Emperor Tutorial Series I - The Pyramids based SE (Monarch/Prince players welcome)

[shyuhe]

Here's my save ~35BC. I doubt I'll finish this as the AI are way too backwards.

Spoiler :

I don't think 500 AD liberalism is doable because there's nothing to trade with the AI! You have to tech everything yourself. That being said, Liberalism is probably about 30 turns away on my save. I don't know what year that'll be on epic.



I settled in place, second city for horses (GP farm), 3rd city for gold. 4th city was on the coast, 5th city in the jungle for gems (barb city got in the way). The AI are in religious blocks warring so not much danger there. I'm in a fake war with JC.

I've built the GW (in the 3rd city - it'll never pop a GSpy), Pyramids, and GL. Now going to try the Hanging Gardens since there's nothing better to do. I've gotten two GS so far. First was academy, second was philosophy.

AI relations:


And tech:

 

[TheMeInTeam]

@ shyuhe:

What? Sell some tech for gold (or just beg since it's way too easy to get 1k gold+ across a game that way ) and deficit research. You could probably beat 500 AD easily, although I can see why you stopped . This map is pretty favorable to the human player no matter what you do. Lots of room for expansion, blocking, stone/ind for wonders, riverside for cottaging/bureaucracy, and AIs that will tend to declare on each other before you and are easily bribed if they don't get the urge on their own.

Basically it's just "stay alive and tech until you are confident you can steamroll absolutely everything". To speed things up all my captured cities followed this sequence:

1. Build culture for 1st border pop
2. Emphasize hammers
3. Queue up granary, forge, courthouse, barracks, stable in that order
4. Loop cavalry and waypoint them.

That's all the micro new cities got haha.

 

[shyuhe]

Yes this map is a little too generous to the human. I haven't even bothered settling my backlands

I've also remembered why Hatty is much better at running an SE than Ramesses. Faster libraries pre-caste makes a big difference. Granted industrious helps with the pyramids and NE but that's about it.

@TMIT: I'm starting to understand why you finish your games in 3-4 hours. I may have to try that queue order at some point.

 

[Thalur]

Well, I made it to 400AD. My first attempt was a bit of a mess as I didn't realise I had made the save without switching to representation. For my second attempt, I looked through Feral's example to get a better idea of the tech order, and how many cities I should be looking at building.

Spoiler :

As suggested, I went for a great spy from Memphis and wound up with a great prophet instead. Shortly after that, Thebes came up with another prophet! Thankfully, all the pollution of the GPP pool from the wonders has now cleared, so the next two were scientists. One I bulbed for philosophy in AD145, and the other built an academy in Thebes (I'm not sure if this was the best use - the bulb option was compass but that was only 5 turns, so I didn't bother). My next GS comes in 3 turns, should I use him on Civil Service (10 turns) or wait for paper?

I've settled a few more cities, but unfortunately Peter took the barb city near him (which I wanted ), and built another one N of that (corn/dye) which I was just walking my settler to! I think I might have to send the lads round to have a word with Peter, sooner rather than later .

However, I find myself somewhat lacking in troops. Since I got the heroic epic built, I've been trying to churn out an army in Heliopolis, but it's going slowly, and I'm not sure how much my economy can take.

Diplomatically, I don't seem to be doing too badly. Should I be avoiding trading with the worst enemies of Brennus, Peter and Willem? I've managed to get my friends to give me gold a few times, and I have a few GPT->resource trades going as well. So far, no one has asked me to go to war, though Brennus has been fighting Julius and Justinian on and off.

 

[PickledDictator]

A real late show to this thread. I just read through everything and all I can say is wow.

I won on Monarch a few months ago by following the Monarchist Cookbook and although I haven't played in the last three months I know have time to tackle Emperor again.

I am really looking for a game which goes into insane detail and description of individual turns. Knowing what to trade, who to, when, and when to balk are huge ordeals for me. It's probably the biggest failure of my game. I just don't tech properly.

Anyways, this has been a great read and I will lurk in earnest.

 

[miked1991]

Yes this map is a little too generous to the human. I haven't even bothered settling my backlands

I've also remembered why Hatty is much better at running an SE than Ramesses. Faster libraries pre-caste makes a big difference. Granted industrious helps with the pyramids and NE but that's about it.

@TMIT: I'm starting to understand why you finish your games in 3-4 hours. I may have to try that queue order at some point.

You don't fancy giving us noobies a bit of a hint as to how you can be so dominant on emperuer? I'm just about able to compete due to the nice map myself, but highly doubt I'd win the game unless I follow feral's game pretty closely.

 

[feralminded]

You don't fancy giving us noobies a bit of a hint as to how you can be so dominant on emperuer? I'm just about able to compete due to the nice map myself, but highly doubt I'd win the game unless I follow feral's game pretty closely.

You see that gold in Thebe's BFC on his map?

 

[miked1991]

You see that gold in Thebe's BFC on his map?

Lol, someone got lucky. One gold can't mean that much though, else we'd all have run to the gold on the right straight away!

 

[TheMeInTeam]

You don't fancy giving us noobies a bit of a hint as to how you can be so dominant on emperuer? I'm just about able to compete due to the nice map myself, but highly doubt I'd win the game unless I follow feral's game pretty closely.

Well, if you're like shyuhe, you just win on deity so that emperor feels like a cakewalk .

Otherwise, you just have to understand the AI and game mechanics. Whether you're building the pyramids or using cottages + bureaucracy, you have to specialize cities, make sound tech choices, and sound trades. Oh and...keep alive militarily.

 

[feralminded]

Lol, someone got lucky. One gold can't mean that much though, else we'd all have run to the gold on the right straight away!

Well as TMIT pointed out ... he's not an emperor player ... hehe. Try to imagine how challenging Noble or maybe Prince might be for you, that's what Emperor is for him. Regardless the gold, specially early, is HUGE ... means more than you think. But yeah he would have won with half the resources. Ultimately winning or losing isn't our goal here anyways ... its to get people deep enough into an emperor game to learn some things about the mid/end game. We're going over each strategy type in order to help ease people into it somewhat but in the end experience is ultimately going to be the largest contributor. But I don't believe in true trial by fire ... you don't learn anything from burning alive. I believe in just keeping things toasty and giving just enough help to keep you from turning to ash.

 

[shyuhe]

Actually I didn't get that gold for most of my save. I just checked the log and it popped in 125 BC. So no, the gold isn't why I got my research to where it is. The key (if you're running an SE) is to build lots of farms and cottage only your capital. I actually loaned off my corn from the capital for most of the game to my second city for GS farming. I just made sure I never whipped Thebes unless the corn was available, as otherwise it re-grows too slowly. And you want to run caste system as much as possible under an SE. Otherwise you won't be able to run many scientists (and later merchants) without the appropriate buildings.

It may sound criminal but you don't need many workers in an SE. Asides from cottaging your capital (a civil service beeline helps immensely), you'll be running lots of specialists so you don't need to build as many improvements. Most of my cities went granary -- library, then start running scientists.

I'm also not sure why more people didn't settle the gold city to the SE sooner. The addition to the cap is big, and you can leave the city working the gold mine to pay for itself.

In terms of tech, after you get the basic worker stuff, you want writing. GL is nice if you have the trees to chop it out. Otherwise I'd go towards currency. You can sell lots of cheap techs to fuel deficit research. CoL is good but I think currency is more powerful. Here's my tech order:

AH -- mining -- BW -- pottery -- masonry -- writing -- aesthetics -- alpha (trade), myst (trade), fishing (trade) -- math -- poly (trade), IW (trade), sailing (trade), monotheism (trade?) -- lit -- priesthood -- currency -- monarchy -- CoL -- hunting -- CS -- meditation -- philo (bulb) -- archery -- paper.

I traded for some crappy techs in the beginning because I figured the AI wouldn't keep up anyways given the start area.

 

[feralminded]

Yeah I missed the boat on making Memphis into the GS farm ... it was possible but required foresight ... unfortunately it was the only other city that could do it one our continent ... as TMIT rightfully pointed out this wasn't the best SE map ... but its working out fine. I'm mostly powering my way via Pacifism/Caste which is really only possible due to SPI.

 

[Ai Shizuka]

Played to 415 AD by accident:

Spoiler :

Too many things to do at the same time. I'm low on workers and the NE peninsula is still unsettled. Still need to figure a good prod city.

techs: aesthetics - poly - literature - IW, fishing and priesthood (Will) - CoL - alpha (Bren) - hunting (begged from Will, thanks Will) - math, monarchy and archery (Peter) - mono, sailing and meditation (Pacal) - CS - paper - researching edu


650 - Everyone and his dog convert to Judaism, so I adopt it as well. Now Pacal, Peter, Will and Brennus are jewish. Justinian's the lone buddhist.

625 - Finally I meet JC, buddhist as well.

550 - Barb city captured. Bren and Justi was already sneaking some archers around:



And first Aesthetics trade:



410 - Got a Great Eng at 33% odds and rush this in Elephantine, to fight Brennus' culture:



380 - More tech trading with Aesthetics:



245 - Brenn drops to cautious for a couple turns and enters wheoohrn immediately. He has a mixed stack in Gergovia: a couple chariots, archers, 2 gallics, an axe. I fear he's planning to attack me, so I beg hunting (for spears) from Will and whip a couple units to defend.

JC would attack Brennus but sadly I don't have enough techs to bribe him.

140 - Done with some chopping:



65 - A couple backfilling trades:





20 - JC declares war vs Justi.

5 - First GS builds academy in Thebes, 78 bpt now.

55 AD - Brennus DoW Justi. I wasn't his target, after all.

175 - JC and Justi sign peace.

250 - Alexandria, or Peter will settle everywhere between my cities. The planned site wasn't very good either, but it claimed more resources:



295 - GS bulbs philo.

355 - JC DoW Justi again.

370 - And Pi-Ramesses founded. Now this is some real garbage, but that gap is still open:




Tech board. I can backfill everything with a couple trades:



Diplo:



And the capital. GS odds are very good:



Southern front. I almost decided to make a detour to Music and the free artist to bomb Heliopolis. Borders aren't rock-solid at this point and that city is fighting 3 different cultures. Both Heliopolis and Parthian will be cottage-spammed:



Core:



And NE peninsula. I really need to hurry my lazy ass before somebody beats me there:




About our goals.
- Effective trading: done, I think. Will backfill completely at the start of the next round. Still have to think about my options.

- Effective diplo: I don't know. Diplo is a bit tricky on this map. Only two AIs don't declare at pleased: Brennus and Justi. Brennus is weak and probably the first target, Justi is JC's punching ball. Everyone else is jewish, so there isn't much hate going on. I'll try to bribe some wars in the near future.

- GLib: done.

- Build HE: still to do. I don't have a real production city at this point and don't want to waste it in some mediocre city. 90% of my games I have a HE/IW city, able to pump industrial/modern units in 1-2 turns. Standard production and whipping is enough for now.

- REX: southern front is somewhat completed. Peter beat me to the eastern city, but I've claimed a nice chunk of cottageable land. NE peninsula is still open. Feralminded did a MUCH better job here.

- Lib race: done. Philo bulbed, academy built and another scientist (hopefully) is coming very soon to bulb edu. CS/Pacifism up and running. 4+2 scientists at this point in Thebes. I still have to build the Nat Epic, but can't decide right now. I don't want to further pollute my GP-pool in Thebes, so I think I'll build it in Memphis to make it a post-lib GM farm.

- Grow the capital: still working on it. Happy cap is 10 now, with wine, jumbos and gold still to connect.

- Spread religion: done. Actually, Brennus did it for me. Only Pi-Ramesses is missing Judaism at this point.

 

[dorkynorky]

400 AD

Spoiler :

State of the world: Everyone is Jewish (founded by Bren) except Pacal (Buddhist) and Peter (Hindu). Currently at war with Pacal, bribed Peter in to help me and build some good will until I'm ready to attack him. Bren came in on his own. Should survive war without much effort.

Pros: Got GL, have access to numerous happy, health resources (but haven't done a good job of connecting them up). Have plenty of land to work with.

Cons: Polluted my GPP pool with the Oracle and GW so my first three GPs were GP, GSpy and GSpy. Haven't been able to bulb anything. No HE (havent gotten the promotions). No NE, thinking about putting it in Memphis and using that as pure GP farm. Haven't built enough workers, have been slow in founding new cities. Power levels are pathetic. City specialization has been poor and haven't made any use of OR/Slavery to whip infrastructure.

Plan: Used one GSpy to infiltrate Willie and will be able to steal 4-8 techs (already took Construction and Currency. Next take MC). Will use second spy to either infiltrate Willie again or maybe Peter to pick up more techs. Depending on how things work diplomatically, first target will be Willie or Peter.

Haven't made good use of SPI trait to change civics and focus on different things. Also tend to run specialists in cities that need to be growing which again shows my SE weakness.

 

[zizzeus]

I'm going to try something different for my second turnset. I'm a little bored with the GS farming and bulbing to liberalism beeline, so I'll go along the bottom of the tech tree instead. I popped a spy so I think I can steal the upper techs, and Willem usually takes that path anyway.

The Egyptians seem like a good civ to run mass amounts of priests, especially with Stonehenge up, and I'll definitely build Angkor Wat. I think I'll only farm two Scientists - one for philo and another for an academy. I'll try for the GLib but won't sweat it if it doesn't come in. I will try for the APalace though, and with the cheap temples and their +2 hammers, cheap forges, Caste and lots of workshops, priests, prophets, etc. I think production will be insane. We'll see where it goes. Should be interesting to compare.

 

[zizzeus]

OK, stopped at 280AD after popping a THIRD great engineer, for discussion. I'd be interested to hear what people think about this save.

Spoiler :

975BC - Judaism spreads in Thebes
925 - Peter converts to Jud. so I follow suit
725 - GE pops in Thebes, save him for parthenon. Also considered settling him or using for metal casting.
650 - Trade Aesthetics to Willem (Alpha), Pacal (IW + Pottery), Peter (Math)
625 - Beg Willem for Archery, successful. I'm not worried about the trading cap in this game since I'll keep Peter around for awhile.
600 - Finally met Julius, he has "enough" on his hands
470 - Pacal demands Alphabet. I cave, since everyone else has it anyway. I also used the GE for Parthenon in my gems/rice/elephant city, Heliopolis. Willem's creative city was stealing my bananas. +10 culture should take care of that
455 - Founded Elephantine near the west copper
440 - JC asks me to switch to Buddhism. I comply, using the next 5 turns to trade with him and Justinian, now that we're buds
425 - Got Mono for math from Just. Can get monarchy if I research a few turns of it
395 - Brennus asks me to cancel deals with Just. Declined. Brennus is a wuss.
380 - Mono to JC for sailing
335 - Back to Judaism before my homies tweak. 2nd Largest civ now.

305 - mono to Willem for med + 30gold
290 - I use the wall slaving trick in a few cities. Build them up until they're almost done (with stone it goes quickly) then slave a pop. You'll get the stone bonus, but it will carry over into the next build
260 - JC dows on Pacal
245 - of course, Pacal asks me to join. I decline, thinking he's going to lose anyway
200 - Against the odds, I get another GE in Thebes. I use him to bulb Metal Casting and the cheap forges
185 - Brennus is looking to expand; d'oh!

Here's his stupid city - not even on a hill! Good luck defending that.

80 - Just. has metal casting, so I trade it to Willem for construction
65 - I gift Peter priesthood to open up monarchy, and trade him metal casting and monarchy for HBR and calendar. Elephants ahoy!
35BC - I was 7 turns from CoL, when Pacal founded it
25AD - Stole literature from Peter. I have enough spy points for one more, then I'll start on Willem.
85 - Built the Hanging Gardens in Thebes. I wanted the GE points, as well as the pop and the health, so it made sense.
100 - Canceled deals with JC for Peter
145 - Willem CoL + HBR for Currency + 110gold. I WANT him to build horse archers, and even knights because I'll be building elephants. He has no ivory.
175 - whipping spree in preparation for a switch to Caste.
205 - Glib built in a FAL. I was about 1/4 finished, but it wasn't crucial for me.
220 - Traded Theology from Pacal for something. I hope he builds the AP since he's Jewish. I won't trade theology around to help that.
Willem is teching too fast, so I bribed Brennus to declare on him. All of Brennus' cities are on hills, and with the Dun and his guerrilla swords, he should live at least.

280 - ANOTHER GEng pops! Now, I have to decide whether to build the AP myself and go religious, save him for Sistine, settle him, or bulb machinery (probably not smart, I can steal this). Any suggestions? I don't usually get this many engineers.


State of the union:




and a fifth city, not very impressive.

The save:
View attachment Corrosion AD-0280.CivBeyondSwordSave

 

[feralminded]

@Ai Shizuka

Spoiler :

Played to 415 AD by accident:

(clipped)

About our goals.
- Effective trading: done, I think. Will backfill completely at the start of the next round. Still have to think about my options.

- Effective diplo: I don't know. Diplo is a bit tricky on this map. Only two AIs don't declare at pleased: Brennus and Justi. Brennus is weak and probably the first target, Justi is JC's punching ball. Everyone else is jewish, so there isn't much hate going on. I'll try to bribe some wars in the near future.

- GLib: done.

- Build HE: still to do. I don't have a real production city at this point and don't want to waste it in some mediocre city. 90% of my games I have a HE/IW city, able to pump industrial/modern units in 1-2 turns. Standard production and whipping is enough for now.

- REX: southern front is somewhat completed. Peter beat me to the eastern city, but I've claimed a nice chunk of cottageable land. NE peninsula is still open. Feralminded did a MUCH better job here.

- Lib race: done. Philo bulbed, academy built and another scientist (hopefully) is coming very soon to bulb edu. CS/Pacifism up and running. 4+2 scientists at this point in Thebes. I still have to build the Nat Epic, but can't decide right now. I don't want to further pollute my GP-pool in Thebes, so I think I'll build it in Memphis to make it a post-lib GM farm.

- Grow the capital: still working on it. Happy cap is 10 now, with wine, jumbos and gold still to connect.

- Spread religion: done. Actually, Brennus did it for me. Only Pi-Ramesses is missing Judaism at this point.

Not a horrible game so far ... I was thinking you would be hurt more by the way they cut into your land but its not looking bad at all. You are well on your way to liberalism which can very likely win this game for you since our AI's are not terribly aggressive. If the AIs were more aggressive I would be more worried in your position (not that it wouldn't be winnable then) but as long as you keep a reasonble front line I think you are ok. I know the AI avoided me like the plague and all I had was maybe half a dozen units behind a wall. They are definitely skiddish this game.

 

[feralminded]

@dorkynorky

Spoiler :

400 AD

State of the world: Everyone is Jewish (founded by Bren) except Pacal (Buddhist) and Peter (Hindu). Currently at war with Pacal, bribed Peter in to help me and build some good will until I'm ready to attack him. Bren came in on his own. Should survive war without much effort.

Pros: Got GL, have access to numerous happy, health resources (but haven't done a good job of connecting them up). Have plenty of land to work with.

Cons: Polluted my GPP pool with the Oracle and GW so my first three GPs were GP, GSpy and GSpy. Haven't been able to bulb anything. No HE (havent gotten the promotions). No NE, thinking about putting it in Memphis and using that as pure GP farm. Haven't built enough workers, have been slow in founding new cities. Power levels are pathetic. City specialization has been poor and haven't made any use of OR/Slavery to whip infrastructure.

Plan: Used one GSpy to infiltrate Willie and will be able to steal 4-8 techs (already took Construction and Currency. Next take MC). Will use second spy to either infiltrate Willie again or maybe Peter to pick up more techs. Depending on how things work diplomatically, first target will be Willie or Peter.

Haven't made good use of SPI trait to change civics and focus on different things. Also tend to run specialists in cities that need to be growing which again shows my SE weakness.

I think your prevailing issue here is you just don't have enough workers. This is a problem that afflicts many players and I fall into the trap myself quite often. This map only amplifies this though since we have so much jungle to work. Otherwise I think you're doing ok. You are right with the pack techwise and have really good land. I would get memphis to grow more (at least let up one scientist and start to grow). You really need to grow your cities now or else your economy will fall behind ... this is where workers come in handy to get you more food and thus more citizens/specialists.

Other than that I would personally bend over backwards to take Pacal's city if you could ... but it may not be practical right now. Also with Peter a different religion I'd try and get everyone to gang up on him and dogpile him for some nice cities.

 

[feralminded]

zizzeus

Spoiler :

975BC - Judaism spreads in Thebes
925 - Peter converts to Jud. so I follow suit
725 - GE pops in Thebes, save him for parthenon. Also considered settling him or using for metal casting.
650 - Trade Aesthetics to Willem (Alpha), Pacal (IW + Pottery), Peter (Math)
625 - Beg Willem for Archery, successful. I'm not worried about the trading cap in this game since I'll keep Peter around for awhile.
600 - Finally met Julius, he has "enough" on his hands
470 - Pacal demands Alphabet. I cave, since everyone else has it anyway. I also used the GE for Parthenon in my gems/rice/elephant city, Heliopolis. Willem's creative city was stealing my bananas. +10 culture should take care of that
455 - Founded Elephantine near the west copper
440 - JC asks me to switch to Buddhism. I comply, using the next 5 turns to trade with him and Justinian, now that we're buds
425 - Got Mono for math from Just. Can get monarchy if I research a few turns of it
395 - Brennus asks me to cancel deals with Just. Declined. Brennus is a wuss.
380 - Mono to JC for sailing
335 - Back to Judaism before my homies tweak. 2nd Largest civ now.
305 - mono to Willem for med + 30gold
290 - I use the wall slaving trick in a few cities. Build them up until they're almost done (with stone it goes quickly) then slave a pop. You'll get the stone bonus, but it will carry over into the next build
260 - JC dows on Pacal
245 - of course, Pacal asks me to join. I decline, thinking he's going to lose anyway
200 - Against the odds, I get another GE in Thebes. I use him to bulb Metal Casting and the cheap forges
185 - Brennus is looking to expand; d'oh!
Here's his stupid city - not even on a hill! Good luck defending that.
80 - Just. has metal casting, so I trade it to Willem for construction
65 - I gift Peter priesthood to open up monarchy, and trade him metal casting and monarchy for HBR and calendar. Elephants ahoy!
35BC - I was 7 turns from CoL, when Pacal founded it
25AD - Stole literature from Peter. I have enough spy points for one more, then I'll start on Willem.
85 - Built the Hanging Gardens in Thebes. I wanted the GE points, as well as the pop and the health, so it made sense.
100 - Canceled deals with JC for Peter
145 - Willem CoL + HBR for Currency + 110gold. I WANT him to build horse archers, and even knights because I'll be building elephants. He has no ivory.
175 - whipping spree in preparation for a switch to Caste.
205 - Glib built in a FAL. I was about 1/4 finished, but it wasn't crucial for me.
220 - Traded Theology from Pacal for something. I hope he builds the AP since he's Jewish. I won't trade theology around to help that.
Willem is teching too fast, so I bribed Brennus to declare on him. All of Brennus' cities are on hills, and with the Dun and his guerrilla swords, he should live at least.
280 - ANOTHER GEng pops! Now, I have to decide whether to build the AP myself and go religious, save him for Sistine, settle him, or bulb machinery (probably not smart, I can steal this). Any suggestions? I don't usually get this many engineers.

Its not usually worth it to build the AP unless you are really pushing for the religious victory ... its easy enough to let someone else build it and just adapt. That said in my game I screwed out of the AP (the buddhists built it) and I have 0 buddhists in my culture. I guess I'm ok with that but since we're SPI its nice having cheap, awesome temples under the AP.

I would probably just save the engineer and get sistene ... its really the only wonder left worth it ... bulbing engineers just always ends up being painfully underwhelming for me compared to GSs ... but its not a bad idea either in truth. Its also worth considering settling since Rep will really make him a nasty part of your SSC and he'll let you focus even more on food and less on .

As with all of the saves I think you're looking good so far. We do have some nice land but I've found it hard to completely settle it. The jungle hurt us I think and even I fell behind on workers.

 

[mc-red]

Decided to keep going with my game.
Ramses Empire at 400 AD

Spoiler :

Ramses diplo, demographics etc at 400 AD

Spoiler :

What to do with this great scientist at 400 ad ?

Spoiler :

Will have another Great person in 15 turns.
Paper will complete in 9. Do I wait and bulb part of education.
Don't want to bulb Paper. Can settle and get about 110 beakers plus 9 hammers before then and
have a settled GS till the end of the game.

It all feels a bit wierd. I feel to stretched and weak compared to how I would be doing on monarch.