Easterling Empire Discussion

[NamesAreUseless]

Hello everyone. I had started my own Arda mod over a year ago, and I was very immature in how I handed it. I am glad that Elda King's Arda Mod is much better then what I could ever make.

Anyways, I'm no real modder. What I do know is Tolkien lore (at least some). I would like to, in the best of my abilities, be able to create some discussion for the civilizations that will be in the game. I would like to start with the Easterlings.


A Second Leader:

Now I have thought for a long time now that the Easterlings of the First Age in Beleriand weren't closely related to the Easterlings of the Third Age in Rhun. Through some lore research, I think I'm catching more and more onto that relation theory however. Because of this, Ulfang makes a great choice for one of the Easterling leaders.

But I'd like to propose another: Khamûl. He was once a King among the Easterlings of Rhun, but would become one of the Nine Nazgul as he accepted one of the Rings of Power. This mod could represent Khamul before he received a Ring of Power and became a wraith. I think he would be Aggressive and Expansive.


Hildórien, the Beginning:

It is probably known by most everyone around here that Hildórien is the place where Man was born at the beginning of the First Age. It is my belief, and others I know as well, that the Easterlings of Rhun were probably the remnant of the first men born (but they never migrated), much like the Avari Elves of Cuiviénen.

Although man wasn't born in the Age of the Stars, the civilizations tech tree will need to start for them much like the other civilizations. They would represent most of their units in this Age as very primitive Men.

I would say, in fact, that all Man civilizations should start with a Hildórien Warrior as their initial Warrior unit, as should all Elven civilizations start with a Cuiviénen Warrior as their initial Warrior unit (but that should probably be discussed in another thread).

Hildórien-themed Units:
1. Warrior: Strength 5, movement 1, hammer cost 30, requires Bronze Working tech and a metal resource (bronze, iron)
2. Spearman: Strength 4, movement 1, hammer cost 25, requires Hunting tech and a metal resource (iron or copper), +50% vs Cavalry units


The Hithlum Easterlings:

The Easterlings of the First Age in Beleriand actually were on the side of Good. It was at the Battle of Unnumbered Tears that Ulfang turned against his Elven allies, which in part lead to Evil's victory that day. Perhaps at a certain point in the First Age, the Easterling units could somehow be presented as "Good", and start to become more "Evil" as the tech tree progresses?

Morgoth had promised them gifts if they joined him, but instead the Dark Lord exiled them to the lands of Hithlum after the battle.

I'd imagine the Hithlum Easterlings would be quite primitive like the Hildórien Warriors from earlier in the tech tree. Hithlum is a land surrounded by mountains, up FAR North West (ironic, huh?) in Beleriand. I'd imagine it would be a harsh and cold climate. Perhaps the Hithlum Easterling's would wear layers of animal fur, almost like eskimos? I could see them with a very effective Hunter Gather culture.


Hithlum Units:
1. Axeman: Strength 5, movement 1, hammer cost 35, requires Weaponry tech and a metal resource (iron or copper), +50% vs Melee units
2. Axethrower: Strength 5, movement 1, hammer cost 40, requires Weaponry tech and a metal resource (iron or copper), +40% vs Melee units, 1 1st strike
3. Bowman: Strength 3, movement 1, hammer cost 20, requires Archery tech, +50% when defending cities and +10% when defending hills, 1 1st strike
4. Knight: Strength 7, movement 2, hammer cost 50, requires Cavalry Tactics tech, a Horses resource and a metal resource (iron or copper), it does not receive defense bonuses
5. Horseman: Strength 6, movement 2, hammer cost 45, requires Mounted Combat tech, a Horses resource and a metal resource (iron or copper), it does not receive defense bonuses and has +20% vs Cavalry units
6. Mouted Bowman: Strength 4, movement 2, hammer cost 30, requires Horseback Riding and Archery techs, and a Horses resource, it does not receive defense bonuses, has 1 1st strike
7. Ram: Strength 0, movement 1, hammer cost 40, requires Siege Warfare tech, can bombard city defenses (-15%)
8. Swordsman: Strength 7, movement 1, hammer cost 40, requires Iron Working tech and a metal resource (iron only)
9. Phalanx: Strength 6, movement 1, hammer cost 40, requires Infantry Tactics tech and a metal resource (iron or copper), +50% vs Cavalry units and +10% when defending hills, plains or grasslands

(In the Hithlum's case, the cavalry units should be single-horse chariots)


Second Age Easterlings?:

As the fall of Morgoth came, the sinking of Beleriand would occur. Thuslly, the Easterlings of the Second Age and onwards should focus on the Easterlings of Rhun. Now, I have had some theories that perhaps a few of the Hithlum Easterlings began to embark East into Middle Earth like many other races did (before Beleriand sank). I have thought that perhaps some Evil Men in the West (like perhaps some of the Ruffian Hill Men north of the Shire, or some of the Harlindon Forest Wild Men) would be related.

However, Tolkien doesn't say much. It does say that they did fight for Sauron in the War of the Last Alliance, but that's about it. It may be best to come up with Easterling units of the Second Age that represent less armored versions of the Third Age Easterlings from the LOTR films. Imagine Easterlings in Leather, something like that.

Leather-armored Easterling-themed units:
1. Long Swordsman): Strength 10, movement 1, hammer cost 55, requires Long Swords tech and a iron resource
2. Lanceman: Strength 8, movement 1, hammer cost 55, requires Pole Weapons tech and a iron resource, + 50% vs Cavalry units and +10% when defending hills, plains or grasslands
3. Great-Axeman: Strength 7, movement 1, hammer cost 50, requires Battle Axes tech and a iron resource, +50% vs Melee units
4. Maceman: Strength 10, movement 1, hammer cost 75, requires Improved Smithing tech and a iron resource, +50% vs Melee units
5. Archer: Strength 6, movement 1, hammer cost 40, requires Sharpshooting tech, +50% when defending cities and +25% when defending hills, 1 1st strike
6. Stone Thrower: Strength 4, movement 1, hammer cost 60, requires Improved Siege Warfare tech, can bombard city defenses (-20%), causes collateral damage


The Balchoth and the Wainriders:

In 490 of the Third Age, Balchoth and Wainriders attacked Gondor. What are Balchoth and Wainriders? They were tribes of Rhun Easterlings that fought with Chariots. This should be the only civilization with chariots!

What the Balchoth were is kind of a mystery, just that they were a tribe of Easterlings. Perhaps they could represent the Easterlings of the Second Age (calling units of this Age such things as Balchoth Axemen, Balchoth Pikemen, etc.)? Its up to you all, but I wouldn't leave the Balchoth out. The Balchoth could wear Mail armor perhaps?

The Wainriders, however, we do know. They were chariots. Now I saw in this forum that Zerver made some very nice Easterling Riders. What I would do is have the Wainriders come earlier in the tech tree then Easterling Riders.

Balchoth-themed Units:
1. Swordsmaster: Strength 15, movement 1, hammer cost 80, requires Swordsmanship tech and a iron resource
2. Hammerer: Strength 12, movement 1, hammer cost 95, requires War Hammer tech and a iron resource, +50% vs Melee units
3. Longbowman: Strength 9, movement 1, hammer cost 60, requires Longbows tech, +50% when defending cities and +25% when defending hills, 2 1st strikes
4. Catapult: Strength 8, movement 1, hammer cost 110, requires Ballistics tech, can bombard city defenses (-35%), causes collateral damage

Wainrider Tribe-themed Units:
1. Melee Swordsman
Paladin: Strength 10, movement 2, hammer cost 70, requires Chivalry tech, a Horses resource and a Iron resource, it does not receive defense bonuses
2. Wainrider Polesman
Rider: Strength 8, movement 2, hammer cost 60, requires Combined Armies tech, a Horses resource and a iron resource, it does not receive defense bonuses and has +30% vs Cavalry units
3. Ranged Wainrider
Mounted Archer: Strength 8, movement 2, hammer cost 50, requires Strategy and Sharpshooting techs and a Horses resource, it does not receive defense bonuses, has 1 1st strike

(Wainrider Tribe cavalry units should probably be double-horse chariots)


Easterlings of Rhun:

We all have seen the movies, and we all [should] agree: they are tight! The only thing I'd like to mention is that it may be best to save all the Easterling Swordmen, Easterling Archers, and Easterling Crossbowmen made by Zerver for the later part of the Third Age and into the Fourth Age.

One last point I'd like to make of the Rhun Easterlings: in the ROTK book, in the Battle of the Pelennor Fields, the Easterlings are described as bearded men with axes. Yes, they probably sound like Dwarf wananbes, but I'm just telling you all. The movies iteration of them is very different from probably what Tolkien imagined. Perhaps the "Bearded men" could be incorporated to units earlier in the tech tree (like the Second Age Easterlings or the Balchoth)? Perhaps the axes they carry are very similar, more primitive versions, of the halberds that the Easterlings in the LOTR movies have?

Rhun-themed Units:
1. Halberdier: Strength 8, movement 1, hammer cost 55, requires Pole Weapons tech and a iron resource, + 25% vs Cavalry units, +25% vs Melee units and +10% when defending hills, plains or grasslands
2. Heavy Cavalry: Strength 20, movement 2, hammer cost 140, requires Total War tech, a Horses resource and a Iron resource, it does not receive defense bonuses
3. Light Cavalry: Strength 13, movement 3, hammer cost 100, requires Horsemanship tech, a Horses resource and a iron resource, it does not receive defense bonuses and has +30% vs Cavalry units
4. Horse Archer: Strength 12, movement 3, hammer cost 90, requires Military Training and Sharpshooting techs and a Horses resource, it does not receive defense bonuses, has 1 1st strike
5. Siege Tower: Strength 6, movement 1, hammer cost 80, requires Advanced Siege Warfare tech, can bombard city defenses (-25%)
6. Infantry: Strength 18, movement 1, hammer cost 95, requires Total War tech and a iron resource
7. Pikeman: Strength 12, movement 1, hammer cost 90, requires Superior Pole Weapons tech and a iron resource, + 75% vs Cavalry units and +10% when defending hills, plains or grasslands
8. Mauler: Strength 15, movement 1, hammer cost 125, requires Total War tech, a iron resource, +50% vs Melee units
9. Advanced Archer: Strength 12, movement 1, hammer cost 90, requires Total War tech, +50% when defending cities and +25% when defending hills, 3 1st strikes
10. Crossbowman: Strength 15, movement 1, hammer cost 100, requires Crossbows tech, +20% vs Melee units, 2 1st strikes

(The Rhun Cavalry should have now gone past the chariot, now riding on horseback)


Neo-Age Easterlings:

Imagine with me: Rhun Easterlings in heavy plate armor, with lots more spikes and huge tower shields. Yep, badass.

Fourth Age Easterling Units:
1. Heavy Infantry: Strength 21, movement, hammer cost 110, requires Plate Armor tech and a iron resource
2. Partisan: Strength 12, movement 1, hammer cost 90, requires Superior Pole Weapons tech and a iron resource, + 50% vs Cavalry units, +25% vs Melee units and +10% when defending hills, plains or grasslands
Javelin Thrower
3. Trebuchet: Strength 10, movement 1, hammer cost 200, requires Trebuchets tech, can bombard city defenses (-50%), causes collateral damage


Names for Great People:

There are very few Easterlings ever named in Tolkien's works. The only Easterlings with names left would be Ulfang's sons, which I would consider all Great Leaders: Ulfast, Ulwrath, and Uldor the Accursed).

As for the names of other Great People: they would need made up. We can look at the names of the Hithlum Easterlings (Ulfang and his sons) and the name of Khamul (an Easterling King turned Ringwraith). Names that start with "Ul" seems popular to the Hithlum Easterlings. Perhaps even combining the "Ul" with a part of the name Khamul would be for good Great People names (like maybe Ulam, Uldul, etc.).



That's about all the ideas I have for now. Lets hear some discussion of what you all think of the Easterling Empire. By the way, here is a good source for information on the Easterlings (better than Encyclopedia of Arda imo): http://www.tuckborough.net/rhun.html

 

[Sifaus]

many thanks i cant red all but i'll read them...

 

[Elda King]

Well, a very instructive text about easterlings, thought I already know all of it. I'd recoment you read the Parma Endorion to get more information about the migrations of the humans and everything. But the Easterlings of the First Age were not really that related to those of the Third Age. Those early easterlings were, ethnicaly, of the dunlending people, that is also the same ethny of the people of bree and the common folk of Gondor and Arnor (not of Numenorean ethny). The easterlings of the 3rd age were truly several different peoples, and you made a very good list there. Anyway, as we already have a dunlending civ, our Easterling civ represents the Easterlings of the third age, with it's many peoples (Balchoth, Wainriders, people of Rhûn, of Dorwinion, etc), as well as our Harad civ represents all the various peoples of the South, both Near Harad and Far Harad, and maybe Khand.
We now don't really need different UUs for each people, as we now can have different graphic sets for each unit, so I thought we could simply customize them by giving them specific promos, and the UUs should be units with no equivalence in the other cultures - like chariots, oliphaunts, balrogs, nazgûl, dragons, orc units for some human civs, elven and numenorean special ships, dwarven axemen (or maybe we should call them axedwarves?) and such. About having Khâmul as a leader, he would probably be a Hero, but it would do no harm to have him as a King unit... He actually was a Easterling king.
P.S.: Cuyvienen warrior? Err... our mod begins in the First Age of the Sun, after the Exiles arrived in ME.

 

[NamesAreUseless]

Well, a very instructive text about easterlings, thought I already know all of it. I'd recoment you read the Parma Endorion to get more information about the migrations of the humans and everything.

Parma Endorion? What's that? If it's not written by Tolkien himself, I generally don't consider it as canon.

Of course, that's just me assuming too quickly. I suppose I'll check it out.

But the Easterlings of the First Age were not really that related to those of the Third Age. Those early easterlings were, ethnicaly, of the dunlending people, that is also the same ethny of the people of bree and the common folk of Gondor and Arnor (not of Numenorean ethny).

Then how come Ulfang is leading the Easterling civilization?

If you decide not to include the Hithlum Easterings into this civilization, then what will represent the Easterling civilization in the First Age?

The easterlings of the 3rd age were truly several different peoples, and you made a very good list there. Anyway, as we already have a dunlending civ, our Easterling civ represents the Easterlings of the third age, with it's many peoples (Balchoth, Wainriders, people of Rhûn, of Dorwinion, etc), as well as our Harad civ represents all the various peoples of the South, both Near Harad and Far Harad, and maybe Khand.

Dorwinion? They made wine for the elves of Mirkwood, they wouldn't be a part of the Rhun Easterlings.

I was guessing you probably knew most of all the info I presented above. I was more trying to show how I believed, technologically, they could progress. First Age Easterlings could have furs and bronze weaponry, Second Age Easterlings could have leather armor, Balchoth could have mail armor, etc.

We now don't really need different UUs for each people, as we now can have different graphic sets for each unit, so I thought we could simply customize them by giving them specific promos, and the UUs should be units with no equivalence in the other cultures - like chariots, oliphaunts, balrogs, nazgûl, dragons, orc units for some human civs, elven and numenorean special ships, dwarven axemen (or maybe we should call them axedwarves?) and such.

Ah, so they would have both Wains AND ride on horseback. I think it'd be much easier if you stuck with just chariots until the Third Age though (less modelling work ).

About having Khâmul as a leader, he would probably be a Hero, but it would do no harm to have him as a King unit... He actually was a Easterling king.

Well that could work too. Still, many of the King units seem to also represent the civilization's leader (in the case of the Shadow and Dunland). Simply want this civ to have more than one leader if possible

P.S.: Cuyvienen warrior? Err... our mod begins in the First Age of the Sun, after the Exiles arrived in ME.

Your tech tree would say otherwise. From what I see, you start in the Age of the Stars, which sounds to me like the first year in the Valarin Age, in which the stars are first formed by Varda. If this is the case, then Cuivienen Warriors would be appropriate.

Perhaps the tech tree I looked at isn't the current one?

 

[Elda King]

Parma Endorion is a big essay by Michael Martinez, about a lot of themes. He doesn't invents anything, be sure, but he discusses in depth parts of the books and the HoMEs.
About Ulfang as leader of the 3rd Age Easterlings, well, they were not the same people, nor very closely related, but some relation probably existed. The easterlings of all agels are actually formed by a large amount of different peoples withouth any huge relation, other than coming from the east of the edain/dunedain. There were several tribes of the first age, some wich betrayed the elves and some that didn't, and I assumed the Bor's folk were the Dunlendings that later escaped to Eriador and the Ulfang's people were part of those who had fallen under the influence of Morgoth, and some tribes were summoned to Beleriand to fight for him. Also, we were in shortage of leaders for this kind of civ. I actually was using the name of one leader of Umbar for leader of the Easterlings before someone sugested Ulfang...
As for Dorwinion, it was located on the east of the Iron Hills, and probably was part of Rhûn, what doesn't force them to be evil, or in war with the elves. And I found it unnecessary to complement your technological evolution, it's perfect, except we probably won't have so many units, just the regular units with different graphics (and your ideas are great) and a few units. And I see no problem in having horseman and wainriders, they serve different purposes... And, as we can use the core game chariot as the Wainrider unit, no extra work.
Probably most of the king units represent a civ' leader, as they are exactly that: a unit representing your leader...
This Age of Stars is a part difficult to explain... Actually, the Age of Stars is the time between the killing of the trees and the coming of the Sun. The one you thought was the Age of the Trees, because the Elves only awakened after the Trees have been created and Varda created more stars with the light of the Trees. But, anyway, my line of thought was this: "The game will start in the First Age of the Sun, but the players should not have mastered all the lore of it. So I'll put a short age for the players to research them, and simply ignore the fact that Men would awaken only at the end of this age, very backwards on the tech tree".

 

[thomas.berubeg]

i'de love to have unique, or original, art for everything in the mod, if possible...