Effective Commerical Managment...
- Thread starter Strider
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Strider
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Ok, I'm going to try to do one more test over PTW before I start on Conquests, but I'm going to need some help with it.
Does someone have a save where all the cities are at the max 2 tiles apart? (close-build). I only play where the cities are 3-4 tiles apart so I can compare one of those games to mine to find out the advantage's/disadvantages to both. (and the other differant city-placement strats).
Does someone have a save where all the cities are at the max 2 tiles apart? (close-build). I only play where the cities are 3-4 tiles apart so I can compare one of those games to mine to find out the advantage's/disadvantages to both. (and the other differant city-placement strats).
A loan of 3001 gp for 150 gpt is not an equal return.
3001 gp today has far more value than 150 gpt for 20 turns. This is called the Time Value of Money. With 3001 gp, you can buy numerous city improvements and units and obtain the benefit of those purchases for 20 turns. 3001 gp will buy numerous marketplaces, banks, stock markets, etc., with a tremendous increase in income fo 20 turns. If you were to purchase ten extra marketplaces, waiting for 1 turn of production to get the 50% discount and 1 more turn to start getting additional income, would easily produce 10 extra gpt for 18 turns, or 180 gp.
Additionally, loaning 3001 can cost you up to 50 gpt if youhave Wall Street and the loan takes you down to 0 gp in your treasury. If you don't spend any of the 150 gpt you get, it will take 6 turns to get back above 1000 gp in the treasury and get the full benefit of Wall Street. During that time you will have eraned 120 gp in interest from Wall Street, whereas you would have earned 300 gp if you didn't spend your entire treasury, for a loss of 180 gp. Accordingly, even if thinking about this practice, keep 1000 gp.
Lastly, as mentioned, getting a loan of 150 gpt increases the likelihood that the Debtor AI will go to war, since this is the only way to default on a loan in Civ 3 (A realistic improvement would allow a nation the choice of declaring war in the event of a default, with a loss of reputation either way.)
The solution to these two dilemmas, risk and the time value of money, in the real world is interest. (Despite what your credit card companies may think, interest is not intended to equal profits.)
Even a modest 8% interest rate would require 160.77 gpt. Considering the risk of war and default, a more reasonable 15% interest rate would require 170.52 gpt. Even then the extra 410 gp earned, would be offset by the 180 gp loss from Wall Street and 180 gp from lost marketplaces, leaving interest income of only 50 gp over 20 turns, hardly a good return, even if it hamstrings the AIs research.
Considering that the AI doesnt amortize loans or take any of the above considerations into account, its unlikely that the AI would ever agree to 170 gpt in exchange for 3001 gp.
3001 gp today has far more value than 150 gpt for 20 turns. This is called the Time Value of Money. With 3001 gp, you can buy numerous city improvements and units and obtain the benefit of those purchases for 20 turns. 3001 gp will buy numerous marketplaces, banks, stock markets, etc., with a tremendous increase in income fo 20 turns. If you were to purchase ten extra marketplaces, waiting for 1 turn of production to get the 50% discount and 1 more turn to start getting additional income, would easily produce 10 extra gpt for 18 turns, or 180 gp.
Additionally, loaning 3001 can cost you up to 50 gpt if youhave Wall Street and the loan takes you down to 0 gp in your treasury. If you don't spend any of the 150 gpt you get, it will take 6 turns to get back above 1000 gp in the treasury and get the full benefit of Wall Street. During that time you will have eraned 120 gp in interest from Wall Street, whereas you would have earned 300 gp if you didn't spend your entire treasury, for a loss of 180 gp. Accordingly, even if thinking about this practice, keep 1000 gp.
Lastly, as mentioned, getting a loan of 150 gpt increases the likelihood that the Debtor AI will go to war, since this is the only way to default on a loan in Civ 3 (A realistic improvement would allow a nation the choice of declaring war in the event of a default, with a loss of reputation either way.)
The solution to these two dilemmas, risk and the time value of money, in the real world is interest. (Despite what your credit card companies may think, interest is not intended to equal profits.)
Even a modest 8% interest rate would require 160.77 gpt. Considering the risk of war and default, a more reasonable 15% interest rate would require 170.52 gpt. Even then the extra 410 gp earned, would be offset by the 180 gp loss from Wall Street and 180 gp from lost marketplaces, leaving interest income of only 50 gp over 20 turns, hardly a good return, even if it hamstrings the AIs research.
Considering that the AI doesnt amortize loans or take any of the above considerations into account, its unlikely that the AI would ever agree to 170 gpt in exchange for 3001 gp.
Strider
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Like I said above, the 3000g vs 150gpt was just an easily calculated example. It will likly me much smaller sums.
Also, let me point out that an increase to the AI's commercial rate can help you as they will have more money to spend on techs/lux's. (of course... it can harm you also). Another thing would be getting the extra 150gpt will allow you to bring your science/lux rate up higher. Also, the AI tends to use the extra money to rush units... not improvements in there cities. This would obviously further damage the AI's economy by the increase in military upkeep (depending on what form of government the AI is in). As far as I know I have never seen any instance's where the AI has rushed any form of improvement and if there is one, I doubt the AI does it often.
Strider
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True, but the AI is extremely bad at launching attacks and they are easily defended off with the right amount of defense. Also, the majority of the time giving a lump sum of gold for a gpt amount will be during the times where you give them 70g for 3gpt. 70g will have little effect on the AI's economy, by time large sums start to be traded most AI's have 3-5 units defending each of there cities, so an attack against another AI will prolly cost them alot also and I would believe a human brian will beable to calculate and counter-attack effectivly.
Plechazunga
Chieftain
Does anyone know how city size effects a Commercial civ's commerce, in real numbers? I'm in the middle of GOTM28, trying to dig myself out of a hole, and this might effect my strategy. I've noticed that there's a big jump, once you're a City (ie: pop 7 to 12), is there another big jump once you're a Metropolis (pop 13+)?
As far as I know a Commercial civ gets one additional gold piece from the city centre square of any city greater than size 6. Not a *big* step up! Apart from lower corruption (see Alexman's thread for the formula), that's it. Of course, I may be wrong.
I'm not sure I understand why the number of cities makes a difference. Each city between pop 6 and pop 12 will contribute an additional gpt. If it's already producing 1 to 2 gpt per worked tile then this gives a 10%-ish effect on gross income, however many cities you have. Do we know if this extra gold is reduced by corruption, or does it go straight to the bottom line?
