El-J 01 South Vietnam ~ Full Metal Jacket The Revenge of Madame Nhu

[Bede]

The game is based on El Justo's Vietnam scenario. This team plays South
Vietnam in a race for Victory Points against the another team playing North Vietnam.

Our Leader



Her Gunny



The Theme Song

Yeah, come on all of you, big strong men,
Uncle Sam needs your help again.
He's got himself in a terrible jam
Way down yonder in Vietnam
So put down your books and pick up a gun,
We're gonna have a whole lotta fun.

And it's one, two, three,
What are we fighting for ?
Don't ask me, I don't give a damn,
Next stop is Vietnam;
And it's five, six, seven,
Open up the pearly gates,
Well there ain't no time to wonder why,
Whoopee! we're all gonna die.

Well, come on generals, let's move fast;
Your big chance has come at last.
Gotta go out and get those reds —
The only good commie is the one who's dead
And you know that peace can only be won
When we've blown 'em all to kingdom come.

And it's one, two, three,
What are we fighting for ?
Don't ask me, I don't give a damn,
Next stop is Vietnam;
And it's five, six, seven,
Open up the pearly gates,
Well there ain't no time to wonder why
Whoopee! we're all gonna die.

Roster

Bede
AlCosta
wolf_66
cubsfan6506
Tank_Guy#3

We are currently waiting on the .biq to begin play.

AlCosta sent this in a PM

Spoiler :

GOOD MORNING VIETNAM! Hey this is not a test, this is rock and roll. Time to rock it from the Delta to the DMZ! (You have to include one Vietnam movie reference in here )



As you might (or might not) know, we are the five players for the South Vietnam team in the Full Metal Jacket SG. Also, as you might (or might not) know, I helped BETA-test The Vietnam War for El Justo, so I know some loopholes and what not.



We need to think of a strategy for our game, and we're going to need to stick with it, because trying to do two different things at once is hard, if not possible. Believe me, I've tried. The South Vietnamese get a lot, and I mean, a lot of auto-produced units, and they are all very strong (they're US units). There are 2 strategies that I have tried while playing as the South, and they're both pretty effective in terms of securing victory points.



Strategy 1 is to invade North Vietnam from the border between the countries. This strategy works efficiently against an AI opponent who cannot react as fast, but after several turns, you start to lose units and support units making it further to push on. I made it up to Than Hoa using this strategy (you'll see it when you get the .biq). The thing to remember is that US Infantry and Marines are a lot stronger than North Vietnamese Infantry. South Vietnamese usually have little trouble taking them down with US bombing strikes. We have 2 carrier groups of about 20 planes each, along with several South Vietnamese planes based in Saigon and other important cities. Also, with this strategy, we can take care of the Vietcong throughout our countryside sort of efficiently. At its basic level, it would require us to use our Delta and Ranger teams to crawl throughout our countryside spotting Vietcong units for our Bombers and Fighters to bomb. Then, we take care of them with our South Vietnamese units via Huey helicopters. The Huey is used to bring Infantry units all throughout the map in a single turn, so we can bring soldiers from any city to about any spot on the map. This strategy needs to work from Turn 1 to succeed, because if we get bogged down in either spot, we could be in trouble.



Strategy 2 is to focus on our countryside VP locations and the Ho Chi Minh trail. This would require extensive use of Delta and Ranger units to look for locations, followed by extended bombing runs from our planes based off of carriers. This strategy, as far as I can tell (I've been using it in my recent game), is not as effective or fast. But it most likely works better in the longer run. This strategy requires that we keep recycling units to defend our new VP locations, because the North Vietnamese, in my experience, will continue to send units after us. It also means we'd have to send many units to the border cities with the Ho Chi Minh Trail, because this is where most of the NV units come from.



Just some things to remember/take note of for this scenario. IIRC, North Vietnamese units can use our railroads, so it might be a good strategy for us to keep some units at random points in our railroads to keep them from moving about our country quickly. Be careful of using Delta and Ranger units in combat, they are so crucial, I don't think I can even put it into words how much you need these guys as South Vietnam. In fact, I'd recommend not using them in combat unless you have a sure win. Also, naval combat in this scenario is non-existent to useless. Only 2 of our ships (in the last BETA test, IIRC, El J changed it) can move. NV only has 2 ships, a junk ship and a transport, and our Radar Picket ships will dominate them in combat. I've been using these ships as a way to monitor Haiphong. Also, be wary of making bombing runs over Hanoi and Haiphong. Both of these places are protected by MiG's and AA's. Also, don't think the Ho Chi Minh trail is 100% safe to bomb either, there are plenty of MiG's and AA's in that area too.



Please read and reply to the whole team (AlCosta, Bede, cubsfan6506, Tank Guy#3, and wolf_66). Please review these strategies, and feel free to comment and/or ask questions about the strategies and scenario in general.

 

[Red Door]

My thoughts continued:

Spoiler For Non-Charlie Only :

I personally think we should go with Strategy 1, but be prepared to go with a back up in case our initial attack fails to do anything.

 

[choxorn]

lurker's comment: Spamming to suscribe...

 

[cubsfan6506]

Is thsi a private thread i don't think we should be giving away our strategies.

 

[cubsfan6506]

My thoughts continued:

Spoiler For Non-Charlie Only :

I personally think we should go with Strategy 1, but be prepared to go with a back up in case our initial attack fails to do anything.

By the way want to tell us the commie strategies.

 

[Bede]

This is not a private thread - we will have to depend on honorable opponents not to lurk, just as we will be honorable and not lurk the other thread. I know Whomp and he will not tolerate that sort of activity on the part of the NV team, just as I will not tolerate it on the part of this team. And the same applies to spoiler information gained by peeking at the other team's .biq file.

So no lurking and no peeking, otherwise I will send Madame Nhu and her Provisional Women's Army to hunt you down.

I have opened up the game and played a couple of turns just to get a feel for the mechanics. It is a really well put together scenario goodjob: El Justo)

There is a lot of territory on the map and many different ways to move units around, and there are a lot of units to play with; it also seems that the opponent has a lot of units as well, many of them invisible; the turn times will be lengthy. So El J's suggestion of a five turn set is clearly justified.

Because there is so much to do, and much of it unfamiliar to me at least, I propose that all turn sets be preceeded by a summary plan which after any discussion should be executed as closely to the plan as possible. Otherwise I fear that the team could end up working at cross purposes.

AlCosta's familiarity with the scenario suggests he should be anointed as Chief of Staff. Any objections?

 

[Red Door]

Is thsi a private thread i don't think we should be giving away our strategies.

No, but we trust our no-good Commie enemies to not look. Use spoilers to relay important info.

By the way want to tell us the commie strategies.

1st post in the spoiler. I put all the info you'll need.

But, seriously, if y'all have questions, please holler. Even if it seems stupid, it's better just to ask.

 

[cubsfan6506]

No, but we trust our no-good Commie enemies to not look. Use spoilers to relay important info.



1st post in the spoiler. I put all the info you'll need.

But, seriously, if y'all have questions, please holler. Even if it seems stupid, it's better just to ask.

Couldn't we request a moderater to make private threads. Whomp Cough Cough.

 

[Red Door]

Couldn't we request a moderater to make private threads. Whomp Cough Cough.

You can't make private threads. There's no such things.

 

[cubsfan6506]

You can't make private threads. There's no such things.

really i really thought there was.

 

[gmaharriet]

really i really thought there was.

lurker's comment: They are used for teams in the MTDG games, but you're talking about 50 or 60+ players (I haven't counted heads recently) involved and a complete sub-forum. I doubt if this would qualify.

Either you trust people to be honorable or you don't. Cheating would take all the fun out of a game like this, IMHO.

 

[Red Door]

We should start picking an order. I'd rather be in the middle than at the beginning, but anything works.

 

[Bede]

It looks like we are still waiting for wolf_66 and Tank_Guy #3 to check in to the thread.

So a roster order could look like this

cubsfan
Bede
AlCosta
Tank_Guy #3
wolf_66

I like Al's plan with a change that secures the Victory Points inside our borders before beginning the direct attack north. Unless I have completely forgotten the rules you need to have the VP occupied by a unit before the points start to accumulate and there are several VP's available for occupation along the border with Cambodia IIRC and there are some militia units which can do the occupying while the ARVN replace them in the border towns. Since the VP's are likely held by invisible VC troops the militia will be insufficient to capture them. I envision a sequence that starts with inserting a Special Forces unit in line of sight of the VP then bringing in artillery support and calling in air strikes on their heads before attacking with either the Light Armor or the ACAV's.

Question for Al - does breaking the road and rail connection along the HCM Trail have any effect on the resources used to generate VC units?

If it does the Thai based aircraft can do some of that with support from the carrier group in the offshore to the SE while the carrier group in the north can start interdicting roads to NV border towns along the DMZ while we sort out what is needed to occupy the in border VPs along the Cambodian border.

The very first turn promises to be a very long one as the cities need to be sorted out for food, gold shields and production orders while the available troops are checked out and sent on their way to whatever VP's we want to occupy first.

 

[cubsfan6506]

It looks like we are still waiting for wolf_66 and Tank_Guy #3 to check in to the thread.

So a roster order could look like this

cubsfan
Bede
AlCosta
Tank_Guy #3
wolf_66

I like Al's plan with a change that secures the Victory Points inside our borders before beginning the direct attack north. Unless I have completely forgotten the rules you need to have the VP occupied by a unit before the points start to accumulate and there are several VP's available for occupation along the border with Cambodia IIRC and there are some militia units which can do the occupying while the ARVN replace them in the border towns. Since the VP's are likely held by invisible VC troops the militia will be insufficient to capture them. I envision a sequence that starts with inserting a Special Forces unit in line of sight of the VP then bringing in artillery support and calling in air strikes on their heads before attacking with either the Light Armor or the ACAV's.

Question for Al - does breaking the road and rail connection along the HCM Trail have any effect on the resources used to generate VC units?

If it does the Thai based aircraft can do some of that with support from the carrier group in the offshore to the SE while the carrier group in the north can start interdicting roads to NV border towns along the DMZ while we sort out what is needed to occupy the in border VPs along the Cambodian border.

The very first turn promises to be a very long one as the cities need to be sorted out for food, gold shields and production orders while the available troops are checked out and sent on their way to whatever VP's we want to occupy first.

Any volunteers to go first.

 

[Red Door]

Lines form on my face and hands. Lines form on the ups and downs. I'm in the middle without any plans, I'm a boy and I'm a man. I'm Eighteen...and I don't know what I want.

Spoiler Non-Charlie Eyes Only :

It looks like we are still waiting for wolf_66 and Tank_Guy #3 to check in to the thread.

I got a PM back from Tank_Guy #3, he apparently wanted to be a Charlie, but since he was late, he got stuck with us. Hopefully we'll hear from him soon.

So a roster order could look like this

cubsfan
Bede
AlCosta
Tank_Guy #3
wolf_66

Sounds good, let's hope you're good Bede and Tank_Guy#3, because you'll be removing and fixing potential mistakes by me.

I like Al's plan with a change that secures the Victory Points inside our borders before beginning the direct attack north. Unless I have completely forgotten the rules you need to have the VP occupied by a unit before the points start to accumulate and there are several VP's available for occupation along the border with Cambodia IIRC and there are some militia units which can do the occupying while the ARVN replace them in the border towns. Since the VP's are likely held by invisible VC troops the militia will be insufficient to capture them. I envision a sequence that starts with inserting a Special Forces unit in line of sight of the VP then bringing in artillery support and calling in air strikes on their heads before attacking with either the Light Armor or the ACAV's.

Yes, we need to have VP locations occupied by our units to get points.
And those VP's available for occupation, they're not so much available as heavily guarded. The Militia units are too weak to defend border towns and VP locations, I suggest we use them to guard relatively safe coast cities (one's which don't auto-produce US units) and use the ARVNs backed with artillery in border towns and border VP locations. I suggest we divide our country into 3 zones, South, Middle, and North, and keep an equal number of VC "spotters" in each to go looking for the VC. Then, as bede suggests, we bring in the Artil. and Bombers, then come with stronger Armor and US units to finish the job, then leave the spots in the hands of the ARVN units.

Question for Al - does breaking the road and rail connection along the HCM Trail have any effect on the resources used to generate VC units?

No, because Vietcong units are auto-produced by barracks in HCM Trail cities. The more effective strategy would be to get rid of these cities or heavy air bombings.

If it does the Thai based aircraft can do some of that with support from the carrier group in the offshore to the SE while the carrier group in the north can start interdicting roads to NV border towns along the DMZ while we sort out what is needed to occupy the in border VPs along the Cambodian border.

The Thai based aircrafts are mostly F-100 Wild Weasels. These things have unlimited range, so I think we can do whatever we want with them. The SE Carrier group (we should start thinking of names to call them in thread talk) planes are a healthy mix, but some of the planes' range barely reaches VC bases in the far south of our country. The N Carrier Group should be ready to bomb positions in North Vietnam, perhaps we could slow down a potential NV invasion by killing the railroads on the coast of North Vietnam. Also, be very, very wary of Haiphong Alley, there are at least 5 AA guns and MiG's lurking there. We cannot afford to lose many planes, as our production queue's will need to be focused on infantry and armor.

The very first turn promises to be a very long one as the cities need to be sorted out for food, gold shields and production orders while the available troops are checked out and sent on their way to whatever VP's we want to occupy first.

Whoever does have this first turn NEEDS to make sure that all cities, especially ones with VP locations are heavily enough defended to counter a VC attack with 1 or 2 infantry. They also need to make sure that they get rid of as many as Charlie as fast as possible without losing too many units, because believe me, the Vietcong in this scenario are fast in backing up their own units. Also, make sure the mountain towns in our NW corner are backed up, in my experience, this has been the heaviest presence of VC activity.

 

[Red Door]

It looks like we're playing at hardest difficult level. I'm pretty bad at micro-management, so this should be a challenge for me. Is anyone here good at it?

Whomp's Post Confirming that NV is playing at the hardest level

 

[choxorn]

lurker's comment: Why you show that post?

EDIT: This was before he edited saying what the link was for.

 

[cubsfan6506]

It looks like we're playing at hardest difficult level. I'm pretty bad at micro-management, so this should be a challenge for me. Is anyone here good at it?

Whomp's Post Confirming that NV is playing at the hardest level

No im also pretty bad i would say my expertise is at military management. By the way my name is charlie.

 

[cubsfan6506]

Spoiler :

I believe we should use strategy one but bomb their roads for four turns first the rebuild the roads with our combat engineers.
Also to destroy the roads you only need to bomb every other row of the roads, except near cities.

 

[Bede]

There are those who call me a "Master MM'er". I prefer to think I ain't bad so I guess we can play this one at Sid, or whatever it's called.

Since that seems to be that and the MM will be the bulk of the first set, I guess I'm up.

And the roster looks like this

Bede - up
cubsfan aka charlie - on deck
AlCosta - waiting to pull a rabbit out of the hat.
wolf_66
Tank_Guy #3

So here is the plan:
Set up the cities for max output, and if they are long food, hire a bunch of tax guys.

Insert SF troops at the VP locations inside our borders and call in the artillery and air.

Begin the reduction of the NV road net north of the DMZ.