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[GS] Early game fun with "weak" civs

Discussion in 'Civ6 - General Discussions' started by Mr_PeaCH, Oct 22, 2019.

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  1. Mr_PeaCH

    Mr_PeaCH Chieftain

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    I've been having more and more fun recently setting up situations where some of the civs often thought of as "weak" or "inferior" can shine. Wanted to put the word out, maybe stir some like-minded players, and hopefully get an exchange of other interesting early game mechanisms people are aware of.

    (And I stress "early game", as in first 100 - 200 turns or so. Also, often I'll slow the game down by 50% to enjoy the early UUs, etc.)

    Two civs that I think don't get enough credit as fun civs to play are Norway and Egypt. The knock on Norway tends to be their UUs aren't very useful. While I do find the Berserker too 'niche', the Longship with the speed of construction and the ability to pillage tiles that are next to the coast from the sea is really something. As is being able to go out to sea earlier than other civs (except Maori).

    For Egypt I cannot find much praise for their Maryanu Archer UU; however their ability to not have floodplains flooding cause any damage is pretty cool, coupled with bonuses to building districts and wonders next to rivers (with or without floodplains). The placement of sphinxes is a fun exercise also.

    What helps Norway and Longships strategy obviously is a map with lots of islands, lots of coastline. Also maybe hand-pick some opponents who do not aspire to oceanic conquests. But it isn't only that Longships can pillage from the sea AND get culture, science or faith bonuses to pillaging; any military unit can pillage and recieve the bonuses. Finally, when it is time to upgrade Longships to Caravels, you still can pillage tiles from the sea. I'm finding that, especially with the policy for 50% bonus to pillaging rewards, Norway can have great success in keeping up in the Tech and Culture advancement simply by pillaging their surrounding civs.

    With Egypt, my strategy is decidedly more peaceful. What I like to do here is come up with a map that has more desert (Hot), less vegetation (Dry) and fewer hills (Old). Then try and get a start position with a network of rivers with floodplains that will allow 3 or 4 cities to thrive. Oh! And don't forget to turn disasters up to 3 or 4 since you'll be wanting your rivers to flood again and again and drive up the food and production in these tiles. It is extremely satisfying to watch vast swaths of farmland feeding off each other's adjacency bonuses, being regularly fertilized and improved, and here and there drop your districts, your wonders, and of course, your sphinxes.
     
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  2. qadams

    qadams Bohemian

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    Yeah, I've had fun with Egypt that way too. It's especially cool when you can find a good spot for combining aqueducts, dams, and IZ's... something like this.
     
  3. bengalryan9

    bengalryan9 Warlord

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    I think people have come around to Norway lately. I don't think it's considered a weak civ any more.
     
  4. KayAU

    KayAU King

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    I don't think Norway is weak anymore. The Longship is pretty great IMO, and Harald's ability is considered strong enough to score 2nd in the leader ability elimination thread. The Stave Church is...well, it's okay, I tend to build temples anyway, this one is better than the standard one. The Berserker is not good, but overall, Norway is a pretty strong civ these days, good for both pillaging and naval dominance, as it should be.

    Egypt is also a fair bit better than it used to be. The Maryannu has been improved, and while it still pales compared to the other mobile ranged unit, the incredible Pitati Archer, it is pretty alright. The Sphinx has always been good, and both the leader and civ abilities are decent after recent buffs. Egypt is still below average in pure power, but they have some things going for them.

    When I think of weak civs, the Khmer spring to mind...I still kind of like them, but I wish they could tweak them to be a bit more impressive. I mean, would an unique Aqueduct replacement be too much to ask?
     
  5. acluewithout

    acluewithout Deity

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    Beserker is a bit disappointing. Stave Church is... a building... which you can build, I guess. But it’s fine. Norway feels a bit Meme with its pillaging ability TBH, but it’s certainly a strong ability.

    Khmer are quite good. You need to synergise them well with a Pantheon. Their Missionary / Relic thing is also odd but Relics are powerful so it’s not a terrible ability really. The key thing is to not try founding a Religion with them - they’re better if you just get a Religion spread to you and leverage that.

    Agree re Egypt. Very fun civ.
     
  6. Pietato

    Pietato Emperor

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    Egypt's problem is too much reliance on floodplains which might not flood, plus you need to build on them as well.
     
  7. Lily_Lancer

    Lily_Lancer Emperor

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    Who can resist the power of Maryannu Chariot Archers?

    The only Civ that can rush Chandragputa in ancient on online speed and Deity difficulty.

    Screen Shot 2019-10-23 at 8.50.08 AM.png
     
    Mr_PeaCH likes this.
  8. Victoria

    Victoria Regina Supporter

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    Egypt is by no means dull and often she it perhaps not used to the best of her advantages. She is in the open so the chariot is great now it has been buffed. And the Sphinx is undervalued. Even the trade routes are useful.
    Norway’s pillage by land and longship exploration is great, especially pillaging goody huts. I played a game with him last night, sent 2 longships off and found Scotland dotted along a coast, pillaged all his campuses but then he plopped units on them and xbows started appearing (deity) but the science boost was huge. However attacking by land and pillaging was just crazy powerful.
    I struggle playing a game where 100-200 turns are early. Played a few epic games to get the feel for speed and how it works, just not for me.
     
  9. Lily_Lancer

    Lily_Lancer Emperor

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    Notice that you're having fun with them just because they're actually not "weak" Civs. Both Egpyt and Norway are top tier Civs for me.

    If you really wish to have "fun" with "weak" Civs you shall try Canada or Georgia.
     
  10. Karmah

    Karmah King Supporter

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    Ok , I know you spend quite some time mastering the snowball start and I'm not sure what turn 46 translates to in normal (69 ? 92?) but still you have at least 5 cities , 15 chariot and like 10 improved tiles (that's like three or four builders) .That's the 15 chariots ofc that is impressive. I'm not sure I know how to do that :)
     
  11. LMT

    LMT Warlord

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    Disagree that either Canada or Georgia are weak. Georgia can get a lot of envoys. That, coupled with religious unity (the belief that grats extra envoys when spreading religion to CS) is strong.

    Canada. O Canada. On of my favorites due to it's truly unique ability. Imagine there's a country (it isn't hard to do) with nothing to kill or die for. I've been able to play on higher difficulty levels with them having only a handful of antiquated troops. Saves gold, production that can be used to make settlers, buildings, etc.

    I don't think any civ is really weak if you play to their strengths.
     
  12. Pietato

    Pietato Emperor

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    France is weak.
     
  13. Lily_Lancer

    Lily_Lancer Emperor

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    Nope. Catherine is not weak. She has a decent strength bonus. Also the early spy and the free level is good enough in GS.

    Eleanor? Yes she is weak. Even her England is weak.

    What?
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 25, 2019
  14. LMT

    LMT Warlord

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    If they get a religion and spread it to city-states.
     
  15. Victoria

    Victoria Regina Supporter

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    A magnus chop with a bonus card is more than 50% because the bonus card is applied to the magnus chop rather than the real base. The game is filled with such oddities.
     
  16. NukeAJS

    NukeAJS King

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    I think people have had a come to jesus moment with Norway and Egypt. Georgia is generally realizes as the worst civ. Of course, you could spawn next to 7 CSs and dominate your continent with your religion, but that's such a narrow situation that it is exactly why they're considered the worst civ.
     
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  17. Lily_Lancer

    Lily_Lancer Emperor

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    Yes Magnus chop is great.

    However on this Egpyt game I haven't chopped, at least haven't chopped for Maryannu until T46 actually. This is the Egpyt v. Chandra map I put on the forum, and I just load from a very old save.

    I start with 2 cities(standard builder-settler start) and get the 3rd one via religious settlement. Each city has ~10 production and capital have 20, so each city produces a chariot archer in 3~4 turns while the capital produces one every 2 turns(of course with +50%). And I start producing chariot archers since T10. The key is that chariot archers are so early and so cheap .

    You words seem always misleading. Please do not try to explain others' game based on your own view, please. This may make some ignorant audience think you fully understand my strategy, however we both know that this is not the case.

    You feel more and more like a guy named Boyan Sun, who does not know how to play game but always refers to "this is how others play". If you blame him for incorrectness then he says "this is how others play so you're not blaming me and I don't know." If you don't blame him then he begin blaming you, again with the word "Others don't play like you".

    On this forum whenever he wants to blame someone he just says "The Chinese don't play like you.", also I can imagine on Chinese forums he will just say "The CivFanatics don't play like you." to his opposers. In fact he himself doesn't know anything about gameplay, however he can make any personal incorrect comments pretending there are some "other people" following such comments. Really Wise Strategy:crazyeye::crazyeye::crazyeye::crazyeye::crazyeye::crazyeye::crazyeye:

    If you know better players just let them out and teach me on that Hungary map, instead of trying to show me(or any other people) "what better players may think".

    I appreciate your own experiments since that is your own experience and that values. It is your own experiments or theory that you always know the correctness.

    No, as for abilities, Canada is the worst, followed by Kongo(though Kongo have really good starting bias so they're not really weak in games). Georgia? At least it is not negative.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 25, 2019
  18. Victoria

    Victoria Regina Supporter

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    That explains a lot
     
  19. Karmah

    Karmah King Supporter

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    Yeah right good old chop. I remember reading somewhere that chariot class was tied to either ranged or cav or both. I'm sure someone here has a better memory.
     
  20. Victoria

    Victoria Regina Supporter

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    About the same, I had a feeling it could be done by both cards but never validated it, i think someone else did. I'll check tonight.
     

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