Emigration

[Prospo]

This would work even better in Civ IV where the culture of the city being emigrated too would change gradually to that of the emigrants.

 

[Babri]

killmeplease, are you going to release a new version of this great mod ?

 

[killmeplease]

This would work even better in Civ IV where the culture of the city being emigrated too would change gradually to that of the emigrants.

yeah and i was planning to make this mod for Civ4 initially as a part of my version of Revolutions mod.

killmeplease, are you going to release a new version of this great mod ?

i'll do that as a part of a bigger culture/social mod if Firaxis released the source code. the modding opportunities that we currently have are very limited.

and i am also thinking about doing that for civ4.

 

[anbeck]

hmm its interesting.
maybe it should be possible for citizens from big cities to emigrate to small ones.

Is there any historic precedent for this? Migration has been an important social phenomenon through all the ages, but despite all misery, people always tended to go where stuff was going on, and this was usually the big cities. And once your poor, you cannot afford anymore to go somewhere else and have to stay in the poorest parts of the city.
The only exceptions I can think of are war-related.

 

[Valkrionn]

Is there any historic precedent for this? Migration has been an important social phenomenon through all the ages, but despite all misery, people always tended to go where stuff was going on, and this was usually the big cities. And once your poor, you cannot afford anymore to go somewhere else and have to stay in the poorest parts of the city.
The only exceptions I can think of are war-related.

Yes, and a good one: American migration to the west. People left the cities, to make fortunes in new territory.

That is pretty much the only way I'd have migration from big cities to others, though; Brand new territory.

 

[killmeplease]

golden fever is also a good example

people migrate to more rich cities, and richier not always means bigger (but often does).
Richness could be determined by productivity index PI
that is a sum of all city's outputs (after all modifiers) divided by its population size

so if we had a city of size 1 with a 1 citizen working on a gold mine, PI for this city will be far greater than that for other cities. And people could start migrating there form other places, until the city's PI matched a state average PI.

 

[anbeck]

Yes, and a good one: American migration to the west. People left the cities, to make fortunes in new territory.

Touché

That is pretty much the only way I'd have migration from big cities to others, though; Brand new territory.

It doesn't even have to be brand new: After the Taiping rebellion whole regions were empty, and peasants from poor parts of China came there to take over the good land.

golden fever is also a good example

people migrate to more rich cities, and richier not always means bigger (but often does).
Richness could be determined by productivity index PI
that is a sum of all city's outputs (after all modifiers) divided by its population size

so if we had a city of size 1 with a 1 citizen working on a gold mine, PI for this city will be far greater than that for other cities. And people could start migrating there form other places, until the city's PI matched a state average PI.

Good example.
Maybe there could be a "potential" index for each city, which depends not on actual production, but on the potential of resources, be it luxury, good farm land or lots of industry?

 

[Valkrionn]

golden fever is also a good example

people migrate to more rich cities, and richier not always means bigger (but often does).
Richness could be determined by productivity index PI
that is a sum of all city's outputs (after all modifiers) divided by its population size

so if we had a city of size 1 with a 1 citizen working on a gold mine, PI for this city will be far greater than that for other cities. And people could start migrating there form other places, until the city's PI matched a state average PI.

True enough about mineral wealth... That generally occurs in new territories, though.

What you proposed sounds like a workable system though

 

[killmeplease]

Maybe there could be a "potential" index for each city, which depends not on actual production, but on the potential of resources, be it luxury, good farm land or lots of industry?

if citizens were building improvements and buildings in the game by their own, it would be correct. but as far all the infrastructure is a concern of a player.. i think mingrants should consider what a potential a city is pocessing at the moment.

 

[killmeplease]

True enough about mineral wealth... That generally occurs in new territories, though.

What you proposed sounds like a workable system though

yeah i think we'll see emigration v3 soon)

 

[killmeplease]

so i want to make an announcement and to share my ideas

Internal migration

• People migrate to most productive cities. Productivity is determined by an average output c5gold:, ,, , , ) of a city per citizen.
• Order and Liberty speed up internal migration 1.5 times each (for the maximum acceleration of x2.25).
• Locked citizens do not migrate so you can prevent them from migration (if Freedom was not adopted).
• People only migrate from bigger cities to smaller ones (this restriction should be made to avoid exploits).
• People emigrate from a city before it gets captured.

 

[anbeck]

so i want to make an announcement and to share my ideas

Internal migration

• People migrate to most productive cities. Productivity is determined by an average output c5gold:, ,, , , ) of a city per citizen.
• Order and Liberty speed up internal migration 1.5 times each (for the maximum acceleration of x2.25).
• Locked citizens do not migrate so you can prevent them from migration (if Freedom was not adopted).
• People only migrate from bigger cities to smaller ones (this restriction should be made to avoid exploits).
• People emigrate from a city before it gets captured.

This all sounds cool!

Is there a way to limit internal migration? China, for example, has an eye on migrants and if citizens migrate 'illegaly' they face social disadvantages. Or is the same mechanism that limits emigration also limiting internal migration? (just saw that you adressed this above...

Do you think it would make sense to allow forced migration from one of your cities to another? You could have a settler-like unit which does not take its 'citizen' from growth, but cuts the city's population by one; and it cannot found a city on its own, but only merge with an existing city. Of course, this would make people rather unhappy.
Then again, it would be okay if you had to do it indirectly by making your frontier cities very attractive for migrants to go there.

 

[killmeplease]

This all sounds cool!

Is there a way to limit internal migration? China, for example, has an eye on migrants and if citizens migrate 'illegaly' they face social disadvantages. Or is the same mechanism that limits emigration also limiting internal migration? (just saw that you adressed this above...

Do you think it would make sense to allow forced migration from one of your cities to another? You could have a settler-like unit which does not take its 'citizen' from growth, but cuts the city's population by one; and it cannot found a city on its own, but only merge with an existing city. Of course, this would make people rather unhappy.
Then again, it would be okay if you had to do it indirectly by making your frontier cities very attractive for migrants to go there.

you can lock citizens so they will not emigrate, as it was stated earlier
also turning on an 'avoid growth' option will prevent from immigration

the problem with forced migration is that it is exploitable.
1 of size 3 city does not match 1 of size 10 city, as the latter requires tons more to be grown.

 

[anbeck]

Thanks for the explanation!

 

[filli_noctus]

so i want to make an announcement and to share my ideas

Internal migration

• People migrate to most productive cities. Productivity is determined by an average output c5gold:, ,, , , ) of a city per citizen.
• Order and Liberty speed up internal migration 1.5 times each (for the maximum acceleration of x2.25).
• Locked citizens do not migrate so you can prevent them from migration (if Freedom was not adopted).
• People only migrate from bigger cities to smaller ones (this restriction should be made to avoid exploits).
• People emigrate from a city before it gets captured.

Sounds good, although I would say the 'PI' should be based on , and ; either an average or the highest of the three. and are both likely to be higher per population in larger cities so would potentially depress migration rate. Not sure about , do you mean total output or left over after consumption?
Based on my (admittedly poor) understanding of mid-20th century history of communist states would it not be more accurate to have Autocracy increase migration (Stalinist encouragement of Siberian colonisation) and order reduce it (Chinese migration from rural areas to the cities)?

 

[killmeplease]

Sounds good, although I would say the 'PI' should be based on , and ; either an average or the highest of the three. and are both likely to be higher per population in larger cities so would potentially depress migration rate. Not sure about , do you mean total output or left over after consumption?

good points here
maybe PI should not consider buildings output but worked tiles yields only (with modifiers although)

Based on my (admittedly poor) understanding of mid-20th century history of communist states would it not be more accurate to have Autocracy increase migration (Stalinist encouragement of Siberian colonisation) and order reduce it (Chinese migration from rural areas to the cities)?

Order and Autocracy are hard to distinguish one from another at times. in my understanding order is about planned/regulated economy while autocracy is about oppressive rule. OFC planned economy implies 1) moving workers from place to place 2) attachment of them to work places so they can not change their occupation without high permission. So both increasing and decreasing of migration fits Order good: its just population managemet.

Also internal migration is supposed to be a desirable effect for a player, so i think decreasing it would not correspond policies paradigm of Civ5 as policies normally have no negative effects.

Given that i think preventing migration with locking citizens should not be a default effect but an effect of Order and Autocracy.

 

[pintocat]

Look forward to new version how's progress going?

 

[PlyPlay665]

Could someone at least release the v2 mod but compatible with the newest patch? It doesn't let you "Choose a Great Person." I'm not sure if anyone has mentioned it, but yeah, it's incompatible, and I really like this mod. Although, I can't wait until the new update!

 

[killmeplease]

i think v3 will be done in two weeks or so

Could someone at least release the v2 mod but compatible with the newest patch? It doesn't let you "Choose a Great Person."

thanks for reporting, i'll check this

 

[Terradive]

I'd love to have help with this an existing Civ 4 immigration mod that needs to be updated, plus has some nifty ideas you may want to incorporate into the civ 5 version.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=173972