eldar08: Gridlocked!

[eldar]

I changed the roster around a little bit.

Roster:
...
eldar (de-militarized; lurking)
...

Now installed on Long Island and bored (gissa job!). I may consider pressing myself back into service. If I do I'll just post a got it and go....

 

[Rodent]

Thanks for Shifting me down the Roster. Not that I am scared of an Continental Invasion of course

 

[CommandoBob]

I plan to get a Strategy post up on Thursday and play over the weekend.

Just going from the notes and turnlogs, looks like we're ready to start Gridding Japan, but I'll soon know for sure.

 

[CommandoBob]

We can get an ROP with the Babylonians for cheap; they'll pay us 1 gold (all they have).

We need to upgrade our galleys to caravels before we worry about that ROP, however. Will send galleys to Tad's Jungle Mansion. It appears to be the only city on the east coast with a harbor.

I don't think we'll get to bother Japan in these turns, but we will be very ready to do so by turn 10.

Next player (after me) will have a lot of fun as we begin to grid Japan.

 

[CommandoBob]

Preflight
Republic, 0.10.0
627 gold, -57 gpt
Chemistry in 4 turns

Military
00 Settlers
07 Workers
55 Slaves
03 Spears
39 Swords
03 Horses
01 Pikes
03 Muskets
18 Catapults
05 Galleys
02 Army
06 Maces

Allowed Units: 78
Current units: 87
Cost per turn: 18 gold

Resorces Connected to Mayflower 871
02 Saltpeter
03 Iron
02 Horses
01 Dyes
02 Incense
03 Silks
05 Gems

We could really use a 5th luxury. There are Spices between Edo and Osaka.

Cycle through the cities; hire and fire some specialists.

Oea Ranch courthouse -> vCaravel in 35.
Salt Well Villa courthouse -> vCaravel in 30.
Moose Ranch courthouse -> trebuchet in 24.
The White House rMusket -> settler in 19.
Sin City Nasty courthouse -> settler in 21.
Sweet Young Thing courthouse -> aqueduct in 91.
Carthage courthouse -> harbor in 53.

Hit Enter.
[IBT 0750 AD]
Tad's jungle Mansion vMusket -> vMusket in 10.
Farmer's Club courthouse -> barracks in 8.

Zulu are building Leonardo's Workshop (Invention).
Zulu are buidling Sistine Chapel (Theology).
Greeks are building JS Bach's Cathedral (Music Theory).
Japan is building Leonardo's Workshop.
Japan is building Copernicus' Observatory (Astronomy).

Leonardo's Workshop is built in Kyoto, Japan.

Babylon is building Copernicus' Observatory.

1 0760 AD

Reassign some workers into more efficient stacks.
Upgrade a Galley to Caravel for 30 of 572 gold in Tad's Jungle Mansion.

Hire a geek in Tad's Jungle Mansion.
Hire a geek in St. Silky Jungly Mansion.
​

[IBT]
Mayflower 871 vMusket -> vMusket in 5.
Wild Horse Adult Resort market -> courthouse in 20; clown becomes a geek.

Zulu are building Copernicus' Observatory (Astronomy).
Zulu are buidling Sistine Chapel (Theology), again.
Zulu are building Copernicus' Observatory, again.
Greeks are buidling Sistine Chapel.
Greeks are building JS Bach's Cathedral (Music Theory), again.
Greeks are building Copernicus' Observatory.
Babylon is building JS Bach's Cathedral.

2 0770 AD

Upgrade another Galley to Caravel for 30 of 484 gold in Tad's Jungle Mansion.
Rush the barracks in Babylon Crossing for 60 of 454 gold. We have three chops that will complete in 2 turns and feed into this build. Only one is really needed, the others will be wasted.

Hire a geek in Sharon's Brothel & Bar.
Hire a geek in Fond of Females.
​

[IBT]
The Emperor's Club vMusket -> vMusket in 6.
Fond of Females worker -> worker in 10.
Babylon Crossing barracks -> settler in 30.
Sin City Nasty settler -> settler in 30.

3 0780 AD

Science to 80%, Chemistry in 1, -10 gpt.

Hire a geek in Pussycat Ranch.
Hire a geek in Puzzled Villagers.
Clown to geek in Persepolis Ranch.
​

[IBT]
Three chops complete around Babylon Crossing, all go to Babylon Crossing.
We learn Chemistry, start on Metallurgy, 6 turns at 80%.

Hayloft Adventure settler -> settler in 30.
Babylon Crossing settler -> settler in 30.

Sistine Chapel is built in Babylon, Babylonia.


4 0790 AD

Hire a geek in Spitzer's Shack.
Bordello Bluff wealth -> courthouse, makes 7 shields, only three are corrupt.
Hire a geek "in unhooks in front".

We sell Chemsitry to Greece for 123 gpt and 12 of 12 gold.

Science goes from 80%, -14gpt to 100%, +50 gpt, Metallurgy in 5, not 6.

Thank you, Alexandar of Greece!

The other civs have a total of 26 gold and 2 gpt for Chemistry. Too cheap.
​

[IBT]
Maybe I traded too soon. Greece lands six units near Moonlight Bunny Ranch; 2 rArchers, 1 rWarrior, 1 rHorse and 2 rKnights.

Moonlight Bunny Ranch vMusket -> vMusket in 6.
Playboy Mansion aqueduct -> vKnight in 6.

Zulu are building Copernicus' Observatory (Astronomy), once again.

Copernicus' Observatory is built in Ngome, Zululand.

Greeks are building JS Bach's Cathedral (Music Theory), once again.

JS Bach's Cathedral is built in Athens, Greece.


5 0800 AD

We move 3 vMuskets in Moonlight Bunny Ranch, which now has 4 defenders, all vMuskets.
Wake Army Lee and send northwards, for support.
Wake Army Washington and send northwards, for support.
Wake 6 catapults and move them into Moonlight Bunny Ranch.
Wake eSword on the mountain NW of the city and move into the city and fortify.
Wake vPike in Tad's Jungle Mansion and move onto that mountain tile and fortify.
Wake vMusket in Mayflower 871 and move to the mountain with the vPike, but it has no moves left and does not fortify.

I could talk to Alexander of Greece and ask him to move his troops, but do not. We are well defended in the only threaten city and I don't expect to lose five times to these forces.
Plus, they may change their mind.
But I do think they will attack, so let us get some War Happiness out of this mess.

Moonlight Bunny Ranch Area 800 AD

Spoiler :

Cycle through the cities.
Hire a geek in Stardust Ranch.
Hire a geek in Lecherville.
Hire a geek in Moonlight Bunny Ranch.
​

[IBT]
Bad News

Greeks Dow on us with 6 units inside our territory and an active deal in place. Will their Trade Rep get tarnished? Probably not.

Greeks lose an Archer attacking Moonlight Bunny Ranch, the rest move around the city.

Spitzer's Shack vMusket -> vKnight in 8.
Plain Jem Mansion aqueduct -> vMace in 8.

6 0810 AD

We're at -77 gpt right now. Drop science down to 70%, +33 gpt, Metallurgy in 4, not 3.

We can get Babylon into an MA on Greece for Chemistry. I gonna think about that.

The Greeks split up into two stacks, fast movers and foot sloggers.
Catapults redline the Knights and Horsie.

eSword vs. rKnight 1/3, a swing and a kill, but no promotion. Drat.
vMace vs. rKngith 1/3, and our Mace promotes to Elite.
vMace vs. rHorse 1/3, and all the fast movers are dead.

Catapults batter the Warrior and Archer into the red.

vSword vs rWarrior 1/3, Sword dodges the Archer's bombardment and kills the Warrior without getting hurt.
Army (Lee 12/12) vs. rArcher 1/3, Lee wins.

We are cleansed of the Greek infestation.

Even with their invasion force gutted and dead, the Greeks will not talk.

Upgrade third galley to Caravel for 30 of 307 gold.

Talk to Babylon again.
Military Alliance on Greece will cost us Chemistry (and we get Music Theory and all 6 of Babylon's gold) or 276 of 277 gold.

I decide that we need the gold more than the tech.

Babylon and Greece

Spoiler :

Greece now has one local enemy.

Zulu and Greece

Spoiler :

We get Zulus involved for 221 of 283 gold.

So now Greece has two local enemies.

Japan and Greece

Spoiler :

We get Japan into the fight with a little bit of gold, 1 gpt and 62 of our remaining 62 gold.

Greece has three local headaches. Idiots.

International

Spoiler :

That is a very pretty picture. I hope Alexandar can appreciate it.

Greece sold Chemistry to Japan and Zulu, so we did not have it to bargain with.

We have 0 gold, +33 gpt, Metallurgy in 4.
​

[IBT]
Mayflower 871 vMusket -> vMusket in 5.
St. Silky Jungly Mansion vMusket -> vMusket in 7.
Persepolis Ranch settler -> settler in 30.

7 0820 AD

We repostion our catapults and units around the capital.

Upgrade one more Galley to Caravel for 30 of 33 gold (+28 gpt).

The jungle SW of Sweet Young Thing is gone. Six slaves make a road, six slaves move SW to irrigate and are joined by a full-blooded native worker to complete the watering this turn.

Cycle through the cities, hiring and firing specialists. When it is done, we are at +20 gpt.
​

[IBT]
Japan drops off a settler pair rather close to our Iron colony, but not close enough to capture it in its initial nine tiles. We have three Iron connected.

8 0830 AD

The jungle between Lecherville and Eladar's Pastiesis gone, the six slaves road that tile and Eladar's Pasties is connected to the Greater Gridded Grouping.
Twelve slaves move into the jungle W of Sweet Young Thing; will start clearing the jungle next turn.

23 gold, +24 gpt, Metallurgy in 2.
​

[IBT]
Japan builds Nagaski on our soil.

Chicken Ranch courthouse -> granary in 7 (?).
Farmer's Club barracks -> vMace in 7.

9 0840 AD

Drop Science to 30%, Metallurgy in 1, +170 gpt.


Fond of Females hires a geek.
Stardust Ranch hires a geek.

Before the war Zulu and Babylon both had 13 cities; now they have 14. I think the Zulu captured Rhodes; it looks like Babylon may have taken a city just NW of Athens.
​

[IBT]
We learn Metallurgy, begin on Military Tradition in 9 at 30%.

The Emperor Club vMusket -> vKnight in 8.
Soapland vKnight -> vKnight in 10.

10 0850 AD

Our last Galley arrives in Tad's Jungle Mansion, but has no movement left to upgrade.

I see that we can build a city on the grid SW of Babylon Crossing. We have three settlers in that city, so I move on to the right location, and protect it with a Horse and Washington.

Chicken Ranch granary -> vKnight in 7.
Hire a geek in Salt Wells Villa.
Hire 2nd geek in The Dark Bush.

Increase Science to 70%, Military Tradition in 6, +28 gpt. At 80%, well, -31 gpt and still 6 turns.

Zulu are now at 15 cities, up 1, but I don't see where it is.
​

 

[CommandoBob]

I had planned to move our upgraded ships down towards Babylon Crossing but the Greek War stopped that. We have one galley left to upgrade; it arrived in Tad's Jungle Mansion this turn. The other 4 Caravels are still in that city.

We have workers ganged together to work better. Four slaves in a group to irrigate is the most common arrangment. We also have a group of 12 slaves clearing jungle, a group of 6 slaves clearing jungle and a group of 4 workers clearing jungle.

In Old Persia we have two mountains that are being roaded and some mining being irrigated.

Near Golden Ranch we have 4 slaves on their way to somewhere, south to Old Carthage or west to the Jungles. Not sure which way is best.

I think we need to reexamine our jungle clearing. Since we can't spam out our cities, the massive efforts we've spent on jungle eradication, which have been rather wholesale, may need to be refined. We might be clearing too much jungle and have open tiles that we will never use, due to the grid. A bit late now to see that, I admit.

In Babylon Crossing we have two settlers. We also have a third settler walking there; it is just SW of our captial and has a long walk ahead.

We have 16 turns to go on our MAs vs. Greece. We can either beat up on Greece and get out licks in while we can, or wait until the deals expire and go back to our original plan of stomping on Japan via Babylon.

 

[CommandoBob]

Roster:
CommandoBob - just played
Optional - UP!
Rodent - on deck
Admiral Kutzov - warming up
Othniel - long term skip
eldar (de-militarized; lurking)
Tad_Empire_O_o - long term skip
MooseWarrior - long term skip (PC issues)

 

[Optional]

Excellent stuff, Bob! I would have done the same thing here, and just set everybody up against Greece.
They've been at peace for a million years on that other continent, and have just been stuckpiling units. Something needed to start rumbling there. Let's cross our fingers that they won't sign peace soon.

Just a couple of observations: You said, after Greece had landed a force in our borders, that they might change their mind. No chance, I would say. What you can do if you don't want to be attacked - I'm not talking specifically about this game now - is to arrange a Right of Passage for gold per turn. That can work. The AI doesn't care about its reputation, but it does care about a steady flow of money coming in.
I don't know whether the AI looks at the balance, though, so if you're giving them 10 gpt, then I don't know whether they're offsetting that to the 100 gpt they are paying you.
But we probably didn't want to avoid this war. Normally we would have been delighted, but the timing here couldn't have been worse with that money just about to come in.

And the AI never wants to talk the first couple of turns after a war declaration, at least I've never seen that. Maybe after ten turns or so, then they want to talk if things aren't going well for them.

I downloaded the save 3 times, but all 3 times I got something like: dataIO operation system error. I downloaded a couple of other saves in recent days without a problem, so it looks like it's specific to this save.

 

[choxorn]

lurker's comment: Just sit back, watch the carnage, and send some Cavs to go tear up the other continent in 16 turns.

 

[Admiral Kutzov]

Once they land next to city, the Greeks weren't going to back off. If you had asked they, would have decared.

My reaction would have also been to get the rest of the AI to declare on Alex.

I'm not understanding why y'all seem to like gold rather than gpt for bribing the AI into war. My experience has been that republican AI's bail after 4 turns or so and we get our money back. Or if they don't bail we cripple their research with WW.

I'm almost so pleased with Bob's set that (TMI, sorry). Anyway, I love AI world wars.

 

[CommandoBob]

I'm not understanding why y'all seem to like gold rather than gpt for bribing the AI into war. My experience has been that republican AI's bail after 4 turns or so and we get our money back. Or if they don't bail we cripple their research with WW.

For me, I just don't like paying gold to the AI. I'd rather pay a lump sum and still have all of the cash flow.

I may have to change that when MAing, though.

 

[eldar]

I'd much rather pay gpt to the AI than a lump sum - especially when we're the one dictating terms. If they want to back out of the deal, it's their loss.

 

[Optional]

Thanks for the comments, Admiral Kutzov and Eldar. I'm only just beginning to get my head around the fact that it is indeed sometimes better to pay the AI in gpt.
I've got the save, by the way; the save was fine. It won't be today or tomorrow that I'll play, but probably over the weekend.

 

[Optional]

Pre-play/action plan:

Eldar08, 850AD, Republic
Military Tradition in 6 turns, 70% science, +28 gpt.

Military Aliiances with Babylon, Zulu and Japan,
all against Greece. All have 16 turns to go.

Military:
4 settlers
63 workers, of which 55 slaves
3 spears
11 muskets
1 knight
39 swords (CivAssist probably includes the 6 swords in our armies in that)
6 medieval infantry
18 catapults
1 galley
4 caravels
2 armies

Some upgrading badly needed here. Lots of swords and catapults; great for AA, but we're on the brink of IA. Can't invade the other continent with this. Slowing science down a bit in favor of upgrades seems justified (I'll keep science at 70% for the moment, but can imagine adjusting downwards).

I'm not going through all the builds, but I'll change the 4 musket builds to knight builds. We've already got 11 muskets, compared to 1 knight. I'll change the medieval infantry build in Plain Jim Mension to a knight as well. At first I'll leave the knights at home as mobile defenders against the Greeks.

A couple of our workers could move back to the core, where there are still some forests that could be chopped for more food. The war happiness is noticable and allows for an extra citizen here and there.

I'll start the troop transportation to the other continent; plan is to land in Babylonian terrirory, muskets first, with an RoP with Hammurabi. From there, Japan is just to the west, Greece just to the east, It'll still be 1 or 2 turnsets before we have gathered a decent force over the pond.

 

[Optional]

I've played 6 turns. I'm happy to play the full 10, but I believe some team input here would be nice. We've just researched Military Tradition, and we need to make a decision about what next.
I believe it's Physics that we want, because after that comes Magnetism, and Magnetism gives galleons, which could bring our 2 swords armies across the pond.

Some troops of ours are already across. We need more, but we're close to action. Japan has signed peace with Greece, meaning we're not in any kind of deal with Japan anymore. So we can attack Japan.
We can also attack Greece, but then we risk losing our war happiness. Zulu and Babylon are still at war with Greece, so I would leave it to them to sort the Greeks out.
We're in long running deals with both Zulu and Babylon.

Here's the turnlog:

Spoiler :

Before entering next turn, I'm upgrading 2 swords and 2 cats.
Rusicade Ranch is doing a medieval infantry, I'm swapping that to a market.

Hit space:
IBT: Greece drops 2 archers and 1 warrior next to Tad's Jungle Mansion.
Zululand and Babylon are up banking.
860BC:
Let's first get rid of those Greek invaders. Crikey! There's hardly anything else but muskets around. Cats redline, then I'm using a knight, med inf. and a musket(!) to dispatch them.
I'm finding 16 swords next to Spitzer's Shack. That's not where we need them; I'm kicking them off their butt.
Shady Lady Ranch: aqueduct > market
Golden Ranch: aqueduct > knight
Bunny Beach Inn: aqueduct > market
I'm upgrading a galley, and I'm setting 4 caravels on the way to Babylon.
We've got Metallurgy, Zulu and Babs just got Banking; I wasn't planning to trade, but I'm seeing it's quite profitable, and we've got units to upgrade:
Sell Metallurgy;
Babylon gives Banking, 96 gold + 85 gpt;
Zululand gives 111 gold + 56 gpt.
Japan has absolutely nothing to give, so no trade here.
IBT: Greek caravel attacks our stack of caravels. It loses.
870BC:
A couple of knight complete, but I won't mention all those knight builds anymore. Barracks towns I'm keeping on knights.
Ahh Sugar (that's the name of the town) I'm switching from wealth to a harbor. Wealth is not a prioroty anymore, and this town is working a fish. Because of that, a harbor will allow an extra scientist.
I'm switching The White House from a settler to an aqueduct, because we seem to have plenty of settlers.
I'm upgrading 4 cats and 4 swords to cannons and medieval infantry.
IBT: nothing
880AD:
I'm upgrading 2 cats and 3 swords.
IBT: nothing
890AD:
3 knights complete, and I'm upgrading 3 cats.
IBT: Hammurabi complains about our caravels. My fault; I forgot to sign an RoP with him. I do it now, so: RoP with Babylon.
Japan and Greece sign a peace treaty.
Greece is up Printing Press. Alexander, I recommend beelining straight to Democracy; that's the best government for when everybody's at war with you.
900AD:
Our first troops are landing on the other continent near Zariqum:
3 muskets, 4 med inf and 2 cannons.
IBT: nothing
910AD:
We have completed researching Military Tradition.
A couple more units of ours land on the other continent and I'm upgrading some more units: 5 swords, 1 horseman, 1 knight, 1 spear and 2 cats, for a total value of 570 gold.
Physics could be researched in 5 turns, running at a generous plus, but here is where I prefer to take a break.

 

[CommandoBob]

Physics -> Magnetism (Galleons) sounds good.

If Japan is an open target, then we implement our orginal plan; that is, take on Japan via Babylon. Do we MA with Babylon vs. Japan after we start? Seems like we should.

 

[Optional]

I've played the last 4 turns of my set. Here they are:

Spoiler :

I set research to Physics, will take 5 turns at 80%, + 143 gpt. Then only 2 more required techs in this age. We could be up Steampower in just over 20 turns.
We will need workers for rails! I'm switching about a dozen towns to workers, mainly corrupt towns that were on wealth. Basically every town that is not a barracks town could supply 1 or 2 workers now.
Where applicable, I'm starting to move workers from our corrupt areas back to the core. In 20 turns we should hardly have any workers chopping jungle anymore; they should be laying rails throughout our empire, with the core first.

I hit space:
IBT: nothing
920AD:
I'm upgrading a knight, a sword and a horse. That's happening every turn, I won't mention this anymore, instead I'll include a military overview at the end of this turnset, It'll show a lot has been upgraded.
IBT: Greece learns Navigation
A Japanese caravel harbors at Nagasaki, the Japanese settlement on our continent. That probably means more spears there.
930AD:
3 cavalries complete, + a courthouse in Wild Horse Adult Resort.
We appear to have enough ships, so I'm switching Dovetail Ranch and Monica Lurks Cigar from caravels to cannons. We will need them more.
IBT: Babylon and Japan are now also up Navigation. It's clear Japan has been tech brokering between Greece and Babylon. We can trade resources now with the other continent, but we don't want to. We don't want to get sucked into 20 turn deals, but also the other continent has nothing we need. We are happy as we are.
940AD:
Sharol's Brothel and Bar & Bar completes a courthouse. That's another town that can provide a few workers now.
On the other continent I'm putting a settler for 1 turn in Japan's domain, to get a better view. Actually, I can do something much better. They've got Printing Press over there, so we can trade world maps:
We give: world map.
Japan gives: world map + 13 gold.
Tukogawa is willing to throw in gpt as well, but we can't have that.
Hammurabi has no money, Shaka is not yet up Printing Press, so no trades here.
Our newly acquired world map gives us a much better view of the Japanese infrastructure, which will help us plan our attacks, and will prevent our artillery from getting stuck in the jungle.
We can also make out a couple more islands on the map.
IBT: Tukogawa complains about our settler, that I mistakenly put in his territory.
950AD:
2 cannons and a worker complete.

Handoff:

This is our military now:
5 settlers
9 workers, 55 slaves
2 spearmen
1 pike
12 muskets
19 swords, of which 6 in armies
26 medieval infantry
1 horseman
1 knight
11 cavalry
2 catapults
18 cannons
6 caravels
2 armies (swords)

Research: physics, 1 turn to go.
Then, normally: Magnetism (galleons) > Theory of Gravity (last required tech of MA) > Steam Power
We are already building lots of workers to lay rails.

Diplomacy:
Allied with Zulu and Babs against Greece; 6 turns to go in both.
Gpt deals with Zulu and Babs (they're paying us); 11 turns to go in both.
At war with Greece, war happiness from Greece.
No deals with Japan, ready for an attack on them.

What we need to decide is whether we want an ally against Japan. Japan isn't much: no iron and no saltpeter. But they could ally with someone against us, most likely Zulu, because Japan has techs that Zulu miss.
But when Japan ally with Zulu, we can set Babylon up against Zulu, and that could turn out to be a much better deal for us.
And if Japan ally Babs, it can work the other way round; we can set Zulu up against Babs.
Japan itself looks so weak that I personally would not be seeking an ally against them.
Here's a picture; the blue dots represent our grid pattern:

Spoiler :

 

[Optional]

I forgot the save:

 

[CommandoBob]

Roster:
Optional - just played
Rodent - UP!
Admiral Kutzov - on deck
CommandoBob - warming up
Othniel - long term skip
eldar (de-militarized; lurking)
Tad_Empire_O_o - long term skip
MooseWarrior - long term skip (PC issues)

 

[eldar]

Okay: do we have settler ready to build a coastal town on the grid? I'd personally be hitting Sippar for that reason - we can keep it (or at least raze & replace), get ships (with Muskets) in right away, rush walls (which will absorb some Greek forces...), and spread out.

I would also suggest burning the Greek cities next to it as it will be a huge flip risk. Actually as any city we try to keep will be a big flip risk maybe raze & replace is the way to go for good.