Earth 18 civs. Inca conquest?

[Nexlev]

Played a little bit more last night. The leapfrog in tech with Inca is pretty incredible. When I met the old world I was well behind, though well positioned, in tech. Basically one tech later I'm caught up and my research is screaming along. After libbing Scientific Method I was the first to Physics, then I went for Communism where Saladin beat me by a turn. Teched up to steam power and democracy quickly. Started a golden age to switch techs once happiness became an issue, currently teching electricity. Still behind in power but I'm catching up quickly, and China/Russia/Persia are artificially powerful with high power peace vassals (it appears). I think I can land a sizeable force if I wait until industrialism and get my cities set up quick enough. Question is whether it'll be fast enough to beat a spaceship or diplo win (hindu lovefest).

As far as spawnbusting I tried to spawnbust as quickly as I reasonably could but I was also shooting for wonders and probably built up my cities too much as well. Still, I didn't end up with much veteran units. I have one 10xp quecha for the heroic epic and 1 9xp axeman for medic. A copy barb cities popped up in dark spots and I got one before they had longbows. The other was on a hill and I decided to wait until I had trebs to take.

I would have had better production without the emphasis on islands and coast, but the way I've played it my economy is killing it.

 

[traius]

The upkeep would be horible. I think only option would be moving capital to North Ameria. Amazon cottages are good, but at beginning, cutting down jungle in Amazon is pain. At later stages of game, producing many workers to cut down the jungle is much easier.

North and south america re one landmass for upkeep purposes.

 

[Oldlamehand]

North and south america re one landmass for upkeep purposes.

Yes, but if you have your capital at coast near starting position, and conquer Monty, your cities in north america will be too far from capital.

 

[Seraiel]

Anything new from drewisfat and his Deity-approach?

 

[lindsay40k]

Had another go on Monarch. TGL was OK, but I'm starting to doubt its utility. IND makes it whippable, but settling the east earlier seems better. Oracle CoL seems good, as if Monty fails to get Judaism, there'll be no religion and no shrine income to be had. But TGL made Cuzco produce so many GPP, my Scientist farm didn't pop one before my second (pretty much useless) GPro. (A GM would have been really handy for a Currency bulb, but I really don't like coin flips.) This made for a late Academy in the cottage capital in the east.

I got Feudalism and Construction and had a crack at Monty... didn't turn out well, as his own Longbows arrived shortly afterwards, and Tenochtitlan was a rubbish prize - needed to take out four more cities to work any tiles, no coastline for the settled GG to produce a decent navy later on.

But... an interesting quirk happened. My first capture was in Panama City (RL location). His SoD stopped playing with Roosevelt and came down to drive me out. I abandoned the city by sea, and sailed up to Tenochtitlan. A deep insertion force of four Longbows with Guerrilla II and an Axeman with Charge and a CII Shock Axeman standing on a chokepoint hill seemed to keep his SoD from marching north to deal with my attack stack, camping in Panama forever. This seemed to completely ruin the AI's ability to organise itself, and though I quit after a disastrous series of attempts to capture other cities and seeing Old World AIs starting on Liberalism before I even had Paper, it set me thinking that this could be a quirk worth exploiting next time round.

 

[drewisfat]

IDK when I'm going to have enough spare time to play
Got so much going on right now.

 

[Soupturtle]

My game on immortal has been going slowly, as I haven't had much time to play. Today, I started my conquest, in about 1740, by eliminating Elizabeth, taking the English main island and Iceland (Ireland is German). I'm tech leader, although Saladin has artillery and rocketry on me, but I have flight, radio and industrialism on him. Also, he has a massively higher GNP than me even when I'm in a golden age, and about twice the 'soldiers' (in the demographics screen). But I'm leader in production in the demographics screen and ahead on military techs, so I'm still hopeful.

I'd also like to share a screenshot of what aggressive AI has done to the old world in this game. A Russian empire that sprawls from Paris to the Chinese South-East coast. An Arabian empire that includes Berlin, Bombay, Western Australia and Namibia. Persians in Siberia, South-East Asia, Egypt, and even in North-America (they took two cities from Roosevelt, before being halted by me gifting Monty rifling). I do feel sorry for Qin. I bribed him to attack Cyrus, and he got absolutely slaughtered. But the upshot is that Catherine took so much land from him that she broke her vassalage to Cyrus, so I guess she can be the balancing power now.

I'm going to try a brief war with Russia to take Paris (hopefully Catherine will accept peace quickly), and then take the fight to Saladin and his four or so vassals. I'm just hoping the vassals don't fancy a fight too much. Any thoughts on whether I should try a gradual land war conquering Europe towards the middle east, or try to do a naval assault straight at Mecca? The shrine in Mecca should be the key to ruining Saladin's unbelievable economy, but I'm thinking the naval assault is probably too risky, as he does have twice the 'soldiers' I do, and I have no idea where his units are, except for a sizable but outdated stack in Barcelona. He could also have any number of destroyers, and Mecca cannot be hit on the turn of declaration.

Also, I've never really played with nuclear missiles, except once when I was cleaning up a conquest game and no one else had a chance in hell of getting them. To be honest, I'm pretty scared of being nuked. Should I be looking to use them in this game? Any tips on using them effectively?

 

[traius]

My game on immortal has been going slowly, as I haven't had much time to play. Today, I started my conquest, in about 1740, by eliminating Elizabeth, taking the English main island and Iceland (Ireland is German). I'm tech leader, although Saladin has artillery and rocketry on me, but I have flight, radio and industrialism on him. Also, he has a massively higher GNP than me even when I'm in a golden age, and about twice the 'soldiers' (in the demographics screen). But I'm leader in production in the demographics screen and ahead on military techs, so I'm still hopeful.

I'd also like to share a screenshot of what aggressive AI has done to the old world in this game. A Russian empire that sprawls from Paris to the Chinese South-East coast. An Arabian empire that includes Berlin, Bombay, Western Australia and Namibia. Persians in Siberia, South-East Asia, Egypt, and even in North-America (they took two cities from Roosevelt, before being halted by me gifting Monty rifling). I do feel sorry for Qin. I bribed him to attack Cyrus, and he got absolutely slaughtered. But the upshot is that Catherine took so much land from him that she broke her vassalage to Cyrus, so I guess she can be the balancing power now.

I'm going to try a brief war with Russia to take Paris (hopefully Catherine will accept peace quickly), and then take the fight to Saladin and his four or so vassals. I'm just hoping the vassals don't fancy a fight too much. Any thoughts on whether I should try a gradual land war conquering Europe towards the middle east, or try to do a naval assault straight at Mecca? The shrine in Mecca should be the key to ruining Saladin's unbelievable economy, but I'm thinking the naval assault is probably too risky, as he does have twice the 'soldiers' I do, and I have no idea where his units are, except for a sizable but outdated stack in Barcelona. He could also have any number of destroyers, and Mecca cannot be hit on the turn of declaration.

Also, I've never really played with nuclear missiles, except once when I was cleaning up a conquest game and no one else had a chance in hell of getting them. To be honest, I'm pretty scared of being nuked. Should I be looking to use them in this game? Any tips on using them effectively?

When you nuke, it's all about the first strike. Hit your target so hard his stacks (including nukes) should be wiped out, and either coast-raid or paradrop into the empty cities to completely wipe your target from the game on the first turn of the nuclear exchange if possible, or cripple them by leaving them with only 1-3 nuclear wasteland cities and vassalize them. Then build up nukes and do it again to someone else. Nukes can allow one-turn capitulations, allowing you to avoid any retaliation.

 

[lindsay40k]

There is another option… the Attacko option.

No, hear me out.

The likely candidates for Old World Holy Cities are in fairly central locations. They are easily dogpiled, and difficult to bubblewrap.

Geography suggests a bulldozing conquest that starts in Spain or over the Behring Strait. Driving along, city by city, with a clear border.

What I'm saying is, where a holy city is coastal like Mecca, there's an argument to send a fleet of six Marines, six Fighters and five Battleships to simply raze it and deny the runaway their mountain of tithes that will require a stack to keep stable and keep out stacks.

I dunno. I'm RPing an aggressive Toku game atm. Probably best to ignore me XD

 

[Soupturtle]

Burn Mecca? An interesting thought. By the time I could take Mecca conventionally I'll probably be winning anyway and not in need of any more gold, so it's probably not a bad strategic move at all to take it out early without trying to keep it. But the problem is that it's more than five tiles inside cultural borders from any direction. So the marines cannot come in on the turn I declare war, and that means I have to bring enough ships to withstand whatever number of destroyers Saladin has lying around. I'm guessing it's a large number.

 

[lindsay40k]

Maybe draw out the Arabian navy in the wrong direction with a couple of distraction ships? As long as the strike force is one turn closer to Mecca than Saladin's fleet, it can do its job.

Easiest done if there's a neutral or friendly Suez, but E18 doesn't seem to lead the AI by the nose into making such a city.

Edit: Worth noting that a Drydock and three of settled GGs, warlike Civics and the Pentagon will unlock ships with +2 movement.

 

[lindsay40k]

(I would just like to assure any of my Muslim mates and future employers who may be reading this thread that this in-game proposition in no way reflects my personal political views)

 

[Kid R]

What Monty does is so huge for how the new world develops (the first/most important half of of the game from this start). E.g. if he gets Hinduism and does something nuts like build Stonehenge early it effectively makes for a totally different scenario to agriculture, archery, barracks or something like that.

I have started the scenario several times till Monty chose polytheism on turn 1 and none of the other mystic civs did. Doesn't seem any more of a cheat than HoF map finding This is the start I am now playing from. Monarch standard speed.

 

[lindsay40k]

What Monty does is so huge for how the new world develops (the first/most important half of of the game from this start). E.g. if he gets Hinduism and does something nuts like build Stonehenge early it effectively makes for a totally different scenario to agriculture, archery, barracks or something like that.

I have started the scenario several times till Monty chose polytheism on turn 1 and none of the other mystic civs did. Doesn't seem any more of a cheat than HoF map finding This is the start I am now playing from. Monarch standard speed.

This is an interesting approach. Instead of Oracling CoL - a plan of questionable feasibility on Deity - rely on Monty to get a Shrine online. It'll mean more hammers (and food, given how much the whip will be needed for expansion) going into settling the East earlier on, Cottages developing quicker, 100 (standard speed) fewer GPP needed to get an Academy (I assume everyone wants a giant river cottage bureaucap?) and a similar rolling discount on every bulb.

The downside will be a tighter economy until taking Kashi off Monty due to no tithes and no Courthouses until getting CoL the hard way, and perhaps a major struggle to beat the Old World civs to Philosophy, thereby making the Liberalism race a lot harder. Also, perhaps a tougher time invading Monty. What sort of era are people generally tackling him at?

 

[elitetroops]

This is an interesting approach. Instead of Oracling CoL - a plan of questionable feasibility on Deity - rely on Monty to get a Shrine online. It'll mean more hammers (and food, given how much the whip will be needed for expansion) going into settling the East earlier on, Cottages developing quicker, 100 (standard speed) fewer GPP needed to get an Academy (I assume everyone wants a giant river cottage bureaucap?) and a similar rolling discount on every bulb.

Why would you need a shrine online? No matter what Monty does, I wouldn't waste a GP on a shrine here.

I started this on immortal/epic. Looked good, then the hut in Rio gave me MC. I hate reloading, especially because of hut results, but there's no way I continue with free MC. It would kind of defeat the purpose of this exercise..

 

[Soupturtle]

I'm also not sure where a shrine, or what Monty gets up to, would come into my strategy. I didn't get a religion until I met the new world (I would have liked Monty to get one, but he didn't), and Monty has been pretty irrelevant. I got no more than one or two technologies from him in trade, and I'm not planning on going to war with him until I've dealt with most of the old world. The longer you leave Monty be, the more outdated his army becomes, and dealing with any runaway civs in the old world is much more urgent.

I see how a shrine is big on a huge map, but I can't imagine managing to found a religion (or conquering Monty early) and still teching and expanding efficiently enough that you'll have anything to trade the old world for backfilling when you meet them. Being the third or fourth to Astronomy was huge in my game - having to do all the backfilling myself would have significantly impeded my progress. But I'd be interested to hear how it works out for you.

I didn't bother with the liberalism race either, by the way. I didn't think I could win it, so I teched straight along the shortest path to Astronomy.

 

[Nexlev]

I finished my Monarch game last night, capitulating Cyrus and Saladin in 1944 to win conquest.

The late game was a pain and took forever. I had two main stacks, one amphibious and a massive land army roaming the old world. Most of my wars I was able to isolate one foe and his/her vassals. I was able to demand 10 coins tribute to keep the AI in peace treaty (except stubborn Qin and Cathy). First war was with Monty and his vassals Liz and Roosevelt. Took Liz out quickly with my amphibious stack (her cities were swallowed by French Culture). Stayed in America until I took the best cities, farming Montes backwards units for XP. Took on Egypt next because her and Saladin were the only two powers that weren't vassaled by the big 3. After Egypt, went after Cathy and Frederick, then China Mongolia Japan Romans and French. Wiped France and Rome off the map quickly then went after China, who held out until he only had tundra cities left. Once they were capitulated I turned on Cyrus and his vassals India, Mali and Greece. Saladin declared war on me when I declared on Cyrus, but it didn't have much effect on the war other than giving me more targets. Cyrus and Saladin were stubborn and I had to go after their polynesian islands before they would quit. Greece and Mali were cupcakes.

I'm pretty sure there is a better approach than the one I took. I didn't really turn on production until I had a significant tech lead, with industrialism and combustion. At the very least I should have had at least 2 amphibious stacks, that would've made the game a lot quicker.

 

[Soupturtle]

My immortal game is now at 1810. I decided to forego the daring naval invasion on Mecca in favor of a more traditional gradual romp through Europe. I figured that the production power of Europe would help a lot in the end, and that I didn't want to split my hammers too much between naval and land troops, preferring to focus on creating an unstoppable land-based force. I've taken the traditional territories of Germany, Rome and Spain, and am starting on Greece/Balkans, leaving the Germans alive in Scandinavia and the Romans somewhere in the middle of Russia (weirdly). From here on it's just a straight line of four or five Arabian cities towards Mecca. The Romans put up a fairly good fight, while the Arabians suicided about 100 units (70 cavalry, 20 rifles, and some random stuff) on my 50 unit stack in Paris on the turn I declared (I declared, air striked with 12 bombers, and then waited for them to come to me), and then proceeded to suicide any reinforcements onto me in various ill-chosen places.

I've also massively shot myself in the foot by not building the internet as soon as it was available. I could have probably build it while researching robotics (for mech inf), and then either turned off the slider for a while for mass upgrades or continued straight on satellites. Instead I stupidly didn't build it, and after robotics manually researched refrigeration (for supermarkets, as I have massive health issues) and fascism (war weariness issues). With the internet, I would have definitely gotten fascism and mass media (fixing my happiness issues, especially since I've captured broadway and the eiffel tower), and probably at least one of medicine and refrigeration for my health issues, as well as artillery, rocketry, and some old stuff I skipped. I'm currently teching rocketry, and it's probably still worth it to get the internet, as I can probably get it in about 8 turns by now, but I could have been so much further on in the tech tree if I hadn't been an idiot. Also, Saladin completed the Apollo program in ~1800, but I'm fairly sure I'm beating him (even though he's still ahead in power with his 4 vassals). I'm more worried about Cyrus picking up Saladin's vassals once they start breaking off, and about Catherine starting a massive war on me.

 

[dohh]

Is it possible to achieve conquest or domination victory with Inca on Earth 18 civs scenario on monarch+ level?

One of my favourite scenarios, have played it several times.
With the Incas I have had a domination at emperor (quite easy, probably could do that at Immortal too) and space at immortal (that was quite difficult).

All these ways are possible:

1) conquer north America, then expand to old world.
2) rex to southern America, then fast research to modern technology, then conquer old world. I have actually had a game, where I built 2 woodman axes for early barbs and nothing more until rifles/cannons afterwards (except navy to hold back Aztecs obv).
3) the most enjoyable way, fast research to astro. this will be just in time to set a stronghold to southern Africa or Australia.
4) winning space without a single land war and using only south America.

 

[dohh]

Soup, did You interact somehow, or what did keep Chinese so weak? In 9 games of 10 they go far ahead of everybody else at this scenario...Im very surprised that Chinese are not about to end this game by this time.