Emperor Tutorial Series I - The Pyramids based SE (Monarch/Prince players welcome)

[feralminded]

Added play by plays for both my 4000->2500 save and the 2500->1000 save. If anyone is unsure of their ability to play at this level I recommend trying to follow along with the play by play. I didn't play a perfect game and I didn't write down every little thing I did but I hope it is instructive. I tried to make it clear what every worker was doing and whatnot.

About the only thing here that's close to the edge is the way I handled the Barbs. I am fairly confident when it comes to barbs and about the only thing that would be scary would be a spearman coming in but they can be handled with two warriors (very easy to whip out).

Also kudos to everyone who settled 1E ... that was probably the superior move. I was clearly not on the ball when I settled in place.

 

[futurehermit]

@feralminded:

Spoiler :

I don't understand why you settled your 3rd city 1 away from the coast and your 4th city 1 away from the river. 1N for the 3rd city and maybe 1NE for the 4th city might have been better?

 

[djvandrake]

Also feel free to play along. What's the worst that can happen ... you lose? You don't have to post it up ... lol ... the point here is to get people thinking not to display who has the highest score or quickest win. Even if you are struggling on monarch I think actually going through the turns and seeing what the process is can be very instructive. Honestly we are going to be taking this at a pace I think most people will be able to keep up (maybe a couple hours every 3-4 days). If you dead end or lose just pick up the next save a couple days later and try again.

Thank you. I will. Ramesses is one of my favorite leaders. And thanks for taking the time to do this instruction. I'm sure I'll learn a lot.

 

[Deckhand]

Pretty similar story to Bud's

Spoiler :

settled to E to get stone in BFC
two scouting warriors fought a Lot of panthers, somehow survived and became woodsmenII
built 2nd city to north to get horses and cows
barbarian archers nosing around, i'm nervous and build a few more warriors
built stonehenge in 2325 (turn 67) per recommendation
barbarians respect my borders
Great Wall is done in 8 turns, no more barb concerns
also have a barracks and one chariot
Finish Pyramids on turn 98, 2 turns behind The Beer King

Friendly Map. Perfect game so far. No losses. I don't think I've ever been this wonder greedy.

now what, where should I put my third city?

 

[TM Moot]

good thread, i've tried a few Emperor strategies (inc. Ramessess) without success so far, so will be watching with interest

 

[TheMeInTeam]

I'm going cottages just for the hell of it .

Ah, but that aside, I have a correction as to something you said about the leaders Feral:

Spoiler :

Pacal and Willem are both on the weak-average side of AIs in terms of how much they build units (both 25 unitprob). There's virtually no difference in their friendliness - Pacal has a peaceweight of 2 and Willem 4. Both of those values are somewhat warmonger-ish, and both are close enough that which one is more aggressive can flip game-to-game (though pacal will be a tad more on average, it isn't very notable). Pacal is a bit more zealous, but also easier to contain with favorite civics early (HR vs FR). Especially due to that last point, Pacal is usually easier to get along with, although probably not in a rep SE game lol. In my game, he just happens to be a heathen, so no HR buddies for me either!

 

[mc-red]

Ok I played to 950 BC it just seemed a bit better point to stop. Nothing happened in those extra turns that would be a spoiler at 1000BC.

I am playing my first ever emperor game so just trying to learn here.
Not to mention my first SE as I always go hybrid. Also first time as Ramses to complete the trifecta.

Well not doing as well as feral and Ai Shizuka but here it is anyway comments welcome:

Spoiler :

AH->Mining->BW->Myst->Masonry->writing->aesthetics
Stock piled some gold and will be pushing the slider into aesthetics.

worker->worker->warrior->warrior->settler->warrior
I forget after that but have two war chariots now.
Have not got my level three unit yet
Hopefully the wilds in the North east will provide enough fodder.
Only wonder I went for was the mids. I am worried that my economy will tank. Techs seem to take ages but I am trying to do this as an SE hopefully to learn it can be done.
I chickened out of an agressive block out of fear of econ. crashing and will try to make it up with a tech pace.
@feral like they way you are using the industrius trait to build wealth through failed wonders for multiplied gold. Will remember that trick.

The empire:
We have piled into the Jewish love fest here



Thebes:
I will share the corn for a while with memphis. Need to whip a library here in short order.


Memphis:
I have 100% chance of a scientist in 10 turns or I could stop growth and run another scientist and a priest and get most likely a GS but maybe a GP in 4 turns. Then I could give the corn back to Thebes and put an academy there. The stop growth strategy will speed up aesthetics by a turn but I don't
know how much a turn matters in this case. Maybe do this and drop slider only to pick it up afer acadamy and lib in cap.




Heliopolis:
Marginal city but has gold online will give me 12 hammers at size 7 and won't be a big strain on the eco as it is near capital. Maybe run a priest here.
Am thinking I want the angor watt in this game. Barracks and Library here.

Elephantine:

Just founded. Got to speed up!!! more EX than REX so far
I have access to metal though and this was the main purpose of the city.
Guess it can whip troops and pop can work farms till next whip. Long term probably workshop those plains.
Barracks here.

 

[PieceOfMind]

I'm going cottages just for the hell of it .

I'm probably gonna do the same. I usually favour cottage cities much more in most circumstances so if I give this game a shot I'll probably ignore the 'mids SE.

With stone and IND the GW will be easy to build anyway - always helps with barbs on emperor as it makes expanding so much easier.

 

[PieceOfMind]

Spoiler for 2500BC

Spoiler :

Things are looking good for getting the great wall. Have already marked out a few good sites for cities. I don't think I'll be rushing any civs.

Hoping to make a fairly convex (blob shape) empire.

Teched AH -> Mining -> Masonry (2 turns to go)

Thebes is gonna be a monster of a cottage capital (other than the corn, no farms will be needed at all!), and Memphis can build 3 farms to work the gold and stone, and then cottage the other green tiles.

Spoiler picture :

 

[budweiser]

Round II – 1600BC to 1000 BC

Spoiler :

Turn 96 – Switch to Rep + OR, working 2 priests up north and WC number 3 is coming in 7 turns. I need it to bust fog. BW is in 6 and I have a settler coming in 9. I got spoiled on accident a little bit and I know where the bronze is. I also know the land is clear to the east. No matter I was going to that bronze spot next anyway.

I plan on teching up the religious path to writing and math. It’s time to get a little more use from spi. I am actually gonna try for the GL and the other GL. We shall see. I think I did pretty good on that first round and I almost hate to proceed.
Here we go:
My northern WC just lost a 97.5! Reload (just kidding).

Turn 101 – I get a great prophet. Hmm, what to do? I think settle him up north.

Turn 102 – BW is in, Meditation in 6. Then I settled the GP, make that 5.

Turn 105 – 1375BC – settler is ready, Thebes pops culture. I am currently running 100% science with +4gtp extra.

Turn 106 – 1350BC I meet Caesar.

Turn 108 – 1300BC 3rd city founded to the west. Meditation came in, went Priest for 4.

Turn 120 – 1000BC – Northern city made WC and they went east. I lost 2 to barbs, high losses. I only have 4 WC on the map, having lost 2 or 3. Still, now I realize the lands to the east are now XP farming grounds, but there are also barb spears out there.

I researched Fishing and Sailing. I am going to make the GL in North City. I founded the city to the west and set it to a barracks.

The capitol made 2 workers. One worker is making a road to city 3, the others are each now chopping at their own city.

I need 1 more city up north on the river.

Willem is the only one that knows Alphabet.

So, I only got 3 cities out in 120 turns. I am not making any use of slavery. There is a Buddist block. My religion is not spreading because I don’t have open borders. I don’t feel safe enough to open my borders up and writing is coming in 5 turns anyway.

But I do have 3 wonders, 3 workers, 4 WC, OR, some religious buildings and a settled GP.

I want to keep going now but I will wait.

I want to start teching up the high end of the tree towards Literature. I may do an early GA with my next GP.

I can see me getting Hanging Gardens, Zeus and Great Library. But I may just be digging myself a hole and presenting too nice of a target. I need to scout Brennus to assess the threat. I need to keep expanding while I also build a credible defense.

 

[mc-red]

@pieceofmind

Spoiler :

You're right about that capital being one unbelievable cottage location.
I'm just trying to learn SE so have resisted the temptation.
Also, good to see someone else settle the gold city early.

 

[mc-red]

Also kudos to everyone who settled 1E ... that was probably the superior move. I was clearly not on the ball when I settled in place.

I don't know about that. In place seems pretty good too.

 

[mc-red]

@bud

Spoiler :

I'm thinking GL and HG too. Don't know if i have hammers for Zeus. Plus I am not blocking aggressively so won't have a turbocharged run with trait + ivory

 

[feralminded]

@futurehermit:

Spoiler :

I don't understand why you settled your 3rd city 1 away from the coast and your 4th city 1 away from the river. 1N for the 3rd city and maybe 1NE for the 4th city might have been better?

The 3rd city I debated for a long time before settling. I did not want to be on the coast because ocean/coast tiles suck and those green river tiles down south are very nice long term. It also helped being away from the coast to block off more land with my culture border. I also was not sure I could hold onto the rice without being adjacent to it.

My biggest issue here was deciding whether to settle on a hill or not. I really wanted to settle on that hill 1 E of me and I probably should have but I feared not having enough for production purposes. Ultimately this city is going to get absolutely pounded by attackers in the future so the hill was probably the better choice but I am fairly confident in my ability to defend almost any assault with siege + flankers ... so we'll see. Still I felt like any spot here was some kind of compromise.

The 4th city I needed on a hill because I'm definitely anticipating a violent war with Peter soon (he will be my first war of choice). I was also looking to block off a fair amount of land looking to make a solid culture block for Willem, Peter, and Brennus. I was less concerned about here because the elephants actually will be nice tiles once improved/chopped and the horses and other hills will be more than enough. This should be a rockin' city once I hit IW (I'll get that as soon as I get Aes in maybe 10-15 turns).

Any particular reasons I should have strongly considered putting my 3rd city 1N and my 4th 1 NE that I'm overlooking?

 

[feralminded]

I don't know about that. In place seems pretty good too.

Getting the stone is "ok" ... desert any resource is fairly crappy though ... but getting that Oasis is where it's at. An early Oasis tile in a BFC is very strong. I mean there's nothing wrong with in place and I don't feel like it hurt my game at all but it is slightly sub-optimal. If it was only the stone out there I wouldn't care but the Oasis was the prize.

 

[feralminded]

@Ai Shizuka

Spoiler :

An interesting game so far. You managed to sneak in Pottery and get a couple cottages up which got you ahead of my tech rate but I'd be curious who gets to Literature first. I am JUST hitting the SE-corner where I go from virtually no tech rate to working 3-4 scientists and fly by the AI. It takes some faith but it DOES work ... I hope to show that decisively in the next segment. That said due to the GW you also got your prophet earlier and that was a big win. Right now your economy is much stronger than mine. I would like to see how your economy looks over the course of the next segment next to mine because it should be a pretty instructive to see how the "pure" SE fares on the backs of it's farm powered scientists. I *should* have a decisive edge until those cottages grow up which *should* take most of the early game. All theory.

That said I am fearful of your Brennus infection . You're going to have to put him in his place soon. He shouldn't have Elephants so it might be worth foregoing the Glib and rushing construction. I don't care how many Guerilla promo's his archers have ... Jumbos win. It looks like he's forcing your hand here a bit.

 

[futurehermit]

@futurehermit:

Spoiler :

The 3rd city I debated for a long time before settling. I did not want to be on the coast because ocean/coast tiles suck and those green river tiles down south are very nice long term. It also helped being away from the coast to block off more land with my culture border. I also was not sure I could hold onto the rice without being adjacent to it.

My biggest issue here was deciding whether to settle on a hill or not. I really wanted to settle on that hill 1 E of me and I probably should have but I feared not having enough for production purposes. Ultimately this city is going to get absolutely pounded by attackers in the future so the hill was probably the better choice but I am fairly confident in my ability to defend almost any assault with siege + flankers ... so we'll see. Still I felt like any spot here was some kind of compromise.

The 4th city I needed on a hill because I'm definitely anticipating a violent war with Peter soon (he will be my first war of choice). I was also looking to block off a fair amount of land looking to make a solid culture block for Willem, Peter, and Brennus. I was less concerned about here because the elephants actually will be nice tiles once improved/chopped and the horses and other hills will be more than enough. This should be a rockin' city once I hit IW (I'll get that as soon as I get Aes in maybe 10-15 turns).

Any particular reasons I should have strongly considered putting my 3rd city 1N and my 4th 1 NE that I'm overlooking?

Spoiler :

Being on the coast gives access to the coastal buildings, such as lighthouse, harbor, etc. If coastal tiles suck with a lighthouse, they certainly suck much, much worse without one. If you did not want to settle on the coast, then maybe 1 S, SW, or SE [not sure which would be ideal without looking at the pic again]. Settling one off of a river means a loss of health, as well as levy bonus later in the game. I also think that settling along the river would've made for a stronger city overall. Also, I think if you settle on elephants it gives you +1 hammers for your city tile. I tend not to worry too much about settling on hills or not, since I always feel that a good offense, or at least active defense, is better than a passive defense.

 

[mc-red]

Getting the stone is "ok" ... desert any resource is fairly crappy though ... but getting that Oasis is where it's at. An early Oasis tile in a BFC is very strong. I mean there's nothing wrong with in place and I don't feel like it hurt my game at all but it is slightly sub-optimal. If it was only the stone out there I wouldn't care but the Oasis was the prize.

It would only matter at size one before Flood plains are farmed right?

That means lose one turn 3 food+1H+10C but gain 1C for about 25 turns.
So a pickup of about 15C - 3F - 1H.
Is that what you are saying?
Is my math right.

You also lose a GH and pickup stone. Lose a 2 grassland and pickup oasis+lake I think and lose FP for plain.
Also some tiles will no longer be in any BFC that get left on the west side.

 

[PieceOfMind]

Spoiler 1000BC

Spoiler :

lol Ok I went a bit silly. I got the GW up and then was twiddling my thumbs so I whipped out the stonehenge almost instantly as well. Finally Memphis built the pyramids while Thebes built more settlers and workers. I'm about to switch into HR at 1000BC and Thebes will start spewing out more workers and axes to deter other civs from attacking. A prophet has already popped in Thebes and I decided to settle it to help my rexing. +5 and +2 in the capital is very handy at the moment. I wasn't going to start taking religious techs just so I could found a later religion with it.

Third city was to secure a spot with silk down near Peter. Willem got a city out quickly to near the spot I wanted, so I'm gonna settle a bit east of the perfect spot for the fourth city, labelled "NEXT".

Spoiler pictures :

 

[feralminded]

@budweiser

Spoiler :

I think you should forego further wonderbuilding and focus on improving your land and expanding/defending. Our position isn't bad at all and you can still stick 3-4 cities in that peninsula and no one will take it from you so in theory you could get 6-8 cities here even without an aggressive Rex. That's still enough to win this game with but like I said don't get too distracted with the wonders. Zeus is a bit overrated (the AI's get a lot less WW than humans), HG is definitely overrated (though the GE points are nice), and the Glib is still a ways off yet so don't worry about much about it.

Right now I'd try and get one more southern expansion if you can (is that corn still open down there for you?) and then focus on fortifying and backfilling. Most of the AI's shouldn't get too testy too soon.