Emperor Domination

[Giaur]

Yes, future hermit, once you declare war early on warlords 2.08, the AI seems to build archers and nothing but making for a tough war. You need to have everything in place before declaring thus minimizing the number of extra archers the AI builds.

I know what to do then. Pillage improvments and place one unit on every tile that produces hammers. Also you can send some suicidial workers, who are to be captured by enemy units. But those units are worse defenders in open ground. Besides those workers are to be stolen by us first

 

[lilnev]

Ah, I'd overlooked the fact that Stone comes with Berlin's border pop. Focused on Horses, and assumed we'd need a third city to claim the Stone. At 26 hammers/turn after Stone (plus a few chops if necessary), the Pyramids actually look feasible. Berlin could build a warrior while growing to size 4, then a worker while waiting for the border pop, then a settler while the quarry is being built, then start on the Pyramids? I'd like a couple of chariots as well, for barb defense and standby in case Alex DoWs us, but if the quarry comes before the Horse pasture then they'll have to wait. Hamburg is going to be kind of slow to get going, especially with our workers are doing other things. And research is going to crawl until we get that Gold online. Maybe even a third worker rather than the settler? They seem to have a lot to do -- quarry, pasteurize, chop, mine the Gold, farm the Rice and maybe a riverside grassland (we still need Ag. After Masonry? Or fit Archery in first?)....

I don't see the Oracle for us this game. We don't have Marble, and I don't feel like we have the time for Poly-Priest. The GL will be especially good, though.

So much to do, so much to do....

peace,
lilnev

 

[johnny_rico]

Pyramids + GL sounds good. Will we get a higher yield of chopping trees for hammers because we have stone? I think we do and if so, we should chop that pyramid. You can't say no to free hammers.

I would vote for a settler over another worker. We've got to get the third city up and rolling lest alex consumer more of our real estate. I've been boxed in before with only two cities. It's tough to climb out of that.

 

[lilnev]

If I've done my calculations right (no guarantees), we could finish the Pyramids in 1160 BC, while producing a warrior and 2nd and 3rd workers and only chopping one forest.

After turn 4: growth to size 4 and warrior done. Work Clams+Cow+2 mines and build worker.
9: worker done with 5 hammers overflow. Start another worker. Existing worker has finished roading, chopped a forest for the monument, and returned to Berlin.
10: road on Cows done. Borders pop.
11: road segment added.
14: worker done with 10 hammers overflow. Start pyramids (Cow+3 mines).
15: quarry complete ('Mids at 23/450).
16: road on Stone (49/450, gaining 26/turn henceforth).
... chop one forest for 40 hammers ...
30: Pyramids done (453/450).

Chopping a second forest only speeds it up by a turn, a third would shave an additional 2 turns (1280 BC). Starting earlier instead of the third worker would save 2 turns.

That counts on Hamburg to do a lot in the meantime, but with the 3rd worker we could chop a fair bit while it grows onto Rice+Gold+mine.

peace,
lilnev

p.s. Yes, chop-hammers are doubled by Stone. The third worker allows the 'Mids to be started 3 turns sooner than a settler would, and could help bring Hamburg up to speed. Then we could chop a settler in Hamburg (people made out of wood? Huh.)

 

[johnny_rico]

p.s. Yes, chop-hammers are doubled by Stone. The third worker allows the 'Mids to be started 3 turns sooner than a settler would, and could help bring Hamburg up to speed. Then we could chop a settler in Hamburg (people made out of wood? Huh.)

We can name the settler pinocchio.

 

[futurehermit]

^^Hi guys, I love the idea of the pyramids. However, as I said initially...if we plant a city right beside Alex we have to be prepared to attack him!!! We will likely be his worst enemy and if we're building wonders not units there is at least an average chance that he will DoW on us. If he comes at us with phalanxes I don't exactly like the prospect of defending with chariot/warrior/even archer...

I think we need to get to alphabet and trade for IW and hopefully Math to unlock construction...Of course masonry is an acceptable deviation being a prereq for construction, but I think we need to be ready for the possibility of an Alex attack...

If we can get pyramids + GL that would be of course huge. I'm just concerned with an aggressor on our doorstep when we planted a city right beside his giving border negative modifiers which seems to be the surest invite to an invasion...

 

[futurehermit]

Hey everybody,

I'd appreciate your thoughts on this note I wrote in the strategy section:

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=208504

I think it could be relevant for our game

 

[lilnev]

OK, so we're at a major decision point:
1) Rush Alex with chariots.
2) Go for the Pyramids.
3) Emphasize peaceful expansion into the open lands to our south.

(3) just seems weaker than (2) to me. If we're not going to attack Alex, then the Pyramids will be worth more than another city or two. The Rice-Wine-Ivory spot might be vulnerable (though I don't think either Alex or Hannibal would move there next), but even if we lose that spot no one is going to take our Fish-Wheat site.

So the question is whether a chariot war is a better plan than the Pyramids. With Stone, 1 Pyramids = 9 chariots.

I've never been all that fond of non-UU chariots, and rushing the Greeks with potential Copper access seems... sketchy. The best I can see is forcing him to turtle, either by hitting him ASAP but weakly if he hasn't yet connected the Copper, or massing enough to take out the mine even with some losses. Then it's an arms race; we've got good production, but it seems like an expensive war rather than a profitable one. I suppose we could really mass an army, 20 chariots or so, and try to overwhelm Athens immediately. But losses would be very heavy to fortified archers and phalanxes in a +40% city, and depending on where he puts his next cities it could be a long walk to get there, giving him too much warning time. I don't know. Does someone want to make the case for war?

Re-reading your post, it sounds like you're more advocating for a prepared defence rather than for an offensive campaign. Maybe we should build the Pyramids, but with a militaristic fallback plan: build a barracks instead of worker#3 or the settler, so we can go to war mode if need be. Maybe even put the Pyramids on hold while building a few archers or chariots. How late can we expect to get it on Emperor? Hamburg could put one turns worth of hammers into a wall (cheap with Stone!) so that it could be emergency-whipped if needed. Hamburg's most important tile (the Gold) is on a hill and could be protected by archers so that our research didn't totally die.

peace,
lilnev

 

[lasombra]

hi. lilnev. yeah i'm definately for the defensive with pyramids. no 3rd worker instead some protection. I'll chop the monument in hamburg and build a 2nd worker and then go for masonry after mysticism.

how do I take screen shots?

 

[lilnev]

Shift-PrtScn, near the top right of the keyboard. They'll show up in My Documents/My Games/Screenshots, I think. Something like that, not too hard to find.

 

[lasombra]

cool thanks

 

[lasombra]

Ok my turns:

2360 BC did not switch to slavery, thought we can't afford to lose a turn and have enough production anyways

2320 - 2200 BC let worker finish road to hamburg and than started on the road to the stone site

2160 Berlin finishes warrior, set production to worker, make tile switch to riverside hill, worker takes one turn less (took the picture one turn later)

2160 Hamburg finishes warrior, set it to barracks for one turn until mysticism comes in

2160 send both worriors fogbusting one east one south, look what we find

2120 get mysticism, switch production in hamburg to monument

2120 worrior earns woodsman1 promotion

2080 - 2000 BC when I finished, worker was done, masonry is due in 2 turns and haven't set a new production target in berlin, yet. I actually suggest a 3rd worker, only takes 4 turns I think. warrior is only 1.

some more pics

I'm not sure if we should add in archery now or go straight for alphabet. what do you think?

 

[futurehermit]

ok, we're going to need a settler asap imo! and where to put that stone site??

i think a detour to archery might be in order. if alex DoW on us with phalanxes we are screwed imho...

i would also suggest that we then go for alpha-lit-drama and use the culture slider to increase our happiness to boom our cities while raising an army to attack alex.

thoughts?

edit: and why couldn't alex have put that northern city in a better spot?! *sigh* we're probably going to have to raze and resettle it...

 

[futurehermit]

Roster

Galileo44
vra379971
Futurehermit
Lilnev
Lasombra
Giaur-Up! (needs to post "got it")
Johnny_Rico-On Deck

 

[Giaur]

Got it. But I need to have access to current savegame. Lasombra forgot about it.

 

[futurehermit]

^^^Well then you haven't got it then have you j/k!

lasombra just picked up my bad habit, that's all

 

[lilnev]

So Alex screwed up another city placement? This one I didn't think he could possibly get wrong.

Next city should claim Ivory. Either the desert spot NE of Rice (bringing in Wine) or the plains hill 2W of Rice to also work the Horse. That would fit nicely with a Fish-Wheat city to run specialists. The only good spot for a true "Stone city" would be 2S of Stone, claiming Wheat, and that sort of strands the Fish.

We don't yet have Ag, correct? I think that's the next tech for the Rice, then I think we want Archery. I don't trust him, and chariots/warriors just won't stand. Worker#3, barracks, or settler in Berlin?

peace,
lilnev

 

[futurehermit]

^^^definitely settler imo, we need our 3rd city going strong while pyramids are building...i think we want to claim that wine...hmm...we have wine...should we go for monarchy earlyish or wait to trade for it...?

 

[lilnev]

I don't think we have time for Monarchy. We need Alphabet to open up trading, then probably Construction to fight with, then Literature. Hopefully we can trade Construction for Monarchy, and maybe Calendar or CoL if we're lucky. Assuming we succeed in getting the Pyramids, I think we should hold the GE (should be born around 500 BC) for the Great Library. With Stone and no Marble, it's actually a slower build than the Pyramids, and we're going to need to be cranking out units. Using a GE might mean we could push back Poly-Lit for a bit, but we'll see where we're at. Right now our research is pathetic (though our production is good). The Gold will help a lot (almost doubling it), but really we won't have much of an economy until Libraries are up and we're in Representation.

I think I'm leaning towards either a 3rd worker or a barracks. Our existing workers have a lot to do: road and quarry, pasteurize Horse, chop and mine and farm by Hamburg. Plus chopping for the Pyramids, roading the Rice and towards the third site, and any additional chopping we want to do at Hamburg. I think adding a worker to help carry that load is better than adding a city to increase the worker-load even further. And maintenance costs would go up. A barracks would be the conservative "in case we get attacked" play, which has a completely different set of merits.

peace,
lilnev

 

[Galileo44]

Hi, I'm finally getting internet for a while. I see some nice turns have gotten up. I also see that Alex is expanding quickly and stupidly. How could he have gotten the northern city wrong?! I think that at this point, Pyramids followed by getting Alex with cats seems like a good plan. That will also open up the GL for our GE as lilnev said. I think we should chop a settler in Hamburg to get the city site where the fogbusting Warrior is in the south. It will grab quite a bit of grassland as well as plenty of production. After the Pyramids, we should try to get out to 4 or 5 cities while teching to construction to take out Alex. As our army is being built, go for Lit to grab the GL. If we can get some cities out, we can cottage them because of the happiness boost from representation or HR.