Force44 said:
First, a thank you to everyone for congratulating me with winning the guessing the upcoming four civilizations game. That was a nice surprise.
Now back on topic. I like especially the names Swarbs gave to the UHV goals.
I am convinced they will suffice but the tasks the player have to complete for them are a bit bland to my taste.
Arabs
Spawn date 632AD as currently
UU - Ghazi
UB - Bazaar (Market) - Provides +1
and +1
from desert and semidesert tiles
UP - The Power of Faith - If your State Religion is a major religion it spreads to each newly acquired city, and you incur no stability penalties from foreign religions in your cities
Historical Victory goals
- The Sword of Islam: Control the Levant, Egypt, Cilicia, Ifriqiya, Crete and Sicily by 969AD
This is a bit too modest to my taste. In 750 AD the Arabs (during the Umayyad Caliphate) were able to project their power all the way to Tours. Only then was their advance halted by Mister Carl Hammer.
On the RFCE-map that is only two squares away from Paris. The Arabs failed to achieve victory, but for completing this first part of the UHV the player doesn't even have to attempt it. That feels a bit lackluster.
Maybe something like achieve n victories in combat in the provinces x, y and z would better represent their historical projection of power. (capturing a ciy could count for multiple victories)
- The Golden Age of Islam: Be the leader in tech in 1260AD
This looks very feasable. If the UHV were the last part of the civ to be implemented I would consider this an excellent placeholder.
Personally I would like to give it a little twist.
In stead of being tech leader in 1260 AD I would suggest discover m techs first
or discover more techs first than your closest two rivals combined (France and Byzantium will have a head start on you)
The viking counter is fun (imho) and I assume a tech counter will also provide a certain amount of satisfaction.
On that note. Arabia could receive a prestige counter (which goes up when (ao) building wonders, when a new tech is acquired first, when borders expand through culture and when great people points are acquired) tied to an UHV-condition.
- Defender of the Faith: Control the Levant, Egypt, Cilicia and Ifriqiya by 1290AD (assuming Hafsid Tunisia spawns in 1229AD)
Personally I care for this one the least. I like spread islam to a certain percent more. It had the strategical implication of trying to get islam to the threshold asap or when all other UHV's were completed. It gave two very different games.
Having said that, I'd like to spice this one up by for completing the UHV you not only have to conquer a certain amount of territories by a certain date, but also occupy them for a certain amount of time.
Eg. Contol the levant between 750 and 1200 AD and control Egypt between 800 and 900 AD and controllCilicia between 850 and 1000 AD. (the exact dates are probably nonsensical) It could (ao) force the player to defend against a spawn for a couple of turns.
Notes: Start with Farriers to enable Ghazis from spawn and support rapid conquest
That is probably required to achieve the First UHV you outlined. It is problably a lot of fun to start with a big army to carve yourself a little empire at the start of the game.
I actually liked the nerf in the latest SVN updates where Arabia received less horsearchers. No more inciting barbarians to fight the Byzantines in a concerted effort. (pillage towns for early money and additional military pressure against Byzantium)
And this Buff will undo that nerf.
Egypt
Spawn data 969AD
UU - Zanji spearman (Guisarmer) Same as the mercenary unit. 2
to facilitate rapid conquest and defend against Mongols
UB - Lusterware forge (Blacksmith) +10%
, +5%
with gold, silver and copper, can turn 1 citizen into artist
UP - The Power of the Nile - Receive health benefits from flood plains instead of health penalties
The province of Egypt really is not that small. It can support 4 cities that have no overlap in BFC at all.
And Egypt can also always expand west. The Arabian territory looks more like the problem to me.
At the start of the game Egyptian culture is already 6000 years old and the people in Egypt identified very strongly with their heritage. If I recall correctly they lynched an Arabian Muslim for vandalizing the Sfinx.
I suggest doing something with that culture.
Maybe have two of their starting cities start with legendary culture so that they need only a third to achieve a Cultural victory. (that could be their third UHV)
They also exported their ancient heritage. So maybe an option to remove a certain amount of culture in exchange for commerce or production every couple of turns (modified by a small random factor would be icing on the cake) a bit similar to the now defunct whipping.
(a bit of elaboration under the spoiler)
Historical Victory goals
- The Fatamid Caliphate: Control Ifriqiya, Sicily, Egypt and the Levant by 1050AD
- Jewel of the Nile: Make Cairo the largest and most cultured city in 1250AD
Personally I liked the idea of getting rid of crusaders a little better. Gameplaywise I like the idea that the (short) time Egypt and Arabia coexist together they form a bigger obstacle to the Christian civs than separate. Liberate s cities and destroy t crusaders in the provinces u and v between w and x looks like a fun task to me. Not every UHV-condition has to be very hard.
In that light the Jewel of the Nile is also a slightly less desirable goal as it puts Egypt at odds with the Arabian UHV-condition of being first in science. (you need need big cities with lots of science boosting (and thereby also culture boosting) buildings for that)
An UHV-condition involving liberating cities would however require some ingenious rule that prevents the player from simply declaring war, capturing and then returning the city later.
- True heirs of the Prophet: Destroy or vassalise the Ottomans, Tunisia and Morocco by 1500AD
Is 1500 based on a certain event or development in history? Else, why not just skip the date requirement. It feels like something to make everything harder, not different. For a high score isn't it desirable to complete the UHV asap anyway?
In stead of destroying or vassalizing the Ottomans Tunesia and Morocco, why not outcultere them in their own lands? Culturebomb them untill you have more culture in their core than they accumulated themselves. Isn't that something in the scope of a True hare of the prophet?
Note: Add a wonder, proposed Cairo Citadel, to give +2
from floodplains to make UHV2 possible.
A wonder just to make an UHV possible. That seems like a bit dodgy UHV to me. Not very much tied to the civilization. If another civilization would build that wonder, would they be able to perform the same task as the civiliztion that has an UHV-condition tied to that task?
@ Swarbs
I feel a bit sorry for saying stuff that is very easy to interpret as critique.
(basically I say I like your idea and then disagree with a lot of what you posted)
It is not meant as something you did wrong or should do better.
The things you wrote got me thinking and inspired me to come up with the ideas posted in the post above.
regards, Force44