eldar08: Gridlocked!

[Optional]

If I click on Admiral Kutzov's link I get: 'Invalid attachment specified?' So I can't see the save, and I'm not sure where we are now; don't know how far our war machine is.
I believe we agree on making Japan our first target? With a Right of Passage with Babylon, of course, to get our ships through.
If we're starting a war with Japan, I believe we need to throw Japan in a war, to make it easier for ourselves. What did you mean, Admiral Kutzov, when you suggested getting Zulu's and Greeks at war? Did you mean at war with each other or against Japan?

If I'm only counting the active players, I believe the roster would now look something like this:
* Rodent
* CommandoBob
* Optional
* Admiral Kutzov
And hopefully some of our absent players will make a come back.

Question - maybe this has already been answered somewhere, and I haven't seen it: If we capture a town that's on the grid, are we committed to keeping it?
I would think that's a Yes, but I rather throw it up.

 

[choxorn]

Excuse me?

Shaka is giving us gold. Tokugawa is Demanding 80 gold. Can't see why we should have taken Toku's deal

lurker's comment: Whoops, misread that as Tokugawa giving Mono and 80 gold for Gunpowder rather than Mono for Gunpowder and 80 gold.

 

[CommandoBob]

Question - maybe this has already been answered somewhere, and I haven't seen it: If we capture a town that's on the grid, are we committed to keeping it?
I would think that's a Yes, but I rather throw it up.

An Emperor-level with a few restrictions. Interested? Read on....

C3C 1.22
Civ: America
Level: Emperor
World: Continents, 70% Water, Standard size, everything else random
Victory condition: Domination

Restrictions:
1. We are Americans, and everything must be built on a grid. Strict CxxC city placement. As we expand, we will "convert" the AIs' haphazard and disorganised "empires" to our rigid standard.
1a. If we can't place a city on the grid, we leave a hole.
1b. We may move our initial settler. Once our capital is in place, that sets it up for good.
1c. And yes, this includes anything we build overseas. Get your rulers out!

2. No culture may ever be built. The only exception is the Palace, which we have no choice over.
2a. That means we can't keep, if captured, the Temple of Artemis (if it's still working) or The Internet.

Nothing forces us to keep a city that is on the grid. We did keep Carthage, since it was on the grid. But I think that was because it was easier to keep it than raze and replace it.

As I read it, cities not on the grid will be razed. That is explicit. Cities that are on the grid can be razed, but that is implied, since nothing is said about AI cities on the grid.

 

[Optional]

My way of thinking was that our respect for the grid demanded from us that we don't destroy anything that's on the grid, but if nothing explicit has been said yet, maybe Eldar would be willing to add something about this, so that we don't get misunderstadings.

Another 'rule' thing: Admiral Kutzov rejects ship chaining, and part based his strategy (research path) on this rejection. Is it sensible to stick to this 'no ship chaining' rule as a team? Personally I don't have a problem with ship chaining, but since there is an objector, I'm quite happy to say 'no' to it.

 

[eldar]

We are allowed to raze cities on the grid, if we so desire and it makes sense. We're not obliged to replace them even.

We are only obliged to raze any cities not on the grid.

 

[Admiral Kutzov]

i will repost the save in about 12 hours. Just got home and I'm on my way to sleep. exhausted now.

 

[CommandoBob]

To me, ship chaining is a tool, but a cumbersome tool. In a SG it is tough, because each player has to relearn how the chain is set up each time they play their turns.

I'm more concerned with having a good supply line over the waves. Galleys won't do because they sink too often. Caravels are better, so I think we should get them first and upgrade any Galleys we have.

Once the beachhead is established, I hope that we can send full Caravels each turn. Full or not, the Caravels should sail each turn, even if they carry just one unit.

Gridding Overseas - Enhanced

Caravels have the same movement as Galleys, 3 MP.

The Red Dot/Outline is a valid city site. It is on the grid. It is about as close as we can get to Babylon. And, it is not coastal. No harbor, no boats.

The Blue Dot Line is our shortest distance across the oceans. We only pass through one ocean tile and we spend the IBT in sea tile. On the next turn, we can move into a coast tile, unload, move back and stop. We could make a round trip in 3 turns; one to move towards Babylon, two to unload and three to return.

The Pink Line represents another option, once Sippar is ours. We can sail directly into the city and unload units and they will able to move on that turn. We can't do that with the Blue Line. This route will take 4 turns for a round trip.

For the Blue Line to work we would need 4 boats (3 on the route and one for backup). The Pink Line would need 5 boasts (4 on the route and one for backup).

EDIT:
This is an old image. I wasn't at my normal PC and so I just downloaded an earlier screen shot and added the enhancements.

 

[Optional]

Caravels have the same movement as Galleys, 3 MP.

A caravel has a movement of 4, so gives us a safe crossing.

The Red Dot/Outline is a valid city site. It is on the grid. It is about as close as we can get to Babylon.

Which is why we have founded a city there called 'Babylon Crossing'.

Are you Ok with the plan of attack, Commando Bob: signing a Right of Passage with Babylon and attack Japan first? I believe this is what Rodent, Admiral Kutzov and myself are suggesting. Ins and outs still need to be discussed further.

 

[CommandoBob]

A caravel has a movement of 4, so gives us a safe crossing.

I don't have C3C on my wife's PC, so I checked the data from the links on the main page.

Which is why we have founded a city there called 'Babylon Crossing'.

Ah, good.

Are you Ok with the plan of attack, Commando Bob: signing a Right of Passage with Babylon and attack Japan first? I believe this is what Rodent, Admiral Kutzov and myself are suggesting. Ins and outs still need to be discussed further.

ROP with Babylon so we can beat up on Japan first? Fine.

Does Babylon have the road structure we need to let us get to Japan? That would be my main concern about an ROP with Babylon: their road network to Japan.

 

[Optional]

I don't have C3C on my wife's PC, so I checked the data from the links on the main page.

You're right; it's given as 3 there, but that's wrong. Maybe it was 3 in Vanilla, I don't know, but a Caravel has a movement of 4 in our game.
Which means that, in my opinion at least, Babylon's road network is not that crucial to us. Although I expect roads in Babylon; AI workers actions are poor, but AI workers are manical about connecting everything.

 

[Rodent]

the problem is, we might encounter the situation where there is only one road and thats through a city, forcing us to circle and waste time.

I always like knocking out the nearer guys first, but I agree here that tokugawa should be the Target

 

[Admiral Kutzov]

I probably wasn't real clear in my prior post. We have caravels. We will learn Chem in 5 turns (if we stay with 100% research). I didn't do anything with the military (needs work). Hopefully all can see the save now.

 

[CommandoBob]

I probably wasn't real clear in my prior post. We have caravels.

Good! With a move of 4, that opens a lot of ways to the New World.

So, where do we want to put our first city in Japan?

 

[Optional]

I think it's good to talk strategy. I don't think an invasion of the other continent is too far off anymore. I see Admiral Kutzov is building a lot of Musketmen, for upgrades to Infantry, but surely we shouldn't wait until Infantry before invading the other continent?

I was actually thinking of building Horsemen for Cavalry upgrades, but that's not gonna work anymore, since I'm seeing we're already up Chivalry. But we can build Knights (perhaps build a mix of Knights and Musketmen) and we've still got some 40 Sworsdmen/Medieval Infantry; we should be able to make a dent with that.

We can land somewhere near Nippur, a Babylonian settlement, and then take Edo first. We should bring some settlers along. We've got Astronomy up on Babylon and Zululand; maybe we could declare on Japan quite soon and try and get Babylon and Zululand on our side, for them to start weakening Japan. What we have to avoid is that Japan allies with Babylon, so we need at least Babylon on our side.

But be aware that these remarks come with this disclaimer: I'VE NEVER INVADED ANOTHER CONTINENT IN CIV.
And it's Rodent up anyway.
Rodent! Do you know you're up, mate?

 

[Admiral Kutzov]

my head twirled in 360 degree circles trying to decide what to do for an invasion. I bailed and decided to let everyone else figure it out. By all means change the musket builds if knights make more sense.

I re-read my post, and we need to get zulus and greeks at war to slow down their tech progress. Doesn't matter with who or with each other, just get them fighting.

If the offspring allow it, will try to come up with some ideas for an invasions asap.

I'VE NEVER INVADED ANOTHER CONTINENT IN CIV.

Holy Bede, Batman!. Never?!

Anyway, I am, as always for grabbing more lux.

Regards, AK

 

[choxorn]

lurker's comment: Just pick a spot, unload troops, attack. You have now invaded another continent.

BTW, it's a lot easier with Marines.

 

[eldar]

If you want to upgrade horses->cavs (highly recommended!) I suggest disconnecting all our Iron. And Saltpeter. Again though in an SG playing disconnect/reconnect needs discipline. However I reckon we can win this with Cavs. Certainly with the AI now having guns we will need them.

 

[Admiral Kutzov]

I half agree with eldar. I don't see any reason to disconnect resources. With proper diplomacy, we can take down any AI with inferior forces. I would argue for upgrading stone throwers to cannon, but we probably aren't going to be that patient.

 

[Rodent]

that makes it 3 SGs i am up in

Skip me if anyone can play this before Friday

 

[CommandoBob]

I changed the roster around a little bit.

Roster:
Admiral Kutzov - just played
CommandoBob - UP!
Optional - on deck
Rodent - warming up
Othniel - long term skip
eldar (de-militarized; lurking)
Tad_Empire_O_o - long term skip
MooseWarrior - long term skip (PC issues)