I think that I've set myself up for a mighty fall. After all this gazing into the future and mid-term strategy making, now watch me as I lead our magnificent armies to a standstill and the next person is left still playing against Carthage! 
eldar03: Playing Footsie (Monarch, slow units only)
- Thread starter eldar
- Start date
Minute Man
Prince
Sorry, didn't realize you were waiting for input. Attacking the Greeks is fine with me. We still owe Alex a good butt-kicking in return for attacking us earlier. And it would be sort of nice to finish things off in the east and only have one front to defend before we turn our attentions to the west.
About pikes...I think we do need some. First, they'll upgrade to our UU (though at a hefty price tag). Second, once the AI does get around to discovering Gunpowder, we're probably going to need some bombardment to soften up the defenders before sending in the MDI's, and it'd be a good idea to have some defenders to cover the stack.
I agree with not researching Chivalry. Really, what's the point? I don't think KT is worth it...one templar every five turns isn't going to amount to all that much. We are going to want cannons at some point, but that's about it.
About pikes...I think we do need some. First, they'll upgrade to our UU (though at a hefty price tag). Second, once the AI does get around to discovering Gunpowder, we're probably going to need some bombardment to soften up the defenders before sending in the MDI's, and it'd be a good idea to have some defenders to cover the stack.
I agree with not researching Chivalry. Really, what's the point? I don't think KT is worth it...one templar every five turns isn't going to amount to all that much. We are going to want cannons at some point, but that's about it.
eldar
ChiefTank
We're not going to need Cannons - check the Dom tiles now, add Greece, Spain, and see what you get. This is winnable with current tech and units.
turn 0 (250)
A little bit of mm to ensure growth in one turn in Paris and increase production in Chartres and Antioch-switch to settler as it is food rich and we need to fill the space that Carthage will leave. switch off research as suggested by Veovim.
turn 1 (260)
Stack moves adjacent to Carthage. I was also going to get Antioch to build a worker but now I'll wait until it produces a settler.
turn 2 (270)
Stack moves across river to improve attack odds next turn. Pike enters Greece just to get a better map.
IBT
Greeks ask us to leave but do not insist.
Paris:musket>musket; Chartres: settler>MDI
turn 3 (280)
Attack on Carthage: Treb does nothing, first vet MDI redlines reg merc but loses. Second does the same but there are now just two 1 hp defenders which are dispatched with no problem. We take 171g and raze Carthage. (I've never razed the SoZ before!) Take Pike out of Greece (don't want to ruin our rep), empty Carthagian towns out of the front line and prepare to take on Greece.
IBT
Foreign settlers appear at our borders!
Seoul:MDI>MDI; P'yong
ike>rax; Antioch:settler>MDI
turn 4 (290)
Forces assemble for two-pronged attack into Greece. I'm leaving the musket at home as we could make better use of our GA with more towns.
IBT
Rhiems:MDI>MDI; Marseillesike>MDI
turn 5 (300)
Declare on Greeks and two stacks enter their lands.
IBT
Avignon:temple>MDI.
turn 6 (310)
The DoW was popular with our citizens-turn off lux slider. Kill archer as our stacks land next to Athens and Sparta.
IBT
Greek horses arrive.
Paris:musket>musket.
turn 7 (320)
Lose two MDIs in taking Sparta and we have excess wines. Lose two more MDIs taking Athens but we now have the Oracle. The loss of culture opens up vast tracts of land for the foreign settlers to take up.
IBT
Horse attacks MDI but withdraws. Greeks send a galley down the western shore.
Seoul:MDI>MDI.
turn 8 (330)
Paris is not so happy so up lux to 10% again. Build Besancon (rax) upstream from Carthage ruins and other settler in place on the ruins.
IBT
Perseike>MDI
turn 9 (340)
Build Rouen (rax). Greek galley dropped off hoplite and settler by the Rouen settler-thanks for the slaves, Alex! Send smallish stack towards Thermopylae.
IBT
Chartres:MDI>MDI
Spain have built ToA in Madrid!
turn 10 (350)
Troops reach the edge of Thermo.
Before you press enter:
I was going to send our small force around Athens into Delphi to attack next turn to relieve the cultural pressure in Athens but I'll leave that up to you. I have moved none of these troops and there is also a MDI in Utica that you can move in that direction if you want to wait.
Current Production:
Paris can exceed 20 sheilds/turn from next go with an additional pop point and a little mm. Seoul has just reached 15 sheilds/turn so could switch to musket production. Antioch is now at 10 sheilds/turn and Tours will have the aquaduct in place for next turn so will become useful again. Most importantly we get the FP next turn which could tranform some of these fringe cities.
Cash!
We have a fair bit of cash to upgrade units and rush fringe production (current growth +113gpt) but I didn't use it with the FP so close to finishing.
Next Target?
Hopefully you can finish off the Greeks with the limited forces over there. (They have three towns still but could be down to one after the next turn!) We almost have roads to Ottomans but maybe the Spanish could be our next target (note road to Barca!) with their recent build of the ToA. Put that with our captured Oracle and we'll have a powerful combination. Lines of communication will not be stretched either.
A little bit of mm to ensure growth in one turn in Paris and increase production in Chartres and Antioch-switch to settler as it is food rich and we need to fill the space that Carthage will leave. switch off research as suggested by Veovim.
turn 1 (260)
Stack moves adjacent to Carthage. I was also going to get Antioch to build a worker but now I'll wait until it produces a settler.
turn 2 (270)
Stack moves across river to improve attack odds next turn. Pike enters Greece just to get a better map.
IBT
Greeks ask us to leave but do not insist.
Paris:musket>musket; Chartres: settler>MDI
turn 3 (280)
Attack on Carthage: Treb does nothing, first vet MDI redlines reg merc but loses. Second does the same but there are now just two 1 hp defenders which are dispatched with no problem. We take 171g and raze Carthage. (I've never razed the SoZ before!) Take Pike out of Greece (don't want to ruin our rep), empty Carthagian towns out of the front line and prepare to take on Greece.
IBT
Foreign settlers appear at our borders!
Seoul:MDI>MDI; P'yong
ike>rax; Antioch:settler>MDIturn 4 (290)
Forces assemble for two-pronged attack into Greece. I'm leaving the musket at home as we could make better use of our GA with more towns.
IBT
Rhiems:MDI>MDI; Marseilles
ike>MDI turn 5 (300)
Declare on Greeks and two stacks enter their lands.
IBT
Avignon:temple>MDI.
turn 6 (310)
The DoW was popular with our citizens-turn off lux slider. Kill archer as our stacks land next to Athens and Sparta.
IBT
Greek horses arrive.
Paris:musket>musket.
turn 7 (320)
Lose two MDIs in taking Sparta and we have excess wines. Lose two more MDIs taking Athens but we now have the Oracle. The loss of culture opens up vast tracts of land for the foreign settlers to take up.
IBT
Horse attacks MDI but withdraws. Greeks send a galley down the western shore.
Seoul:MDI>MDI.
turn 8 (330)
Paris is not so happy so up lux to 10% again. Build Besancon (rax) upstream from Carthage ruins and other settler in place on the ruins.
IBT
Perse
ike>MDIturn 9 (340)
Build Rouen (rax). Greek galley dropped off hoplite and settler by the Rouen settler-thanks for the slaves, Alex! Send smallish stack towards Thermopylae.
IBT
Chartres:MDI>MDI
Spain have built ToA in Madrid!
turn 10 (350)
Troops reach the edge of Thermo.
Before you press enter:
I was going to send our small force around Athens into Delphi to attack next turn to relieve the cultural pressure in Athens but I'll leave that up to you. I have moved none of these troops and there is also a MDI in Utica that you can move in that direction if you want to wait.
Current Production:
Paris can exceed 20 sheilds/turn from next go with an additional pop point and a little mm. Seoul has just reached 15 sheilds/turn so could switch to musket production. Antioch is now at 10 sheilds/turn and Tours will have the aquaduct in place for next turn so will become useful again. Most importantly we get the FP next turn which could tranform some of these fringe cities.
Cash!
We have a fair bit of cash to upgrade units and rush fringe production (current growth +113gpt) but I didn't use it with the FP so close to finishing.
Next Target?
Hopefully you can finish off the Greeks with the limited forces over there. (They have three towns still but could be down to one after the next turn!) We almost have roads to Ottomans but maybe the Spanish could be our next target (note road to Barca!) with their recent build of the ToA. Put that with our captured Oracle and we'll have a powerful combination. Lines of communication will not be stretched either.
eldar
ChiefTank
Nice going Tone. I think Spain will make an ideal next target - ToA should be the game-winner.
Variant Rules:
We may never build ground units with a move rate above 1. This means no upgrades allowed to Mech Inf (if the game gets that far) or Radar Artillery (again...), of course.
No Armies, no SoZ!
The exception: Leaders. Of course, we have no means of preventing these from occuring, other than not attacking with Elites. SGLs are on too, I think. If we get a Leader of either type:
- Must move to the nearest city (MGLs can wait until a city's captured, if that's how they were generated) and rush an improvement/Small Wonder immediately.
- No Great Wonder-rushing with SGLs.
Standard SG rules/etiquette apply.
Roster:
eldar <- on deck
Ville
Veovim
Tone <- just played
Minute Man <- up
Variant Rules:
We may never build ground units with a move rate above 1. This means no upgrades allowed to Mech Inf (if the game gets that far) or Radar Artillery (again...), of course.
No Armies, no SoZ!
The exception: Leaders. Of course, we have no means of preventing these from occuring, other than not attacking with Elites. SGLs are on too, I think. If we get a Leader of either type:
- Must move to the nearest city (MGLs can wait until a city's captured, if that's how they were generated) and rush an improvement/Small Wonder immediately.
- No Great Wonder-rushing with SGLs.
Standard SG rules/etiquette apply.
Roster:
eldar <- on deck
Ville
Veovim
Tone <- just played
Minute Man <- up
I posted the report in a hurry just before rushing out for a meal. I've just returned to see that 'colon p' is the code for . I was going to edit it but on reflection I shall leave it. It adds a certain something to the report. 
(I told you that I don't normally build pikes which is why I wasn't aware of this before now!)
. I was going to edit it but on reflection I shall leave it. It adds a certain something to the report. (I told you that I don't normally build pikes which is why I wasn't aware of this before now!)
Minute Man
Prince
Got it. Kick butt and take (Greek) names. Begin preparing for a war with Spain. Sounds like a plan.
Minute Man
Prince
Veovim said:Also, our golden age hasn't been triggered yet. I think that if we wait until Spain to do that we might not get the full 20 turns, so we should do it now.
Yeah, I don't really understand why I keep seeing people bend over backwards to avoid using a perfectly good UU just because the timing of the GA isn't completely, totally, 100% optimal. If we were in Despotism, I'd understand, but... My philosophy is to use the UU to best advantage and take the GA when it comes.
Anyway, I think our muskets are too far west to be of much use against Greece. But they will be prominently featured in the Spanish campaign, if I have anything to say about it.
Also, is there some reason we haven't built even a single market?
What, don't we like having gold and happy people?Not that any of this is going to matter in this game, of course. I think we're pretty much entering the mopping up stages here. So I'll get out my mop and see how many opponents I can sweep away.
eldar
ChiefTank
Indeed - 1 Market = 3.333333333333333 Swords = 2.5 MedInfs. So we've not really needed them - and probably won't.
Now it'd be nice if we could finish this off before Easter weekend. Three guesses as to where I'll be going....
Now it'd be nice if we could finish this off before Easter weekend. Three guesses as to where I'll be going....
Minute Man
Prince
Well, I do think markets might have been useful earlier. Though admittedly I wasn't expecting us to be able to just roll over everybody this quickly with MDI's and pikes. I agree that there's not much point in building them now.
I'll get this played tonight. Then it's up to you.
eldar said:
I'll get this played tonight. Then it's up to you.
Agree totally but I was not prepared to send units that I had built in my latest turns to defeat a weak enemy. I wanted new units to be ready for the next attack as soon as Greece had folded (or even before). I did not want all our best units taking four turns to get back into position once they had healed.Minute Man said:
Are we planning to milk or conquer? IMO I never considered a market in my turns as I could always see where the next lux was coming from. We bought our happiness with swords & MDIs rather than markets, that's allMinute Man said:Also, is there some reason we haven't built even a single market?
Now if we were running out of new luxes to get and/or research was a priority then I can see their use but I only build them when I need them in games like this. (I am doing my utmost to curb the builder element in me). We have stacks of cash and the lux slider is so low at the moment why bother with them?Minute Man
Prince
Pre-flight:
I decide I do like the attack on Delphi. We have 3 MDI's and a sword, which hopefully should be enough. So I send the troops in.
I rush a settler out of Sparta. This seems better than starving the city, since we've got a big gap to fill. The citizen will be Greek, but hopefully that won't be a problem in a few turns.
Switch Pasargadae to a harbor - hopefully we won't need the temple, and we need more food there.
1 - 360 AD
Paris musket->musket. Seoul MDI->Musket. Sparta settler->barracks. Tours aqueduct->MDI. Lyons Forbidden Palace->MDI. Antioch MDI->MDI.
Get a message that the Spanish are building the Pyramids.
The Battle of Thermopylae commences. There'll be no repeat of history, as I take the city with no losses.
The Battle of Delphi is kind of a draw - lose two MDI's, kill two Hoplites. Unfortunately, there's a third, so fail to take the city. I'll have to back off and try again.
With the FP, we're at +138 gpt, so I decide to invest some of this huge pile of cash in building up our military. So I rush a couple of MDI's in less-productive cities and will continue to do so for the rest of my turns.
2 - 370 AD
Persepolis, Marseilles, Chartres MDI->MDI.
IT - A Greek horseman rides out of Corinth and almost kills a passing MDI. Where did the Greeks get horses?
3 - 380 AD
Pyongyang barracks->MDI. Tours, Antioch, Rheims MDI->MDI.
4 - 390 AD
Paris musket->MDI. Persepolis MDI->MDI. Lyons MDI->musket.
Found Grenoble in the gap between Athens and Sparta, just to take up space.
We now have four muskets and an even dozen MDI's in the vicinity of Paris. That should be enough to get the ball rolling, don't you think?
So I move a big stack to the Spanish border. We'll go in next turn.
5 - 400 AD
Seoul musket->musket. Tours, Antioch, Chartres MDI->MDI. Leptis Magna pike (?) -> harbor.
Call up Isabella and tell her that she's looking very lovely today, but her pretty head really would look better on the nice shiny pike we've reserved for her at the gates of Paris. For some reason she seems offended by this, as when I politely ask her to remove the random settler pair she has wandering across our territory, she declares war.
So I got some war happiness out of the deal to boot. Time to send in the troops...
On the eastern front, our army is sufficiently healed, so I march on Delphi again.
6 - 410 AD
Paris, Pyongyang, Avignon, Rheims MDI->MDI.
Istanbul builds the Pyramids. Way to stay relevant, Osman.
The second Battle of Delphi goes much better than the first, as we capture the city without loss. Next stop: Corinth. It's on a hill, though, so I'll take a few turns to heal first.
At Barcelona, lose a couple of MDI's to a pair of obnoxious spearmen, but take the city. I also pick off that settler pair that Izzy though was worth going to war over.
I just noticed that we never got around to founding embassies. They're cheap, so I establish them with the Ottos and Vikings.
7 - 420 AD
Pasargadae harbor->barracks. Tours, Antioch MDI->MDI.
Just shuffling troops around. Madrid has big culture borders, so it's going to take a few turns to get there.
8 - 430 AD
Paris, Chartres MDI->MDI. Lyons musket->musket.
More troops moving. I send our galley on a suicide run, just because I want to see if there's anything out there.
9 - 440 AD
Seoul musket->musket. Marseilles MDI->MDI. Theveste pike->harbor.
Our galley sinks. I guess we'll never know...
10 - 450 AD
Paris, Tours, Antioch, Chartres MDI->MDI.
OK, time to make up for the lack of news for the last few turns....
And look, we captured the MoM!
Oh, yeah, and some great big temple, too....
So here's the current situation:
I have another SoD on its way to Seville, and more troops on the way to the front. We have an ungodly number of MDI's being produced (especially since I've been doing a bit of rushing here and there). After we take Seville, we might as well just declare war on the Ottomans and roll over everything in our path until we hit the domination limit.
Oh, and Izzy hasn't even put up enough of a fight to trigger our GA yet. Not that we really need it....
Have fun, eldar! Time to get some quality
in before the holiday weekend....
I decide I do like the attack on Delphi. We have 3 MDI's and a sword, which hopefully should be enough. So I send the troops in.
I rush a settler out of Sparta. This seems better than starving the city, since we've got a big gap to fill. The citizen will be Greek, but hopefully that won't be a problem in a few turns.
Switch Pasargadae to a harbor - hopefully we won't need the temple, and we need more food there.
1 - 360 AD
Paris musket->musket. Seoul MDI->Musket. Sparta settler->barracks. Tours aqueduct->MDI. Lyons Forbidden Palace->MDI. Antioch MDI->MDI.
Get a message that the Spanish are building the Pyramids.
The Battle of Thermopylae commences. There'll be no repeat of history, as I take the city with no losses.
The Battle of Delphi is kind of a draw - lose two MDI's, kill two Hoplites. Unfortunately, there's a third, so fail to take the city. I'll have to back off and try again.
With the FP, we're at +138 gpt, so I decide to invest some of this huge pile of cash in building up our military. So I rush a couple of MDI's in less-productive cities and will continue to do so for the rest of my turns.
2 - 370 AD
Persepolis, Marseilles, Chartres MDI->MDI.
IT - A Greek horseman rides out of Corinth and almost kills a passing MDI. Where did the Greeks get horses?
3 - 380 AD
Pyongyang barracks->MDI. Tours, Antioch, Rheims MDI->MDI.
4 - 390 AD
Paris musket->MDI. Persepolis MDI->MDI. Lyons MDI->musket.
Found Grenoble in the gap between Athens and Sparta, just to take up space.
We now have four muskets and an even dozen MDI's in the vicinity of Paris. That should be enough to get the ball rolling, don't you think?
So I move a big stack to the Spanish border. We'll go in next turn.5 - 400 AD
Seoul musket->musket. Tours, Antioch, Chartres MDI->MDI. Leptis Magna pike (?) -> harbor.
Call up Isabella and tell her that she's looking very lovely today, but her pretty head really would look better on the nice shiny pike we've reserved for her at the gates of Paris. For some reason she seems offended by this, as when I politely ask her to remove the random settler pair she has wandering across our territory, she declares war.
So I got some war happiness out of the deal to boot. Time to send in the troops...
On the eastern front, our army is sufficiently healed, so I march on Delphi again.
6 - 410 AD
Paris, Pyongyang, Avignon, Rheims MDI->MDI.
Istanbul builds the Pyramids. Way to stay relevant, Osman.
The second Battle of Delphi goes much better than the first, as we capture the city without loss. Next stop: Corinth. It's on a hill, though, so I'll take a few turns to heal first.
At Barcelona, lose a couple of MDI's to a pair of obnoxious spearmen, but take the city. I also pick off that settler pair that Izzy though was worth going to war over.
I just noticed that we never got around to founding embassies. They're cheap, so I establish them with the Ottos and Vikings.
7 - 420 AD
Pasargadae harbor->barracks. Tours, Antioch MDI->MDI.
Just shuffling troops around. Madrid has big culture borders, so it's going to take a few turns to get there.
8 - 430 AD
Paris, Chartres MDI->MDI. Lyons musket->musket.
More troops moving. I send our galley on a suicide run, just because I want to see if there's anything out there.
9 - 440 AD
Seoul musket->musket. Marseilles MDI->MDI. Theveste pike->harbor.
Our galley sinks. I guess we'll never know...
10 - 450 AD
Paris, Tours, Antioch, Chartres MDI->MDI.
OK, time to make up for the lack of news for the last few turns....
And look, we captured the MoM!
Oh, yeah, and some great big temple, too....So here's the current situation:
I have another SoD on its way to Seville, and more troops on the way to the front. We have an ungodly number of MDI's being produced (especially since I've been doing a bit of rushing here and there). After we take Seville, we might as well just declare war on the Ottomans and roll over everything in our path until we hit the domination limit.
Oh, and Izzy hasn't even put up enough of a fight to trigger our GA yet. Not that we really need it....
Have fun, eldar! Time to get some quality
in before the holiday weekend....Nice going MM!
The horses came from Thermo. It was either held in reserve or the build started before you took their source on turn 1.
Once we have Seville are we going to declare on the Ottomans? They still haven't got Invention and with no research partners this will be their last tech if they get this far. If they get Theology we don't want that as it will make our Oracle obsolete. Chivalry will be useless to them as they have neither horses nor iron so we should only face archers and spears! Game over!
Sun Tzu-is that just a place holder? Your not expecting another turn in this game, are you?
The horses came from Thermo. It was either held in reserve or the build started before you took their source on turn 1.
Once we have Seville are we going to declare on the Ottomans? They still haven't got Invention and with no research partners this will be their last tech if they get this far. If they get Theology we don't want that as it will make our Oracle obsolete. Chivalry will be useless to them as they have neither horses nor iron so we should only face archers and spears! Game over!
Sun Tzu-is that just a place holder? Your not expecting another turn in this game, are you?
eldar
ChiefTank
I think I may get to finish it off tonight Still no GA 
I'll see if I can kick one off.
Still no GA I'll see if I can kick one off.
soul_warrior
Termite!
lurker's comment
just had to pop in and say to you all.
great game, and fast - considering you're only using slow unit
just had to pop in and say
to you all.great game, and fast - considering you're only using slow unit
eldar
ChiefTank
I finished it off this morning... no real hitches. I'll post the full report after work (~9 hours or so).
Minute Man
Prince
Tone said:
No, that was just a mistake on my part. The game kept suggesting Sun Tzu after I built pretty much everything, and I guess I clicked through the cities too fast on my last turn.
eldar
ChiefTank
Sorry about the extreme lateness - things got busy Thursday evening and I've been away all weekend. Here we are though:
2 470 Take Seville, declare on Ottos. Kill a Spanish Warrior with a Musket to kick off our GA.
3 480 First battle of Istanbul: their Spears are too much for our MedInfs! One survives .
4 490 Istanbul Rd2: It take 4 MedInfs to knock off one lousy Spear, but finally we take the city and some big pointy things made of stone.
5 500 The ToA expansions roll in, taking us to 61%. Bursa Rd1:Two Spears gone, no casualties.
6 510 Bursa Rd2: City falls.
7 520 Edrine: 3 Spears, no casualties.
8 530 A Reg Spanish Archer lands by Sparta, which is on a hill with a Vet Pike for defense. I ignore the Archer. Lose a single MedInf attacking Iznik.
9 540 Iznik Rd2: the Spears are stubborn but the city falls, we are over 66%. Trondheim adds to the total. Kill the Archer with a MedInf.
10 550 No flips in the IT, we win
Win/mini-map:
Next: progress maps and stuff, given our shaky start, might be interesting!
2 470 Take Seville, declare on Ottos. Kill a Spanish Warrior with a Musket to kick off our GA.
3 480 First battle of Istanbul: their Spears are too much for our MedInfs! One survives .
4 490 Istanbul Rd2: It take 4 MedInfs to knock off one lousy Spear, but finally we take the city and some big pointy things made of stone.
5 500 The ToA expansions roll in, taking us to 61%. Bursa Rd1:Two Spears gone, no casualties.
6 510 Bursa Rd2: City falls.
7 520 Edrine: 3 Spears, no casualties.
8 530 A Reg Spanish Archer lands by Sparta, which is on a hill with a Vet Pike for defense. I ignore the Archer. Lose a single MedInf attacking Iznik.
9 540 Iznik Rd2: the Spears are stubborn but the city falls, we are over 66%. Trondheim adds to the total. Kill the Archer with a MedInf.
10 550 No flips in the IT, we win
Win/mini-map:
Next: progress maps and stuff, given our shaky start, might be interesting!
