stats of this "City Gate" building?
Hmm. So only clams and gems woud have commercial value while clay, glass, pearls and ivory would be happiness? I would think pearls and ivory would have some commercial value. What if clay and glass beads gave happiness while the rest gave commerce?
As for the Tech Req and Tech Obsolete agree both of those work nicely.
generalstaff
Steadfast
Sorry to confuse. This module is designed to be played as a stand alone, but the discussion we are having is flavor and balance compatibility with Afforess' mod. The current stats are (please note that the current names, subject to change, are in quotes):
-"Gatehouse"
+5% Maintenance
-1 Trade Routes
-25% Trade Route Yield
-30% Foreign Trade Route Yield
+15% Defense (Except vs. Units with high explosives)
-10% Bombard Damage
+20% Spy Defense
Req: High Walls
Tech: Siege Warfare
Double production speed for Protective leaders.
Obsolete: Rifling (Except Defense Bonus)
-"City Gate"
+1 Trade Route
+30% Trade Route Yield
+30% Foreign Trade Route Yield
Req: Gatehouse, Iron.
Tech: Machinery
Obsolete: Rifling
NOTE: Rifling is the obsolete tech is because it obsoletes High Walls in 2.7. If the obsolete tech is changing in 2.8, I will change it in the module.
Any suggestions on renaming or stat changes are appreciated. However, keep in mind that the "Gatehouse" is designed to force the building of the "City Gate," which is the building you suggested that I am trying to work in.
Pearls and Ivory already give a bonus at the Baazar, but I could boost that by having them give a 2% or 3% bonus (So that they would give total a 6% or 7% Commerce bonus) in addition to happiness.
Glad the techs work out.
Hydromancerx
C2C Modder
Ok So the only problem is the names. Since we don't want to have 2 things named the same thing if you have both mods. I think the "Gatehouse" should be named "Wall Gatehouse". In addition I think Afforess should change his "Gatehouse" to the name of "Castle Gatehouse". That way the 2 are not confused with each other.
The % amount is not that important, as long as it gives some commercial benefit. So 2 or 3% is fine with me.
Afforess
The White Wizard
Done.
Hydromancerx
C2C Modder
Thanks Afforess. 
RealityKey
Knight of Elenore
- Joined
- Jan 27, 2006
- Messages
- 47
Okay now I can post *scratches her head* Thanks to the mod who fixed the problem
Is there a 2.8 beta version or is it the 2.71 version?
Is there a 2.8 beta version or is it the 2.71 version?
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