Emperor Cookbook II: Mehmed II

[Kraftster]

Spoiler :

My notes that I was taking as things unfolded were lost somehow....so I am very frustrated. Anyway, its hard for me to remember everything that I wanted to comment on, so, I'll do my best of a quick recap.

Built Great Lighthouse. Expanded at a rate that turn
ed out to be too slow. In a matter of three turns, I missed settling the alley north of Bursa and the spot left to the north of Istanbul (below the Ivory site). So, I have a Settler in Edirne ready to settle one of the islands to the West.

I popped my great Merchant somewhere near the 3/4 portion of the round. I debating long about what to do, I ended up deciding to go with a golden age to try to secure Colossus and TGL. TGL is still being built, waiting for a whip in Edirne -- I think this is the obvious TGL city. Prior to Colossus and forge I constructed Moai Statues in Istanbul. Istanbul had a barb galley take out fishing boats TWICE (and a galley lost). Now finally protected by a trireme. Met Mensa in this round. Went ahead and converted to confucianism (Cyrus) since I got the opportunity during my golden age. Just researched Compass, so, set to build some harbors in the next few dozen turns. Still lots of trees left to chop, barracks in most cities capable of producing units. I envision a chopping sequence for Harbors and catapults.

Marble, Ivory, Furs, Pig, Fish all now hooked up.

Workforce Summary:
Axeman x8
Warrior x4
Worker x5
Settler x1
Trireme x2

New additions to Cities summary:

Istanbul - Barracks, Forge, Library, Great Lighthouse, Moai Statues, Colossus (GP: 41 turns)
Edirne - Walls, Barracks, Granary, Forge, Library (GP: 57 turns)
Ankara - Barracks, Granary, Lighthouse, Library (GP: 60 turns)
Bursa - Barracks, Granary, Lighthouse, Monument
Konya - Monument, Granary (Border pop in 2 turns)

New techs (not in order, I can't remember):
Writing, Hunting, Archery, Polytheism, Monotheism, Priesthood, Metal Casting, Iron Working, Aesthetics, Math, Alphabet, Literature, Currency, Compass

Cyrus +6
Musa +3
Shaka Even
Toku +1

Overall, I'm quite certain this will not be the best save. Always welcome constructive criticism.

 

[Abegweit]

Kinda late to the discussion.

Indeed it is late. Very late. Very very late. But the short answer is: stuff it jerk. You are nothin but a troll. I have no clue why you decided to land this stink bomb on this thread out of nowhere but it's not the first thread you have attacked. What's more I do know that bleys doesn't deserve you trolling him. He is wa-ay out of your class. Way out.

To all: this is my first and last response to the troll. Feeding trolls never works. I probably shouldn't even have given him the benefit of this post.

 

[Roxlimn]

Sigh.

I suppose I could erase the commentary. Such hostility! This forum used to be friendlier.

 

[Cornhog]

Spoiler :

Why bother with the pyramids? If we have the Great Lighthouse, we need lots of coastal cities. If we have lots of coastal cities then the Colossus seems like a better fit. If we have the Colossus then we want as many water tiles worked as possible. More tiles worked equals fewer specialists. That's what I did at least.

This thread certainly is interesting. People doing a number of different things, and it's hard to say which is "best." I thought I did nicely by picking up a bunch of wonders, but then Monsterzuma founds more cities than me with better infrastructure but no wonders. I'm not sure which course is best

Interesting!

 

[Roxlimn]

Cornhog:

Spoiler :

At the risk of further flaming, I'm going to offer discussion based on what I've played through so far. I debated going for Bley's or Abegweit's save, but since they were both so similar to mine, I decided to go for mine instead.

The Pyramids gets you +3 beakers per Specialist under Rep. Corn/Gold city has the potential to churn out LOTS of GS's - easily enough to comfortably get you to Lib with room to spare, what with the GLH contributing as well. That's in addition to the sheer science output you get from those Specialists under Rep. I was playing with getting Constitution with it, but I haven't gotten around to playing that out yet. MT's in the bag for it, though.

I frankly don't know how much better The Colossus would be, since I didn't build it. I didn't manage to get the Oracle, and with GLib being on my priority list, MCasting for Colossus was a bit late. The thing I didn't like about the Colossus was that working those tiles would not give me much production at all - sea tiles don't unless you also build Moai, and that only works for one city.

In general, I could see Colossus getting me less than 20 clean additional commerce total when it was built, and only a bit more down the line. Running 6+2 Scientists under Caste, Pyramids could get you 24 beakers in Corn/Gold city alone plus whatever other beakers in other sites, plus higher happiness caps in 5 cities, plus the option to do US or PS later down the line.

Costs a bunch of hammers, but it turned out to be doable.

PS: If you're not Cornhog and think I'm being a jerk, please just put me on ignore. For the love of God, please just put me on ignore. Thank you.

 

[Cornhog]

Rox:

Spoiler :

I've never been a number cruncher when it comes to Civ4. That seems too much like work. I pull a Stephen Colbert and follow my gut. It has more nerve endings than my brain after all.

You might be right about your way producing more beakers. You shoulda played your game from the standard save and we coulda compared. I didn't get the pyramids (although I think I could have) but I got the Oracle, I'm two turns away from the GL and about 10 or so away from the Statue of Zeus and the Mausoleum. I've also started a religion with philosophy.

I tend to favor commerce more than production in my games. Not sure if that's a good thing. In fact, I was turning Edirne into a cottage + mines city. Also, I rarely go into caste system because I am a whipping machine.

I dunno if any of that made sense. It's late and I'm not thinking clearly. I wanna see what other people did

 

[pigswill]

Having never used 'pause' I don't know how to remove it .

 

[Roxlimn]

Corndog:

Spoiler :

Actually, having played games from different saves from this forum, I kinda gathered that different games could turn out different ways. Nabbing Oracle was a no-go for me, since it went off barely 10 turns after I finished the GLH! And to think I put in beakers towards Priesthood for that!

I'll see what I can do to send one some of my BC and AD saves privately. No point cluttering up this thread with stuff that'll offend the regulars.

 

[RRRaskolnikov]

Having never used 'pause' I don't know how to remove it .

Pause again (on the keyboard)?
Congrats to Abegweit... happy playing guys...

@playshogi: all good points , but as I planned to REX before going on war, I wanted to push toward pottery and writing while I am not at 0% science... If you crash you eco before those two techs, it's hard to move on ... but as we are building the GL (and will likely get it), your points are valid as our eco won't crash soon...

 

[RJM]

Spoiler :

After discovering writing I decide to go for poly (to be followed by aesthetics and literature). I detour my progress towards literature by researching hunting. After literature I decide to head for civil service. After CS, I head towards education.

I founded 4 new cities with room for at least one more if required. Bursa (1025BC) picks up the ivory and pigs. I missed out on the ivory and corn site, but founded Konya in 50BC to act as a defendable frontier with

Cyrus. Samsun (AD 145) will pick up the corn when it expands and Gaziantep (AD 355) will pick up the pigs when it expands.

I completed four wonders - the GLH in 1175BC; the GL in AD 55; the pyramids in AD 265 and the Shwedagon Paya in AD 385. This last one was a mistake - I thought I was building the University of Sankore . Still, it

will allow a switch to pacifism in a couple of turns.

I have been building military units and moving them to the borders with Tok and Cyrus. but nonetheless, I am rather short of units.

I'm not very pleased with this turnset, particularly missing the corn ivory site and building the wrong wonder.

 

[pigswill]

Finally found the pause key (right next to scroll lock which I'd never noticed either) so played a few turns:

Spoiler :

Got Glite in 1150bc. Had some problems with barbs heading from the north and pillaging around Edirne around 1000bc, barb galleys also showed up and pillaged some nets forcing me to build galleys and replacment WBs. Standard lit beeline. Annoyingly none of the AIs had bothered researching alphabet so had to do it myself; then messed up chopping so got lots of 20 hammer chops the turn before trading for maths. Didn't get marble hooked up in time either. Despite all that I built Glib in Edirne in 5ad. Ankara had built a library and popped a GS in 10bc. Did lots of tech trading, managed to pick up CoL and med in trade so GS bulbed philosophy in 25ad (Taoism in Edirne).
More tech trading and tech-whoring while researching CS (220ad) and paper (355ad). Got GS from Glib in 370ad which bulbed a chunk of beakers towards education.
Built some cities as well: Bursa (pig/ivory) in 700bc. Cyrus beat me to triple ivory site. Konya (305bc), Samsun (185bc) and Gianzantep (65bc) got built on the eastern islands to make use of Glite trade routes. Last turn of the set I built Izmir and Diya-something to the west.
Once paper was in I did a bunch of map trades - now everyone knows where everyone else is and I picked up a couple of hundred gold in the process.
Didn't go for any more wonders. Military remains a bit light. Confucianism is the dominant religion (Confu AP built 250ad) but as it didn't spread I couldn't adopt it. No-one has enough on their hands.

@Bleys:

Spoiler :

You were right about location of marble-copper city. Putting the city east of marble and researching hunting-archery after sailing-masonry would have been the best solution.

 

[Bleys]

Sigh.

I suppose I could erase the commentary. Such hostility! This forum used to be friendlier.

No worries, I accept your assessment of the game as just that, your individual assessment.

Personally, in response to your comments, I have no intention of even remotely trying to build the Mids. We need Galleys, Settlers, Workers and Garrisons much more urgently. The GLH wins the game, the GL puts the hammer in the coffin, there is no need to pile on with the Mids. It will only distract us from the task at hand, which is basically trying to get as many cities down as we can and still be safe from Toku, Shaka, and whoever else is out there.

I actually played both games. I played Abe's first, but I am too busy to post a report today.

 

[Soirana]

Spoiler :

I actually quitted after failing to deal woth barb galleys. Loosing three galley to galley combats while on defense. I probably could survived even without seafood, but got to nervous. Cyrus beating me to triple jumbos by something like two turns did not helped either.
Never liked these waterworlds.

As i took a look at that snaky water via WB i won't proceed on next rounds. Good luck.

 

[pigswill]

@Soirana

Spoiler :

I've had a completly legitimate look at most of the world (tho not hidden resources) by extensive map-trading so I wouldn't worry too much about peeking at WB.

 

[Bleys]

I think Soirana meant VIA a Work Boat, not the World Builder, heh.

Funny how certain features are a negative to some and a positive to others. I look at the snakey land and water and think "WOW, my kinda game!".

One of the things about this game that makes it great, IMHO

BTW, here are my saves, OFFICIAL and unofficial (my own shadow). I will be writing my report tomorrow.

 

[Soirana]

I meant Word Builder. Not much of interest play a map after that.

 

[Bleys]

I meant Word Builder. Not much of interest play a map after that.

Ah.

So may I ask what it is about the map that turns you off? I love these kinds of maps, they hold my interest long after the game is pretty much a gimmee.

 

[carl corey]

In my opinion more land = more cities = more things to think about when settling cities. That's one of the most important things I see in favor of land maps.

As for water maps, handling an invasion is a bit more interesting, especially when you're shipping troops far away from home and have to consider things like bringing reinforcements on time, taking peace to regroup, etc. On land, when cultural borders often touch and you take 4-5 cities quickly because they're either adjacent to your culture or 1-2 tiles away, planning and executing a war is less of a struggle.

On the other hand, how often does an AI successfully fight an overseas war? Even in Continents maps this is a rarity, so the risk of being invaded is probably smaller than in Pangaea, Fractal or Continents maps.

 

[Soirana]

Barb galleys is a factor. Although gamewise they are good thing. Water map should have these. Just for me it is either i oracle out MC or have to play galley vs galley. I've read idea just let them go through your lands into opponents just replacing boats... never worked for me.

GLH is another. There is no real alternative. You have - you win. Unluckily it is not possible to persuade your neighbour to build it.

AI's being unable to properly move/dislocate troops between different land zones. Which means once you start killing it is hard to fail.

I also do not like being mainly on seafood. Workboat first usually leads me to calculations. And calculations sometimes end on plainly stupid decisions.

In general i played a lot on fractal. Probably best start for me is reasaonable land piece with me and another doomed civilization. AI is either rushed (aggresive ones) or taken by early war (ones who build wonders).
I guess i am less afraid to be in isolation (before Emperor i would not mind at all and i better not tell anyone how Surry kicked my ass in last LHC).

 

[Gliese 581]

Agree Soirana. I like water maps on occasion but I dislike the fact that the GLH is such an obvious and dominant strategy every single time. It's a little like playing the romans, you know what's up.
The AI is less competent on this kind of map as well but that's no problem for me, just increase the difficulty level to one step higher than you're used to to balance it out.