Eight New Hoplite units

[Dark Sheer]

Hmmm...I have been away for a week and all of a sudden I find this GREAT pack by Kryten!!

Wonderful job my friend!

 

[Civanator]

Kryten, It is okay if you call the Hired Hoplite the Mercenary Hoplite, I don't even have a working computer that I can make animations on

 

[Cimbri]

Sweet... Hoplités for the Persian Wars. Nice job there, Kryten.

 

[W.i.n.t.e.r]

Hehehe- just to say that I am trying to incorporate all of these units into my mod... the greeks will get the citizen and allied hoplites as swordman replacement, persians will indeed upgrade to the hired and subjugated ones. The Spartan and Auxiliary Hoplites will fight for allied Karthago- and the Theban Units will fight for .... Egypt (can't think of anybody else...)

And, yesss- I followed your advice on the Immortals hehehe

 

[Kryten]

I would very much like to thank everybody for all their great praise....but as I said in the first post, these are little more than than the Civ3 Hoplite with nothing more than different helmets, different shields, and some of them now have cloaks.
Having said that.....each unit has 480 frames....times this by 8 units....and you have a total of 3,840 frames!
("You must be bleeding mad Kryten, or maybe you should work for Disney!" )

To Civanator,

Hired Hoplites they are, Hired Hoplites the will remain.
This does mean that the name 'Mercenary Hoplites' is still up for grabs should you or anyone else wish to use it.

To W.i.n.t.e.r,

Originally posted by W.i.n.t.e.r ....and the Theban Units will fight for .... Egypt (can't think of anybody else...)

.....and you would be quite right!
The Egyptians, in their 60 year revolt against Persia, were not stupid. Like their Persian overlords, they also hired the best troops they could.....i.e. Mercenary Hoplites (although these were not necessarily Thebans, but ANY Greek Hoplites. And as most Hopltes wore anything they liked, then any Hoplite would do. ).

Here is some info from the Encarta Encyclopaedia......

When the last Egyptian king was defeated by Cambyses II in 525 BC, the country entered a period of Persian domination under the 27th, or Persian, Dynasty. Egypt reasserted its independence under the 28th (404-399 BC) and 29th (399-380 BC) dynasties, but the 30th Dynasty (380-343 BC) was the last one of native rulers. The last 12 years of the Late Period represented the second period of Persian domination
(and was taken over by Alexander the Great in 331 BC).
Microsoft® Encarta® Reference Library 2002.

Despite the defeat of the Spartans led by Cleombrotus I, co-ruler of Sparta, at Leuctra in 371 BC, Agesilaus (one of the two kings of Sparta), continued to wage war. He died on his way home from a mercenary expedition in Egypt against the Persians.
Microsoft® Encarta® Reference Library 2002

 

[zulu9812]

Wasn't there also a Greek Thebes, as in Oedipus?

 

[Kryten]

Ah! Thats a good point Zulu9812.
I'm sure that most people already know this, but I'll mention it anyway, just in case.....

.....in ancient times, there were TWO cities called Thebes, one in Greece and the other in Egypt.
And of course Theban Hoplites come from the Greek city of Thebes.


Thebes (Greece), city of ancient Greece, in Boeotia, north of Mount Cithaeron (now Kithairon), north-west of Athens.
Historically Thebes was the most important city in Boetia and from c. 519 BC onwards was a great rival of Athens. In 479 BC, during the Persian invasion of Greece by Xerxes I, the Thebans sided with the invaders and fought against the confederated Greeks at Plataea. When the Peloponnesian War broke out in 431 BC, Thebes fought in alliance with Sparta and at the close of the war was eager for the destruction of Athens; it soon, however, began to dread the growing power of its ally and in the Corinthian War (395-386) BC it was allied with Athens, Corinth, and Argos against Sparta. A bitter antagonism arose between Thebes and Sparta, and a struggle ensued that resulted in a brief period of Theban supremacy in Greece, won by the victory of Epaminondas at Leuctra in 371 BC, and brought to an end by his death at Mantinea in 362 BC.

The eloquence of the Athenian orator Demosthenes persuaded the Thebans to unite with the Athenians in opposition to the encroachments of King Philip II of Macedon, but their combined forces were to no avail, and in 338 BC, at the Battle of Chaeronea, the power of Greece was crushed. After the death of Philip, the Thebans made a fierce but unsuccessful attempt to regain their freedom. Their city was destroyed in 335 BC by Philip's son and successor, Alexander the Great, who sold the surviving population into slavery. Alexander is said to have spared only the temples and the house of the poet Pindar. Although the city was rebuilt in 315 BC by King Cassander of Macedon and prospered for a time, it had dwindled to a wretched village by the 1st century BC.
(Microsoft® Encarta® Reference Library 2002.)

Thebes (Egypt) (in Egyptian, Weset, or Newt), city of ancient Egypt, located on both banks of the River Nile, about 725 km (450 mi) south of the modern city of Cairo.
The city was known to the Egyptians as No-Amon (“the city of Amon”). It was named Thebes by the Greeks, who also called it Diospolis (“heavenly city”). Of prehistoric origin, Thebes first appears in Egyptian records during the Old Kingdom (c. 2686-2181 BC). Tombs of Egyptian pharaohs dating from the 6th Dynasty (2345-2181 BC) have been discovered in the necropolis, which lies on the western side of the Nile.

Under the pharaohs of the 9th and 10th dynasties (c. 2160-2025 BC), Thebes developed into the administrative centre of a powerful line of nomarchs (governors). The Theban nomarchs successfully challenged the pharaohs of Heracleopolis, winning complete control of Egypt in about 2035 BC. With the establishment of the Theban dynasty of pharaohs, Thebes served as the capital of Egypt until the death of the last Ramesside king in 1085 BC, with a short break when Akhenaton removed the capital to Akhetaton (modern-day Tell el-Amarna) in an attempt to establish his new religion (1379-c. 1361 BC).

It was re-established as the seat of Egyptian government shortly after the death of Akhenaton in 1337 BC. Subsequently, in particular during the 19th and 20th dynasties (1295-1069 BC), the pharaohs made additional contributions to the architectural splendour of the city. The Assyrians sacked Thebes in the 7th century BC. Although it was later partly restored, the city declined steadily after the collapse of the 31st Dynasty in 332 BC. In the late 1st century BC, Thebes was destroyed by the Romans.
(Microsoft® Encarta® Reference Library 2002.)

 

[zm1285ghaa]

Very impressive units. Great job! I'm very tempted to try to make a Greek scenario using all of your units.

 

[Arne]

Good Job! Waiting for your next work.

 

[Kal-el]

Originally posted by Kryten
Persian Hired Hoplite
--------------------------
You know, in reality, the Persian Immortal was never as good as Civ3 portrays them. Here is a brief history of this unit:-
First, they were formed about 530 BC, and disappeared after 479 BC, so only existed for some 50 years (or just two Civ3 turns!).
Second, there were just 10,000 of them, no more, no less. This is less than 5% of the total Persian army.
Third, they were destroyed by Athenian & Spartan Hoplites.
Lastly, rather than reforming them, the Persians hired Greek Hoplites instead.
When Alexander the Great invaded Asia Minor in 334 BC for example, he faced some 20,000 Mercenary Hoplites at the battle of Granicus, and 30,000 a year later at the battle of Issus, but NO ‘Immortals’, because they had disappeared almost 150 years earlier.

Soooo…..how did the Greeks defeat them, why were they not rebuilt, and why did the Persians use mercenaries instead?
The reason is obvious….Greek Mercenary Hoplites WERE BETTER!!!
Personally, I think Immortals should be 2-2-1, +1 hit point, cost 50, upgrade to “Hired Hoplites”, and have a defensive bombardment of 2 or 3 with a range of zero (in reality they were armed with spears + bows. It’s hard to see, but if you look closely the Civ3 Immortal actually carries a bow case on his back).

Having said that, I very much doubt that I can persuade anyone to downgrade their favourite ancient Civ3 unit just because it’s more realistic!
(“Oh well….at least you tried Kryten, at least you tried”)

I love the idea of changing the Immortals to Spear wielding maniacs. Do you think you could do a conversion of the current Immortal and give him a spear instead of the sword? That way we can be more historically accurate and we can use the original immortal as a flavor unit for the Middle Eastern Civs.

 

[Kal-el]

I know there is that conversion of the Immortal with the Naginata, but I was hoping for something a bit more accurate.

 

[Colonel Kraken]

Hey Kryten, I just wanted to let you know that I've added you "Hired Hoplite" to my game as a generic Phalanx unit available to most civs. It looks absolutely beautiful in-game.

Thank you so much for such great work!

 

[Kryten]

Thank you Colonel Kraken (personally, I think it looks best in dark red or purple civ colours....but then I think that ALL the units look better in dark colours....not pink!).

To Kal-el,

Originally posted by Kal-el Do you think you could do a conversion of the current Immortal and give him a spear instead of the sword?

Sorry it's taken me a few days to answer you.
Yes, this is one of the simple little conversions that I've had in mind, along with giving the Knight their main historical weapon.....the lance.

Histoically, the Immortals were equipped with short spears, bows, and a 'figure-of-eight' cello shaped shield (like the one that the Civ3 Legionary is carrying....and they NEVER used in reality!).

I'll add it to my list, but I should warn you that I have almost a dozen Alexander the Great units to finish first, so won't be able to do this one for a month or two.
Leave it with me......

 

[Kal-el]

I can wait.

 

[Neomega]

Kryten, you should go to the tutorial in my signature (make a unit with Rhinoceros 2.0), and at least download rhinoceros 2.0. I think you will have a lot of fun, and cut down your workload by 90%. It really only takes a couple of hours to learn.

I too made my first unit cut and paste, so I learned alot from that experience, but seeing how much work you have done in the cut and paste arena, you should have no trouble moving to the next level.

These look great BTW

 

[Neomega]

Kryten, you should go to the tutorial in my signature (make a unit with Rhinoceros 2.0), and at least download rhinoceros 2.0. I think you will have a lot of fun, and cut down your workload by 90%. It really only takes a couple of hours to learn.

I too made my first unit cut and paste, so I learned alot from that experience, but seeing how much work you have done in the cut and paste arena, you should have no trouble moving to the next level.

These look great BTW

 

[Kryten]

I promise, I promise, I promise ( ) Neomega that I WILL use your excellent tutorial (which I have printed and read) to make proper 3D units.....when I get time.

It's just that Exsanguination is desperately waiting for another half a dozen units for the "Alex the Great" scenario, and I fear that trying to learn a new method at this moment will delay things even further (old dogs and new tricks springs to mind ).

Once all the "Alex" units are done I will have more free time to learn the in's-'n-out's of 3D units. But for the moment, I'll just have to use the old-fashioned/time-consuming 'cut-'n-paste' method.
(Although I DO wish that you had posted that tutorial six months ago! )

 

[shramj]

Very nice work Kryten, I have been away for a while and haven't had a chance to use these units until now. Nice work!

 

[horsematrix]

it shows you put a lot of hard work into these units so good work and keep up the awesome units!awesome

 

[Mephansteras]

Wow. Nice history lesson!

Not sure how I'm going to use these guys, but...I'll get some of them in! I love the capes!