Emperor Domination

[lasombra]

giving stone to alex sounds like a nice idea... we definately seem to need metals , so let's postpone any future plannings to after BW.

a general question I have: Should we take out Alex asap or wait and trade with him...?

 

[futurehermit]

Pyramids are usually built around 1000BC on emperor. I doubt we can attack Alex effectively by that point. The question is, do we want to build that stone city that early?

I think next move should be build the city toward Alex to the East, research bronze working to see if we have copper, and then re-evaluate. Thoughts?

 

[johnny_rico]

I completely agree that the second city should be built towards alex, and fast. We want to scoop up that rice (?) and the gold. Someone pointed out earlier we'll need a quick monument build in that city.

I don't think we can afford to build a city to get the stone. It's too close to the capital and we need to build forward. Of course, we haven't seen who is to our west (my guess is nobody), but there will definitely be someone to our south removing our yet to be claimed jungle.

Metal I think is a priority. We're going to need axes to deal with alex's phalanx. Our chariots will be purely defensive units. If we don't have copper, should we rush towards iron or hold off on the war until construction is researched. To me, that seems a little late for a first war when domination is the pre-planned victory. Not to mention, our elephants will be hindered by the phalanx. Without copper, we may to turtle early on.

 

[johnny_rico]

giving stone to alex sounds like a nice idea... we definately seem to need metals , so let's postpone any future plannings to after BW.

a general question I have: Should we take out Alex asap or wait and trade with him...?

I think the answer to your question lies with knowing our proximity to a copper resource. If we get hosed on metals, I think an early war with alex will be difficult because of his UU.

 

[Galileo44]

If we have horses, then we could build a chariot immediately. Then declare on Alex and use the chariot to block his metals from getting hooked up/pillage the mine. Then a chariot rush might work. I think strategy really depends on the availability of the strategic resources. I think that after BW, mysticism may be in order, as many of our potential cities would become much better with full BFCs. There is still much territory to explore and the strategic resources have not shown up yet. By the time the next round or two is over, my dotmap may be completely useless.

PS. I will be in China and Japan from tomorrow until the 26th. I do not know the availability of internet/Civ yet, so I will probably have to be skipped if my turn comes up in that time period.

 

[lasombra]

yeah but I meant: Do we want to kill him or even if we could do we rather want to trade with him if there are no other trading possibilites?

 

[Giaur]

Red dot gives less plains than 1E of that place. And it gives also two mines placed on grassland as well (which are little better than those placed on plains).

Trading Stone to Alex is not very certain deal since he is not Industrious leader. However he is philosophical so if he manage to complete Pyramids, it won't take long since he completes another wonder (rushed). Perhaps GL, if we gave him Literacy. It's just a theory. And of course we should take him down immediately when he completes Pyramids, but chances are small. Besides his favourite civic is Heralditary Rule, I think.

Collosus is crap, I know. And recently I am against placing too many cities on coast, because they steal trade routes from inland cities. But Colossus produces Great Merchants which means upgrades for free. It's important in domination. Besides it's very cheap if we have chopper. And Metal Casting with Gold and Silver within our grasp should be our priority. If you disagree, forgive me. It's me addiction to founding too many religions and constructing too many wonders.

So who is playing now?

edit: improved Silk produces only more commerce, the same does cottage

 

[futurehermit]

^^^Giaur are you done your round??? If so, I could go next or else Vra if he's around???

Colossus is only good for financial leaders imo...

Since we're philosophical GL is most important imo. I don't think we can rely on Alex to build it for us. I think if we don't have copper we should beeline alphabet and trade for ironworking to see if we have iron...if it was any other leader I would suggest beelining construction first instead, but those phalanxes...

 

[lilnev]

giving stone to alex sounds like a nice idea.

I like this idea. It may come too late to influence/help him towards the pyramids (unless we get a library up, Berlin's second border pop won't come til turn 50). But it can't hurt, and any hammers he spends that way aren't spent on archers and phalanxes.

I think next move should be build the city toward Alex to the East, research bronze working to see if we have copper, and then re-evaluate. Thoughts?

Sounds like we've reached consensus on this much (Fishing still ahead of BW as per the original plan, yes?). I think I prefer red dot, for the second grass hill (Rice+Gold+2 grass mines = food neutral at size 4). It also leaves more space for an eventual Silk city, though unless there's food just south of what we can see, that'll be very slow-growing.

I think that after BW, mysticism may be in order, as many of our potential cities would become much better with full BFCs.

We may want to fit the Wheel in there first. Or if we have neither Copper nor Horses, we may need Archery (ugh). But yes, we will need Mysticism.

... If so, I could go next or else Vra if he's around???

Vra said he would play the second round. Third OK with you, futurehermit?

peace,
lilnev

 

[Galileo44]

yes, the pyramids are expensive, and it is great if we can get Alex to throw 300 hammers into them(AI boosts and Stone), thats 8 and a half phalanxes less! Much easier to get him if he wastes his production on tasty wonders.

 

[Giaur]

yes, the pyramids are expensive, and it is great if we can get Alex to throw 300 hammers into them(AI boosts and Stone), thats 8 and a half phalanxes less! Much easier to get him if he wastes his production on tasty wonders.

He won't waste it. He will go for Monarchy and will be happy with Heralditary Rule. He does not care about Representation.

Futurehermit: You said some posts before that we will play in the order of submission. So I guess I will play my turns after you. And Vra is playing, I think, now.

edit: I agree that Colossus is important for financial traits mainly. But GL, without access to marble is waste too. It's much better to build instead 250/50=5 (I guess) horse archers instead.

edit2: but what a farpredicting (a word designed myself) issue. Before Ironage we will be the only civilization on earth ;p. Year and a half ago I made rush with my Immortals and destroyed 2 civilizations in bronze age. And I did not know then what the chopping is.

 

[johnny_rico]

I hadn't thought about that lilnev. I suggested the idea of gifting stone just to see if a philosophical neighbor would have an interest in building them. The possiblity of alex burning a bunch of hammers on the pyramids vs. building units had not occured to me as a good thing. I was only thinking about capturing the pyramids. I suppose it is also possible alex could build the great wall and pop the pyramids with a GE. Since he's philo the GW will yield 2 GPP/turn.

 

[johnny_rico]

yeah but I meant: Do we want to kill him or even if we could do we rather want to trade with him if there are no other trading possibilites?

I suppose we will have to see who else is on our landmass. Given his proximity, I doubt we're the only two. Alex is a pain of a neighbor though, and we're better off wiping him out as early as we can. That whole 'land is power' thing.

 

[futurehermit]

Ok, if Vra is playing now, that's great! I will go 3rd then.

IMO GL is always great for a philosophical leader because it will help enormously in generating GSs as we go for early liberalism after hopefully attacking Alex...

edit: Ah, I see my mistake now, I thought Giaur went first...what I meant then is, is Galileo's turn finished??? I assume so...

edit2: I just wanted to say I just finished an ultimately failed (Shaka attacked [pleased] from the other continent ca. 1600ad when I was already at war with a powerful vicky...), but substantially improved (imo) emperor domination attempt with Louis. I chopped the pyramids, built the parthenon (ai always builds it late for some reason...), then the GL (I had marble so that helped with both those two wonders), and then used a GE on the NE in my GL city. I had a very strong early game that I didn't leverage near enough imo, but was first to liberalism ca. 800 with not running caste system (huge mistake in retrospect...). The power of those wonders together is extraordinary and I left a lot of untapped potential there. So, yeah, if we can get the pyramids by hook or by crook this game then that would help a lot (don't need parthenon cuz philosophical) and GL is always great!!!

 

[futurehermit]

Something I wanted to say from the beginning is that CoL seems extraordinarily important for Freddy. Organized = cheap courthouses (CoL) and Philosophical = more gp, which is greatly enhanced by caste system (CoL). So, both traits really benefit from this tech. I was thinking maybe if we saw marble we could discuss an oracle-col slingshot, but I don't think that is the best idea given Alex close by and no marble...

But, I think we should try and get CoL sooner than later, what do you think? A timeline I've heard is CoL by 500BC???

 

[lasombra]

ok there is a consensus on founding that 2nd city in the red spot or at least on east.

well, having pyramids and partenon is always good, but we have to see if it's really worth it. philosphical and pyramids is always a good idea so if it's reasonably possible we should pursue them.

GL is a must!!!

 

[Giaur]

You simply overpower GL. I like this wonder also, but the same effect has taking off two mine workers and pursuing them as scientists (with loss 6-8 hammers). If no Pyramids at our hand, we should skip GL, cause no marble. With 5-7 horse archers we have two cities for free, so loss of 8 hammers won't be harmful. If Pyramids are build by us or Alex, GL must be build.

I agree with you futurehermit that CoL should be advanced sooner rather than later. Oracle should be build, cause we can lightbulb then Theology, which is a step before Paper. But without access to marble it's risky. It's too soon to say more.

If we decide sell stone to Alex, we should prioritize constructing trade route beetween us and him. Some observations from my Emperor games:
Pyramids 500BC
Oracle 1500-1200BC
Stonehenge 1800-1500BC
Theology (christianity) 0AD
Judaism 2200BC
sometimes it's built (advanced) earlier.

I am very curious of your own observations (all of you).

 

[futurehermit]

^^^I would agree with those observations. I do think that we should go for the GL no matter what. Those 6x2=12 (24 w/pacificism right?) gpp are just too important to pass up imo...

 

[lasombra]

is actually someone playing now?

we're making plans and plans nad don't even play

 

[futurehermit]

Has vra posted "got it"???