Emperor Playthrough

[jaycuhbbb]

Hello . I have been playing Emperor for a very long time and I feel it may be time to move up to Immortal. Before I do that I would like to post a typical game for me on the forums to get some feedback. I will try to explain my thought process as to why I'm making certain decisions to get the best advice possible. You should all have a lot to disagree about. Critique from all levels of play is welcome.


The map:
Fractal
Standard size
Normal speed
All standard options
Random leader
First roll:
The leader....

Not very experienced playing with this guy but I've been on the receiving end of many SoDs from him in other games. I guess one good thing is that he won't be spawning in this game. The starting techs look decent, Agriculture is my favorite starting tech and hunting is useful to get those early huts. <3 luck. Together they allow for a fast animal husbandry, but I'd prefer to go for bronze first to see if we can take advantage of my aggressive trait. I don't really like aggressive as a trait because lately most of my wars have been renaissance times and imo at that point the free combat promo is not very useful when you're either slamming cavs into fortified walls or attacking at 95% odds because of cannons. However in this case the barracks also helps maintenance by 20% making aggressive pretty useful for me. Expansive on the other hand I really like, faster worker production + fast granaries/harbors + extra health really accelerate your empire's growth. I doubt I will make much use of the UU, but maybe we can try some worker sniping or something.

The start....

Quite a beautiful start. That's a lake so the Corn is irrigated. Plenty of flood plains and 5 hills in sight. This will make a beautiful bureaucracy capital. I don't see any reasonable place to move so I will settle in place and start the first round. One thing I would like advice on is, cottaging vs. farming those FPs. My instinct is to farm the FPs and the corn to abuse the whip on some expansive workers->settlers then cottage them later shortly before bureau. But I am open to advice... For now, SIP mining-> bronze working, hope for some copper in those hills!

 

[jaycuhbbb]

Turns 4000BC-1960BC / 51 Turns

Turns 1-10

Spoiler :

4000bc-Settle in place reveals an oasis. Scout pops hut for 32g
3850bc- Scout pops hut for 41g.
Check out this potential city:

Looks like maybe this game won't be so hard.

Turns 11-20

Spoiler :

3560bc- Meet Napoleon

A capable warmonger but my scout hasn't found him yet so hopefully he's nowhere close. Does this guy declare at pleased?
3240bc-

Where to go with the worker? I decided to go for the riverside plains hill.

Turns 21-30

Spoiler :

3120bc-Bronze in and we have copper nearby. Research set to the wheel.

If there is any seafood when settling on the stone, that will be a great maoi city.
2800bc-A 2 pop whip on an expansive worker will yield some great overflow.

Turns 31-40

Spoiler :

2760bc-Like this, I also chopped a forest

2520bc- Wheel in, pottery next.
2320bc - Meet Sitting Bull.

Sitting Bull and Napoleon have very different peaceweights so it's almost predetermined that they will be at each other's throats. This is good and bad for me. I don't really have to worry about either of them attacking me and Sitting Bull/Napoleon will probably be pretty evenly matched assuming one of them doesn't get some insane uber start. The downside is that we probably won't be a very happy continent so it'll be difficult to get any useful techs for them to research for me. I guess I can sell them backwards techs to fuel my own research though. Maybe I'm getting ahead of myself.

Turns 40-51

Spoiler :

2280bc- I can 2-pop whip a worker now. I want to wait a couple turns though so that I can put that overflow into a half-cost granary when I finish researching pottery. Like so....
2160bc-

Research switched to mysticism.
1960bc-Myst in, research set to writing.
The western areas :

The capital, next whip will be a settler to claim some contested areas.

Overall I'm pretty happy with my position, this may be an easy (but fun) game!

 

[jaycuhbbb]

Turns 1960bc-350bc / 50 turns

Turns 51-60

Spoiler :

1720bc-Writing in. Research set to AH to find out where the horsies are before we set off research.
1680bc-bad event Almost cancels out one of the huts

1640bc-I get this city to stake my claim over much of the territory up north. It's going to be a very good city on its own as well.

Turns 61-70

Spoiler :

1480bc-AH in. Indeed we have horsies! Research set to 0% until we get some libraries up.

Turns 71-80

Spoiler :

1240bc- Hinduism spreads, revolt
1120bc-Barb issues . In my last game I saw Frederick actually use a tactical nuke on a barb city. Haha, I only have archers + warriors though....

900bc-Sitting Bull settles a city right on top of mine. And we were getting along so well....

Turns 71-90

Spoiler :

620bc-Aesthetic in. Nobody has Alphabet so I guess I'll have to research that too. Nothing too exciting these couple rounds, just more rexing and growth. Napoleon went WHEEORN and I am almost certain it's against SB as they were worst enemies throughout most of this turnset. Even if it is me I have nothing to fear, he's too far away to do much damage.

Turns 90-101

Spoiler :

400bc-Alphabet in. Research set to currency.
350bc-My core:

Sitting Bull:

Napoleon:

Northern unclaimed territory :

My precious :

Plan for next turnset is to block off that great northern territory, power through currency->monarchy->CoL->lit while these two fight to the death.

 

[Gumbolt]

Overall you have a cottage heaven capital. Stone near BFC. Copper not too far off either. You can even afford to whip capital a bit early on with so many food rich tiles.

My only quibble is you settled second city on flood plains. I would of settled on the grassland so you get the extra food. I assume you will irrigate the FP to you the 3 gold. On the flipside settling where you did give 2 immediate gold.

It would have been nice to see you explore east to see the land there. The stone city seems a no brainer.

Once you get copper set up and fog bust a bit your only danager will be the French go unit crazy. With the stone you could build the great wall but dont let this dilute your gp farm later on. Getting 2-3 great spies can be annoying if you are not after a scouting unit!!

 

[Gumbolt]

Okay we cross posted.

On 350bc save. You have 0 cottages in your entire empire!! I would of cottaged the 5-6 FP in capital BFC and used the stone city for production.

You lack happiness resources. You could of done with mids or monarchy to help you through the early stages. Using science as a build is useful but its no replacement for cottages or specialists. Its not as though your economy should be in recovery with 3 gold resources.

You are somewhat boxed in by SB. His uu make anything but a HA rush a joke. Axes would be eaten up by dog soldiers and he has chariots sitting around. Be wary of the French they are in WHEOOHRN now. That little red fist shows he is building units for a planned war. You or Ghandi. Hmmm.

 

[Fleme]

Without any further comments on the game, I just got to say that I hate seeing someone settle on flood plains so readily. I never do it unless I absolutely have to and neither of your first two cities have to be on FPs.

 

[KingMorgan]

Decided to play along.



To 1AD

Spoiler :

With the corn I decided to cottage the capital from the outset, 2nd city went on the grassland - didn't want to waste that gold. Plenty of farming to support it. 3rd city took the stone and bronze, the fish made it worthwhile, 4th city went to the horse and fish - later M Statues, love the stone bonus. CoL gave me Confu, i'd taken maths for the chooping bonus on the 'Mids, saw the Oracle was availble around 1000BC, thought i'd build it for the failure cash, managed Civil Ser as no one else had bothered.

Chnaged to Rep and Bure

Stupid events killed my bronze, just as i was building an axe to deal with a barb axe heading for my cap, managed to get an impi there in time, events are bloody lame imo.

horsehockeyting bull beat me to the spices and looks like he will beat me to the sugars, I hate him so much, probaly head to gunpowder and catpualts, seems the business end of a musket is all indian boy understands. I'll see what the North West looks like first before deciding.

Got the library event, not sure if it's possible without delaying Edu, with stone it seems hardly worth it - running 2 scientists in the Mids city, so dependant what GP pops may influence my thinking. must find Nappy too, although as he and horsehockeyting are worst enm, i may stir up some trouble.

Spoiler :

http://img187.imageshack.us/img187/2404/civ4screenshot0212x.jpg
http://img187.imageshack.us/img187/7715/civ4screenshot0211.jpg
http://img2.imageshack.us/img2/2079/civ4screenshot0210.jpg
http://img297.imageshack.us/img297/3526/civ4screenshot0209.jpg

View attachment Morgan AD-0001.CivBeyondSwordSave

 

[KingMorgan]

Without any further comments on the game, I just got to say that I hate seeing someone settle on flood plains so readily. I never do it unless I absolutely have to and neither of your first two cities have to be on FPs.

Your speaking from a marathon speed point of view, normal speed every turn counts.

No excuse for the 2nd city placement though

 

[Sian]

as far as i can see you're a bit to scared about overlapping ...

 

[jaycuhbbb]

Yes the 2nd city should have gone 1n. In my defense though, that city is going to be doing the 2fp/3gold thing for a while anyway I am not afraid to overlap, you can see the fish city is 2 tiles from the capital. I would say more that I'm more concerned with grabbing as much land as possible.

 

[Gumbolt]

Decided to play along.



To 1AD

Spoiler :

With the corn I decided to cottage the capital from the outset, 2nd city went on the grassland - didn't want to waste that gold. Plenty of farming to support it. 3rd city took the stone and bronze, the fish made it worthwhile, 4th city went to the horse and fish - later M Statues, love the stone bonus. CoL gave me Confu, i'd taken maths for the chooping bonus on the 'Mids, saw the Oracle was availble around 1000BC, thought i'd build it for the failure cash, managed Civil Ser as no one else had bothered.

Chnaged to Rep and Bure

Stupid events killed my bronze, just as i was building an axe to deal with a barb axe heading for my cap, managed to get an impi there in time, events are bloody lame imo.

horsehockeyting bull beat me to the spices and looks like he will beat me to the sugars, I hate him so much, probaly head to gunpowder and catpualts, seems the business end of a musket is all indian boy understands. I'll see what the North West looks like first before deciding.

Got the library event, not sure if it's possible without delaying Edu, with stone it seems hardly worth it - running 2 scientists in the Mids city, so dependant what GP pops may influence my thinking. must find Nappy too, although as he and horsehockeyting are worst enm, i may stir up some trouble.

Spoiler :

http://img187.imageshack.us/img187/2404/civ4screenshot0212x.jpg
http://img187.imageshack.us/img187/7715/civ4screenshot0211.jpg
http://img2.imageshack.us/img2/2079/civ4screenshot0210.jpg
http://img297.imageshack.us/img297/3526/civ4screenshot0209.jpg

View attachment 239761

Spoiler :

Your play is just as i suggested to the initial poster. I really dont feel moving settler one turn at start would of killed the game. You can expand aggressively now and surge ahead techwise. What are you saving all the forest for?? Health bonus?

 

[Sian]

well ... if you look at this Screen you'll see that i've packed my cities somewhat tighter ticking in at a total city count (when the two last settlers get to thier destinations at the easten and westen coast) of 14

Spoiler :

 

[KingMorgan]

@Gummy

Spoiler :

Laziness / not got around to chopping them yet, sunday mornings are not my most awake time of the weekend They will make good catpualts later on

@Sian

Spoiler :

What strat are you thinking? Space? packing those cities in looks like micro nightmare for me. i do question if some of your placements will be cost effective, i've always believed that fewer cities working high yield tiles is the way to go in BTS.

My take on this game is that an early Oxford will be superior to packing in cities, not that I can't see the advantages of your strat, just it's alot of work. I'm more keen on using a huge tech lead to crush sitting then nappy at a time of my choosing, i guess i'm just lazy!

 

[Sian]

@King Morgan

Spoiler :

My plan is to demolish Bull and Nappy with Cannons/whatever (proberly Maces) followed by a strike on the other contient(s?)

 

[Gumbolt]

@Gummy

Spoiler :

Laziness / not got around to chopping them yet, sunday mornings are not my most awake time of the weekend They will make good catpualts later on

@Sian

Spoiler :

What strat are you thinking? Space? packing those cities in looks like micro nightmare for me. i do question if some of your placements will be cost effective, i've always believed that fewer cities working high yield tiles is the way to go in BTS.

My take on this game is that an early Oxford will be superior to packing in cities, not that I can't see the advantages of your strat, just it's alot of work. I'm more keen on using a huge tech lead to crush sitting then nappy at a time of my choosing, i guess i'm just lazy!

@ Sians play and KM

Spoiler :

All in all at this stage he is posting the highest beakers per turn. Its a different but productive approach. Its been well pointed out before most cities wont use of all the tiles in the BFC till late game anyway.

That being said both Sian and King Morgans games look promising. I look forward to following both.

Sometimes having left over forest can be useful. I often gind I chop mine far too quickly and readily.

 

[Sian]

keep in mind Gumbolt that my Screen is from 560AD

Personally i'm a fan of tight citybuilding exacly because of that I know that it'll be lategame before its a protential issue ... remember, its first after Nationhood goes out of style that its can be an issue (More cities means more, or at least less paincausing, drafting)

Futhermore ... all my cities can work a private Food Resource for growth/Specialists expect two (a blocker with 2 Spices, and a filler which is that close to the capital that it doesn't do any harm)

 

[jaycuhbbb]

I am not so sure I am even going to draft this game. The capital is a beautiful bureau and there is enough production to crank out a Cavalry force instead of relying on drafted Rifles. On the other hand, I don't think I can goto Universal Suffrage when its available due to the a lack of happiness. This will really hurt production because of all the cottages I am planning to make. But still I am confident that I will be able to hit SB or Napoleon with Cavs before they have any reasonable counter.

I'm gonna refrain from looking at your screenshots until I finish my game, but you are probably correct that my city "tightness" is suboptimal.

Turns 350bc-800ad / 50 turns
Turns 101-110

Spoiler :

275bc-Currency in, I make this trade with Napoleon. Research set to Priesthood. Great Scientist born, sent to capital for Academy.

250bc-Cool event. Research set to Monarchy.

175bc-Monarchy in, revolt to Hereditary Rule and research set to Literature.

Turns 111-120

Spoiler :

75ad-Great General BIDL. Good, the other civs are fighting. At some point around here I'd finished lit and started on Iron Working.

125ad-Napoleon makes a demand. He's been WHEOOHRN for quite a long time now... maybe I am his target? I give in regardless.

150ad- Iron Working in. Research set to math.

Turns 121-130

Spoiler :

300ad- Math in, research set to drama. I'd just spent the last few turns growing my cap awaiting this moment, full speed on The Great Library!

Turns 131-140

Spoiler :

400ad-Tech screen

560ad- Damn. At least I get a lot of failure gold to speed through music. However, this really slows me down... I won't have a scientist to bulb philosophy when I get my GA from music. This means I have to wait a while before sparking the golden age because I like to switch into caste/pacifism to maximize the gp I get while in the GA. This will result in a much later lib date. Production started on the National Epic.

Turns 141-150

Spoiler :

660ad- Music in, research set to meditation.

680ad- meditation in, research set to monotheism, I don't revolt because most cities are building units to up their happy caps and I am planning on a huge civics change when I spark my GA
720ad-Trade with Napoleon. Research set to Civil Service.

800ad- Capture barb city. I raze it so I can get the Deer in the bfc.

Zulu lands :

The capital :

Native American lands :

French lands (note Napoleon has been in war mode for milleniums now....) :

Tech situation :

Demographics :

Plan for the next round is to squirt out a scientist after the capital is finished with the National Epic, then revolt to Bureau/Caste/Pacifism for the GA and then switch back to Bureau/Slavery/Org Religion

 

[jaycuhbbb]

Come on guys, I'm sure there is plenty to pick on This is where my play gets shaky...

Turns 800AD-1400AD / 50 turns
Turns 151-160

Spoiler :

800ad- Start turn by successfully begging spices from SB, also sell my extra sheep for 4gpt to Napoleon

840ad- Civil Service in, research set to paper. I probably should switch immediately, but I want at least for the National Epic to finish before I go into the GA.
880ad- Silver pops in Ulundi forges may yet save me from my happiness issues

920AD- National Epic in, can't delay the civics switch any longer, golden age started and switch to bureau/caste/org religion. Also, SB finally wins his first ring outside Nohamba. I notice that the Swadobaasdapas whatevergon hasn't been built yet so I optimize Nohamba to build it in 8 turns. Turns out this wasn't necessary as I infact retook the tiles within a couple turns (culture building must have doubled or something)

960AD-Scientist pops. I make a bad mistake and finish paper on this turn too so the scientist will research education instead of philosophy . Guess pacifism just wasn't meant to be. Oh well, I guess I have to manually research philosophy then and save him for education.
980AD-Taoism FIDL, that religion could have been mine. I hope it starts some trouble between the other civs.

Turns 161-170

Spoiler :

1030ad- Philosophy in, revolt to Pacifism/Slavery (I figure it's better to allow the capital to work some of its tiles instead of acting as a gp farm. Pacifism will allow it to squirt out one more GS for liberalism which is all I really need.) Research set to Metal Casting
1040ad-SP in. I own his bfc anyway. Time to crank out some spies and use some of that ep.

1050ad- I meet Justinian. He already has caravels I refrain from trading with him in case his friends are close behind.
1060ad-An eventful turn. Metal Casting completes. The University of Sankore finishes....

I pop a GS and use him to finish Education...

Research is set to Nationalism.

Turns 171-180

Spoiler :

1110ad- Napoleon finally declares on Sitting Bull with this pathetic stack (about 5 to join them next turn...

1130ad- The demands start pouring in :

I also get a rather helpful event. You win some, you lose some :

1140ad- I find this pretty amusing because Cahokia has been in revolt for turns now due to the slave event... but he's still kicking Napoleon's butt

1170ad- Nationalism is in. I start the Taj (20 turns eta... lack of marble is killing me this game) and focus research on Construction->Gunpowder. I also make this trade with Napoleon (cancel Sheep for 4gpt):

Turns 181-190

Spoiler :

1220ad- Copper pops in Ulundi. .

1240ad - GS pops, bulbs Liberalism to 1 turn eta.
1270ad- Gunpowder in, research set to Machinery.
1280ad- Make this deal with Napoleon...

And this one...

Research set to optics. I think I will find the other continent/s and bulb Astronomy.
A peak at SB in war mode :

Turns 191-200

Spoiler :

1310ad- Optics in, research set to Printing Press. We finally start on Oxford, I'd been banking forest chops while building wealth in anticipation for this :

1350ad- The Taj and Oxford complete. Also, ANOTHER copper pops in Ulundi!

1370ad- Printing Press in, research to Engineering.
1380ad - We find the Mongols and are pleased that they don't hate us for making trades with their worst enemy. Liberalism astronomy

1390ad- We make this trade. We now have all the forge metals.

1400ad- We make this trade with Justinian.

A look at the empire :

Demographics :

Plans for the next round : Cavalry blitz to take over the continent.

 

[JBossch]

840AD:

Spoiler :

Tried this one just to see if I could pull off the CS slingshot like KingMorgan. Ended up just missing it but still managed Mids and got CS around 200BC. I am 1 turn from Lib in this save (though I am light years ahead of the AIs and it could be out off for steel or bio easily). Pretty fun map, not sure if I'll play it out.

 

[JBossch]

@jaycuhbb:

Spoiler :

I think, in general, your play improved as this game progressed. You seem to be totally on track now. I think the early stages are where you have room for improvement.

-I gotta disagree with not cottaging the capital immediately. With bureaucracy it is a beast. I teched wheel-pottery right off the bat and built a second worker at size 3. Worked out really well. Also, mine the grass hill before the plains hill.

-You might want to reconsider whipping the capital as much as you did. At times when you had a 2pop capital I was at pop6 working 4 flood cottages and a hill.

-As others pointed out, the gold city should have been settled 1N.

-Why did you go for all the marble wonders and none of the stone wonders, when you have stone and not marble? I agree with settling on the stone (it was my 3rd city) but then why not Mids? Especially considering the lack of happy resources.

Hope this helps.