Emperor comparison game.

[mrchadt]

I've been struggling to beat emperor for a while now, I've had one victory with a good start. I feel that I make bad decisions in my planning and don't make the best of the situation. So here is a start if anyone wants to play and compare strategies.

Spoiler :

If we could have a check point at 1000bc that would be good.
My idea is to compare not only strategies such as tech and build order, ce/fe, etc, but our planning, that is how we assess our position and make a good plan to best use what we have around us.
So no preconceived ideas. Be water my friend.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OW-cnizLDEE

ps this is on the HOF mod.

 

[Cam_H]

Thanks mrchadt for kicking this off. I've given it a shot. Spoiler info' includes spoilers for lurkers and players who have played.

Spoiler :

Contains spoiler information for anyone wanting to play. Please don't read if considering participation.

Spoiler :

The settling of Beijing

99% of the time I'd settle on the spot, but the Warrior revealed Sugar to the east and I was quite keen to get hold of it, so I took the chance and moved the Settler north east only to reveal more Sugar. On the following turn there was a highlighted blue circle further to the north east, and opted for the 'Devil that I didn't know' and settled on that north eastern spot, picking up Cows! With Agriculture as one of our starting tech's, I went straight for the Worker.

Scooting around

The explorer Warrior was able to get a pretty good 'circuit look around' our capital for good second and third city sites. Gems under Jungle and Ivory just two of the possibilities. He survived a Barbarian Warrior, and it was a good opportunity to meet some neighbours - thankfully two of the least crazy around in Roosevelt and Cyrus (Buddhist). Huayna Capac (Hindu) and Hannibal (Jewish) are on the map too. Two huts; gold and map.

Technology

With Mining as the other starting technology it was a compelling option to get Bronze Working. The consequent lack of Copper and available Cows put Animal Husbandry up as another 'compelling' choice - Barbs were roaming and we had nothing to work with but Warriors. Despite the Protective trait I was in no great hurry to get Archery; we were two tech's away from both Archers or Chariots. We find Horses within our cultural borders, and aim to hook them up with The Wheel. With an eye on the Jungle Gems and desire for Iron if 'Choks' were going to play a role, Iron Working was next dialled up. From there Writing (Libraries, also used for culture in light of no religion) and a view to Alphabet.

Expansion

No early Copper-sourced Axeman rush, plus a heap of great city sites pushed me towards self-expansion. Shanghai has a really nice split of resources including Ivory. Guangzhao could well have been founded between the three Gems, but Iron Working came in two turns before the Settler arrived in the Gem sweet-spot and instead got diverted towards the Iron - also putting a geographical barrier towards Persia. Nanjing offers itself as a terrific commerce site.

There are some Barb cities that we can take and raze not far away - Aryan's on a Hill and might be tougher, but our few troops are heading towards Kassite which should be gettable. Nanjing with its Gem Mines are helping prop up the economy in the meantime. It will struggle culturally with Boston for the Corn between the cities - 'yay' for the Pavilion!

Summary

Usually at Emperor level I'm wary of the runaway AI and look to early aggression, however here we could be looking instead at Machinery + Construction to produce Medieval units. Tackling Persia might be quite do-able on the other hand with a couple of SoDs that would include some Spears - Persia's looking more like a target than America, but we have poor intel' on both at the moment. Metal Casting beckons as the next likely tech - finally looking to leverage the Industrious trait as well as a step towards Machinery, although we'll see what tech' trading options are about. I don't think that there were too many 'rabbits pulled out of hats' here in my game, but a fairly workmanlike turnset.

The save.

 

[Lord Chambers]

I'd love to play, but not enough to install a mod.

 

[Cam_H]

Hall of Fame mod - it's an optional extra that won't mess with your 'default' game if you don't want it to. I actually played my turnset without any of the 'helpers' (because I'm like that).

 

[mrchadt]

Thanks for joining in Cam_H. Am I correct in thinking you have discovered iron working? I havent discovered it yet by 1000bc. So it would be a spoiler. I will play on to its discovery.
I played it on the HOF mod because I prefere to have things which will hopefully make the game easier to manage when the civilization gets big. My understanding is that it doesn't give any infomation not available already in the game or change the game play in any way. I'm willing to be corrected here. It is the only mod I have and lots of people use it for XOTM games so I think it's trustworthy.

 

[slaze]

1000 BC save
http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/104782/mrchadt_BC-1000.CivWarlordsSave

Spoiler :

Strategy sent me through Iron Working and got it by 1000 BC so spoil on

Spoiler :

I founded in place and went after the usual ancient age techs, starting with Bronze Working. As Protective, I really wanted a reason to go after hunting for Archery/AH bonus and when I saw Elephants, I had plenty. I settled Shanghai before AH came through and found Horses conveniently in bfc. Considered settling 3rd city directly on gems but wanted more production with cows so settled as is, although timed it with road/chop (settler was chilling out in the jungle under an archer). Began Stonehenge in 1200's or so, knowing I'd miss but wanted the wealth to jack up research for IW. Got 30 crucial , allowing for swift completion of IW and 2 turn into Writing at max research. Gonna get Guangzhou's border pop in 4 turns and starting on its gem mine. No Iron in borders so I'll have to take Atlanta with chariots. Also considering razing the barb city up north for 1SW.

 

[mrchadt]

Here is what I did upto 1000bc.

Spoiler :

I settled in place as it looked ok with the hills and food. I wanted to find out if I had copper and be able to use slavery, no copper so I went for AH next. After finding horses, my plan was to get 2 cites, and try for the oracle for monarchy so I could grow my capital for production. Second city gets corn, heffalumps(elephants) and horses.
Wandering around my warrior stumbled on an American worker, so I, having military units available for defense decided to try my luck and declared in 2360bc. New york looked very nice so I decided to try an early chariot rush if possible. At 1000bc the chariots were moving into place. In the mean time I got the oracle and monarchy. With lots of neibours I decided to go for alphbet next(after writing)

 

[Mutineer]

well, I played a bit, but mix up dates and stop at 2000 bc, may be will play later today.

Spoiler :

After some consideration of settling on bananas I settle in place, may be should have settle on bananass.
Research went bronse working-hanting-animal hasbently-well granary-writing
Scouting reveal the only bronse near by I can see at Capac, he took it befor I can build settler.
So I settle hource city at north and in process of production second settler. Plan currently to settle thurd city, probably near fish, and then take chariots to roosevelt for gold city he setttle.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/84898/mrchadt_BC-2000.CivWarlordsSave

 

[Tatran]

I've a problem, I can't load the 4000 BC save.

HOF mod + save -> CTD, because it's pass protected
Without HOF mod, return to main menu.

 

[Mutineer]

you probably have other mods autoloaded.

 

[Jet]

(comment about strategic resources)

That was a spoiler! 1000 BC checkpoint:

Spoiler :

Settled 1W for more production and to let the next city share the farmed bananas in case of an MC/Pyramids.

1W is great, although it turned out to mean no fish/cows fishing village ever.
Worker -> Warrior -> Settler.
Got lucky with first Warrior defending against animals.
Pursued MC/Pyramids: BW -> Mysticism -> Meditation -> Priesthood -> Pottery -> Masonry -> IW in progress.

Did Oracle -> MC. Put the next city on a hill for defense, although 1N would have been better.

Was paranoid and built the Great Wall, but the forge engineer will still come in 1 turn before the prophet/engineer. I plan to settle 1 or 2 more cities before attacking someone. I'm not sure whether to try to settle a spot that denies Roosevelt the Ivory. Or whether to settle the gems or let Roosevelt do it, probably with a bad dotmap.

It's 16 turns to the Engineer. Someone else could build the Pyramids, but waiting for the Forge Engineer is about the same time as building them by hand, and I want to build another Settler. If I miss the Pyramids I'll take Machinery. Even if I can't get Iron I can always attack with Cats and Elephants, even if I have to fight other Elephants.

Save

 

[VoiceOfUnreason]

Shrug....

Spoiler :

Settled in place, and went SE rather than north while exploring. That basically got me fixated on the Jungle, and the presence of Rosie in the East. Warrior + Bronze Working first, then worker (one turn late - hurt by the lack of a second 1F/2P tile).

At this point, either I erred, or the position is a lot dicier than it looks. I decided to fight through to Iron Working, and settled Shanghai in the mountain pass to the east - Rosie had already dropped New York on the other side of the river. That's a long time with nothing but warriors for defence, and you are still short (1) Mysticism for a border pop, (2) Wheel to hook it up.

Oh, and Hunting+Archery to deal with the incoming menace. I overlooked Qin carrying both the Protective trait and Chok-in-the-Box. As it was, everything timed out just a little too closely - I had just enough overflow from finishing Stonehenge (I have no idea what I'll do with the Prophet) to get an archer finished just ahead of a barbarian raid on the city (net casulties: the corn farm).

Third City went north east, to contest Cyrus for the Iron (I ran a bit past the deadline, he has time to finish mining the iron before it falls under my control. From this point, the production is devoted to Swords, planning to take New York (to the south east - Boston on one of the earlier screenies), and maybe Washington.

1000 BC and no library. Hmm.

 

[mrchadt]

Thankyou jet, I edited my blunder out. Sorry if I ruined anyones game.
Well quite a few saves here, and some really good plans on how to make use of the situation, just the sort of thing I was hoping for. I'll have a look through all the saves and try to compare the strategies. I'll put in a report tomorrow sometime. Thanks for all the interest.

 

[Kennigit]

Alrighty, I've played up to 1 AD. I've been slow this game, but still should easily win.

Spoiler :

At 2000 BC I got three cities, 4rth coming. I didn't get copper/pig city, and am getting IW for iron and juicy gems.
View attachment 155818

At 1000BC got 4 cities. My 4rth city had some nasty little barbs go after it, but it easily survived.
View attachment 155819

At 1 AD, am at war with Rossy and will get washington with acouple catapults coming soon. I've played poorly, as in not getting enough workers and improving everything. But a philadelphia conquest gave me some 4 or 5 workers, so once I get washington and boston I'll be on my way. I also popped silver in my capital, meaning I have 4! mined resources that get a lot of gold . I'm definitely behind in tech, but I did get construction to trade around. Up north I will also get a fish city that will overlap with the barb city, so between the two I'll probably split it up as a fish/cow + a corn/clam city. Rosy has the pyramids, so once I get that I'll be able to grow all my cities and start working cottages.
View attachment 155822

View attachment 155823

 

[Dirk1302]

Hall of Fame mod - it's an optional extra that won't mess with your 'default' game if you don't want it to. I actually played my turnset without any of the 'helpers' (because I'm like that).

That was a very helpful link Cam_H, i always enjoy reading your posts anyway for your clear presentation of Civ IV strategy.Can you tell us what this mod does btw?

I'll give the game a shot.

 

[Cam_H]

Dirk,

Why, thank you.

I'm really not the one to be answering this, as I rarely use the Mod's features - although that's not to say it isn't great - it's just that I like to play the default game.

Essentially it doesn't alter anything to gameplay unless you direct it to. The noticable difference is when you load up a game that was earlier played with the mod, then you'll be asked to reload from within Civ4 so the mod components can be encompassed in the game that you're continuing to play.

You can click on and off different mod components, just as you would 'say' turn off or on 'detailed city' information or other features that you'd find in the game options.

Again, I'm not that au fait with the ins and outs of the HOF mod, but the bits that I use, when I use anything are;

• The autolog - records your decisions and global happenings to a txt file. Useful for team games.

• Exotic Foreign Advisor - provides much more comprehensive data on relations (providing a numerical guide as a grid for all leaders, as well as a relationship guide by colour), and more comprehensive information on trade options.

• CivAlerts - advises which cities are about to become unhappy or unhealthy, who's got technology or gold to trade, etc. There's nothing wrong with using this component, but I always feel that it's a bit of a 'crutch', and I should be on top of this information anyway. afaik It won't tell you anything that you can't find out for yourself if you're 'on the ball'.

There's plenty more to this Mod however, and probably the Hall of Fame forum would be worth browsing.

 

[Mutineer]

weill, I quicly played to 1000BC, using just general development plan, did not want to play with wanders.

 

[mrchadt]

With 4 others and me posting their 1000bc save, (I will include spocks in the next one), we have 4 very different games going on.

Cam_H decided on expanding his empire peacefully while getting some iron, for defense and gems also future choku's. He(I guess, I will refere to all players as he unless they tell me otherwise.) has 4 cities, 3 workers, 1 chariot, 4 warriors, 1 swordman and 2 axemen. His science rate is on 50% but generating 14 beakers nonetheless. His cities have 2 baracks and 1 library.

Slaze also went for early iron for the same reasons. He has 3 cities and is planning a chariot attack on the americans for their iron. He has 3 workers, 4 archers and 1 warrior. His slider is on 70% with -1/turn for 13 beakers. His cities contain 2 barracks 2 monuments and a granary.

Jet moved his settler then decided on getting some early wonders, he got the GW and Oracle(getting MC) in his capital. He is running an engineer for the GE which he plans to build the pyramids or get machinery with. He has 2 cities 1 worker and 4 warriors(mistakenly said archers originally). His cities have 1 barrack, 1 monument, 2 graneries and 2 forges. 70% science for 8 beakers.

Mutineer decided on general development, it seems he did lots of scouting with warriors and a scout. He built 3 cities, 3 workers, 5 warriors and 1 axeman(finding copper near his capital, I think I will look there too rumour is that it isn't so random.). His cities have 1 barracks 2 monuments and 2 granaries. 70% science for 13 beakers.

mrchadt(me) has 2 cities, 3 workers, 5 chariots, 6 warriors. Declaring early on america saved me any minus from others civs as they wern't friends then. I'm planning an attack on the american gold city. I took moonarchy from the oracle allowing me to whip more freely and build my cities bigger. I have 2 barracks, 1 library, and 2 monuments. 60% science for 12 beakers(removed 2 scientists).

 

[mrchadt]

Let's have the next check point at 1AD. But play on a bit further before looking at other peoples saves so we can't get any information or be influenced by what they did.
Any advice anyone wants to give on comparing our games will be graciously accepted.

 

[Jet]

1 AD checkpoint:

Spoiler :

At my last checkpoint GPPs were timed so that I'd get an Engineer from Shanghai one turn before an Prophet/Engineer from Beijing. I accidentally allowed the computer to fire the Forge Engineer for one turn, causing me to get a Prophet from Beijing instead. It did arrive around 10 turns before the Pyramids were BIDA. My position was still pretty good, but I was upset and resigned after some weed decisions. The ones I remember were not attacking with my first stack of 6 Swordsmen, not hooking up Ivory promptly (I think ~I may have been thinking I needed to research Construction first~), and invading Roosevelt even though I was already under attack from HC. Also, my turns became rushed, and I think my tile and build management became bad.