Emperor Tutorial Series I - The Pyramids based SE (Monarch/Prince players welcome)

[feralminded]

Ok so next steps? We're looking at a playthrough from 400AD to 1400AD (100 turns). At this point if we're going for liberalism we should really have ourselves with an established lead or a plan to catch up fast because the AI will probably start heading that way soon (Willem will). In the next 1000 years for an SE (and really any game), the following seem appropriate.

1. Win the liberalism race with the goal of at least Nationalism, but if possible more. If it looks like nationalism is the likely prize we need to prepare for an invasion with spies (those of you with GWall Great Spies are looking good).
2. If it looks like Cannons then we need to build our supporting troops (knights, pikes, maces, muskets).
3. If it looks like rifles we need to get nationalism for nationhood.
4. We need to finish populating our peninsula. Post liberalism is where the SE loses a lot of steam (because this is where CE takes off). The only way to keep up is through population and conquering. We have nice land, time to use it.
5. Regardless of what happens with Liberalism, conquest is going to be the flavor of the day. We need to pick a target and execute in a successful Renaissance war without weakening our border enough to invite someone's opportunistic attack while we're weakened. This is going to require a combination of brute force and diplomacy. If at all possible we want to initiate a dogpile on our target or at least on A target while we do what we need to. Keeping the world at war while we war keeps everyone's power levels low allowing us to fly under the radar.
6. Long term we either need to build such a massively furious army so as to win in the Renaissance or we need to get to Biology fast once we take what we want.

Does that all sound reasonable?

 

[feralminded]

@MC-Red

If you are 100% sure you are getting a GS then bulb it ... otherwise wait and bulb education with this guy and even if you get a second one you can use him to bulb liberalism (if you don't have machinery). I think you only have one city that's badly exposed but it can be defended through both diplomacy and brute force. I'd say see how liberalism shakes out and go from there ... just don't let your guard down. Brennus may be all over you but he's also about the friendliest AI on this map so he's easily manipulated.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

Ok so next steps? We're looking at a playthrough from 400AD to 1400AD (100 turns). At this point if we're going for liberalism we should really have ourselves with an established lead or a plan to catch up fast because the AI will probably start heading that way soon (Willem will). In the next 1000 years for an SE (and really any game), the following seem appropriate.

1. Win the liberalism race with the goal of at least Nationalism, but if possible more. If it looks like nationalism is the likely prize we need to prepare for an invasion with spies (those of you with GWall Great Spies are looking good).
2. If it looks like Cannons then we need to build our supporting troops (knights, pikes, maces, muskets).
3. If it looks like rifles we need to get nationalism for nationhood.
4. We need to finish populating our peninsula. Post liberalism is where the SE loses a lot of steam (because this is where CE takes off). The only way to keep up is through population and conquering. We have nice land, time to use it.
5. Regardless of what happens with Liberalism, conquest is going to be the flavor of the day. We need to pick a target and execute in a successful Renaissance war without weakening our border enough to invite someone's opportunistic attack while we're weakened. This is going to require a combination of brute force and diplomacy. If at all possible we want to initiate a dogpile on our target or at least on A target while we do what we need to. Keeping the world at war while we war keeps everyone's power levels low allowing us to fly under the radar.
6. Long term we either need to build such a massively furious army so as to win in the Renaissance or we need to get to Biology fast once we take what we want.

Does that all sound reasonable?

No mention of cuirassers/cavalry?

 

[feralminded]

No mention of cuirassers/cavalry?

Well that's the Nationalism prize ... I should have been more clear. I am kind of gunning for Rifles myself but I think any of the players who settled a GSpy should strongly consider Cuiries since they will have the EPs to support it.

 

[gspchamp999]

Took me a few tries but my civ is looking good right now.
Cant find the window that shows my relations but Willem is pleased, justin is friendly, peter is pleased, pacal is friendly, JC is annoyed, and Brennus is cautious.

Spoiler :

Don't know where to head after I bulb education next turn and research Lib. Do I maintain scientists in thebes or do I change to different specialists.

As for the other cities, which should start cranking out Jumbos and which should I begin to use to make my economy better?

 

[mc-red]

@MC-Red

If you are 100% sure you are getting a GS then bulb it ... otherwise wait and bulb education with this guy and even if you get a second one you can use him to bulb liberalism (if you don't have machinery). I think you only have one city that's badly exposed but it can be defended through both diplomacy and brute force. I'd say see how liberalism shakes out and go from there ... just don't let your guard down. Brennus may be all over you but he's also about the friendliest AI on this map so he's easily manipulated.

Spoiler :

Thanks Feral I held on as suggested turned out to be the key move. Next GP was an artist which culture bombed my under pressure by Willem city. Won lib race circa 900 AD. Bribed Peter with Education to attack Willem and stole city from under Peter's nose when he had reduced its defenses. Now my research has crashed but Peter is at war with JC and Willem and friendly with me and Brennus is friendly and warring JC. Just need to stabilize economy (with CE) and get a big rifle army and back stab the backstabber.

 

[gspchamp999]

Oh and my save file if anyone wants to check it out.

 

[feralminded]

Let's continue from 400AD until 1400AD

We will see how people did and decide next steps on Thursday.

The immediate goals of our Emperor SE should be.

1. Win the liberalism race with the goal of at least Nationalism for Cuirassers, but if possible more. If it looks like nationalism is the likely prize we need to prepare for an invasion with spies (those of you with GWall Great Spies are looking good).
2. If it looks like Cannons then we need to build our supporting troops (knights, pikes, maces, muskets).
3. If it looks like rifles we need to get nationalism for nationhood/drafting.
4. We need to finish populating our peninsula. Post liberalism is where the SE loses a lot of steam (because this is where CE takes off). The only way to keep up is through population and conquering. We have nice land, time to use it. Conquering nicely cottaged AI cities won't hurt either. That said do not be shy about pillaging those cottages if given the chance ... you can support an economy with Cuirassers pillaging.
5. Regardless of what happens with Liberalism, conquest is going to be the flavor of the day. We need to pick a target and execute in a successful Renaissance war without weakening our border enough to invite someone's opportunistic attack while we're weakened. This is going to require a combination of brute force and diplomacy. If at all possible we want to initiate a dogpile on our target or at least on A target while we do what we need to. Keeping the world at war while we war keeps everyone's power levels low allowing us to fly under the radar.
6. Long term we either need to build such a massively furious army so as to win in the Renaissance or we need to get to Biology fast once we take what we want.
7. We are going to be way behind the tech curve of our AI opponents for a while so trade for large sums of to deficit your research to try and keep up. If we pull this off right the AI won't fully catch up/pass us until we've conquered enough of the world to simply make it not matter.

 

[gspchamp999]

Spoiler :

Well I haven't played many emperor games past turn 200, it is even obvious to me that I did not do as much in this 100 turns as I should of.

Willem went free religion and started out cautious towards me but Brennus declared war on both of us bringing us closer.

I took one of Brennus's cities and then gave him a peace treaty so I could build more units. Have been bombarding his capital, slowly, and just completed steel so cannons are on the way and I have a war party sitting in heliopolis as soon as the cannons arrive.

Also got the herioic epic in byblos.

And I hit the point I usually hit where I dont know what do with my workers so I just send them to any block that hasnt been upgraded and do whatever, hence all the cleared jungles and random farms/workshops.














View attachment Corrosion AD-1400.CivBeyondSwordSave

 

[feralminded]

Alright played through turns 200-300 or 400AD to 1400AD.

Spoiler :

Well we started with a fairly decent position. Way out in front of liberalism with plenty of land we just needed to get our economy on its feet and prepare to leverage the liberalism prize. My goal of liberalism (as always) was rifling but I was prepared to make the decision after I got gunpowder (when I have to decide Chemistry or Printing press). First things first was the economy which meant courthouses, Currency, growth, and workers to help develop everything. Also I really needed to prioritize oxford once I unlocked education.

Tech from 400AD->1000AD:

For the growth period I teched Currency->Education (had 70% bulbed)->Compass (trade and so I can bulb liberalism). At this point I traded paper and compass around for gold, feudalism, and machinery (will need machinery for printing press and feudalism for Guilds->Banking). I managed a moderate deficit research slider for MOST of this entire segment by whoring out techs for gold. At this point I start on Gunpowder ... will have decide Cannons or Rifles soon. After that JC teched philosophy so I decided it was time to start trading around. I picked up engineering, drama, theo and a bunch more gold. I finish up gunpowder and notice I can probably trade for Banking from some of the AIs and decide to shoot for Rifles. I bulb most of Printing Press and start on it. I trade for Banking, drop a GE into Replaceable parts and by 1000AD am 5 turns from it complete.

Growth from 400AD->1000AD
Most of my growth was vertical (really focused on Memphis and Thebes but should have also focused on Elephantine) ... but I did manage to take the fish/copper city as well as the Barb city on the peninsula. As soon as education was done I really prioritized my universities and managed to get 4 of them down by 1000AD. I also DoWed on Peter and used my catapults and War Elephants to take Bulgar which was SE of me (former barb city). It was really just a "waste the WE's a couple turns before Peter get's Pikes" kind of a move. He was also under attack by Brennus and JC at the time so it was a freebie. I knew I couldn't get any further with what I had but I also knew he couldn't do much about it. Free city with a lot of Egyptian culture already ... score. Besides that I mostly built a lot of workers (though still not enough ... never enough) and improved like mad. I started building lots and lots of watermills anticipating a future push with State Property but kind of screwed up my potential stock market city (the dye city) with too many but its ok ... if it comes to it I can use the gems city as a stock market city.

Anyhow here's the overview at 1000AD. 5 turns from Replaceable parts/Rifling. I have no idea how many Great People I bulbed to get there but it was a pretty furious race. Thanks to SPI + Parthenon my techrate was much closer to a Phi-SE's than a typical IND-SE's but that's ok ... this is one of the benefits of Ramesses (this is exactly the recipe for how I beat Immortal).

Beyond 1000AD things got exciting fast.

Unfortunately (although fortunately for the world) it wouldn't be until 1120AD that I actually get someone to trade me Nationalism. Until then I ran Police State/Slavery/Vassalage/Theocracy and whipped out a very quick and highly promoted army of Rifles. After that I went to Nationhood, Caste, Rep to get my tech rate back on track (I was heading up chemistry to steel). 1120 is also the year I whipped out my final university (before the civic switch) and Thebes started on Oxford (that a GE finished for me in 1150). Finally 1120 is also the year that I started the draft and DoWed on Peter with my previously whipped out army of super rifles. Next turn Brennus DoW's on me (wonder how much that cost Peter?) which is really a gift to me because he's so backwards my rifles are fighting HA's and Axes. I end up taking those two cities from Brennus and in 1250AD officially make him my (worthless) slave.

I end up making friends with Pacal and he supplies me with techs and gold to support my crazy deficit beeline to Steel (conquest gold isn't hurting either). Economics helps a ton because even running 0% sliders I am -30 as I continue to conquer. Also JC decided to Dogpile on Peter and takes about the nicest city Peter has. I end up paying off JC to make peace with Peter so that I alone can manage to take all of his cities. Around 1300 I get Steel and this only makes it faster with Peter. By 1400AD he is 1 turn from annihilation ... really kind of pissed I couldn't have him off the map by then but oh well.

Here's the overviews

As you can see my tech lead has basically dissolved but I doubt it matters. Biology will help (its great trade bait) and if I can manage to get Communism I'll have everything I need. Willem is next ... even with tech parity he won't stop my SoD and will probably just attack Brennus like an idiot anyhow. After Willem Pacal should do it. This game is more or less in mop up mode now. Its still a bit tricky because I need to keep some people happy and basically am attacking my friends but its not a big deal as soon as I take that russian city because suddenly all those cities go 100% egyptian. At that point if world crisis happens I could go PS/Nationhood/Slavery and whip/draft out like 20 rifles/cannons/calvary a turn. Willem will likely be looking at Infantry soon but even still enough cannons can smash anything.

And here's the play by play. I couldn't submit everything and got a bit lax at points but it should mostly be there.

Spoiler :

415AD - Currency lands, start on Education. A bunch of forges land, my goal for this section of OR/Slavery is to get forges and courthouses up everywhere I can to right my economy and enable me to finish the REXX. Heliopolis and Alexandria start on their Courthouses. Also notice unimproved bananas nearly Alexandria, send worker there.
430AD - Alexandria whips out Courthouse, Market next. Will not whip Memphis or Thebes unless truly necessary ... need them to GROW.
445AD - Heliopolis whips out courthouse, resumes catapult.
475AD - Helopolis finishes Catapults, starts on War Elephant. Memphis finishes Forge, starts on worker.
505AD - Giza whips forge, Elephantine whips forge, Alexandria whips market. Go back to Pacifism/CS. Thebes cues up a settler and works 5 scientists. Memphis works 1 scientist and cues up another worker after current one.
520AD - Alexandria starts work on a jewish temple and workers start working on dye ... finally some commerce resources on the way.
580AD - Finish Education, start on compass (so our next GS can bulb lib). Memphis finishes worker, starts on another. Have units heading to peninsula to take barb city.
595AD - Heliopolis finishes Catapult, ques up Elephant then university. Also queue up universities in Thebes after settler and memphis after worker. Queue up worker in elephantine after catapult. Really need to GROW.
610AD - GS born, will bulb liberalism as soon as compass finishes (4 turns).
625AD - Trade CoL to brennus for 140 to fund some defecit research.
655AD - Finish Compass, bulb liberalism (90% complete). Trade frenzy: Feud + 120g from justin for paper + compass. Machinery + 40g + map from peter for Paper+compass. Will wait a turn to trade with willem to try and get Engineering out of him. JC also declares on Peter, good for me.
670AD - Bylbos founded at Fish/Copper spot. Two war elephants one turn from taking barb city. Finish WE in Heliopolis, start on WE. Memphis, Thebes, Alexandria working on Unis, Elephantine will join them soon. Pi-Ramsses will be #5 and barb city #6 (has a lot of forests). Willem finishes compass on his own and I won't give him phi+paper for engineering.
700AD - Peter takes a russian city ... very good for me ... I will probably take a Russian city or two here once I finish off barb city. My war elephants take barb city, get 2 workers out of the deal. In another couple of turns I will be able to summon a SoD of about 8 elephants and 4 catapults.
730AD - Buddhist AP .
775AD - JC has figured out philosophy ... guess I will settle for a chemistry lib or steel. Trade Education to Pacal for Optics + Engineering.
790AD - Trade JC optics for 490
835AD - Optics to Willem for 220 and drama. Optics to Justin for Theo and 50 . Massing troops for russian invasion before he gets pikes.
850AD - Finish Gunpowder, start printing press.
860AD - Bulb Printing press (75%) done. Can get Banking from peter ... rifles looking possible.
880AD - Trade philosophy to Justin for Music + 255 . Funding serious deficit research now.
890AD - DOW on Peter. Send in 1 Mace, 1 X-bow, 5 WEs, 4 catapults, 1 Woods III warrior.
900AD - Bulgar is mine. Lose Mace and 4 Catapults.
910AD - Finish printing press, need pacal to finish banking before I can work on replaceable parts. 3 turns, 2 will go into lib, 1 into chemistry.
950AD - Pacal won't trade banking, gonna have to get it from peter after peace. Might have to lib replaceable parts. Thebes spawns a GE who will help with Replaceable parts.
960AD - Get banking and 120 from willem for gunpowder. Starting on replaceable parts ... 8 turns after bulbing the GE!
970AD - Trade JC banking for 400 something
1040AD - Finish Replaceable parts, 1 turn from rifling. Still need to secure nationalism though for nationhood and then end the world.
1050AD - Land rifling. Peter or Pacal will probably trade it in 6-7 turns but I don't want to wait. Trade banking to Justin for Theo + 155 . Go PS/Vassalage/slavery/Theocracy to whip out rifles NOW. Pi-Ramesses whips out its University, only 2 to go and chops/whips on the way will help. Will get a rifleman or two from Alexandria and Pi-Ramesses while Heliopolis and Elephantine go into full on Rifle production. By the time nationhood comes around I should be ready for an initial push into Peter's lovely lands.
1100AD - Giza whips out University, starts on Bank ... 5/6.
1120AD - Bite the bullet and trade Education + 555 to Jusin for Nationalism. Still have monopoly on lib and printing press. Really tempted to trade for economics though. Whip 6th university in Calib. Switch to Rep/Nationhood/Caste/Theo. Draft 3 rifles. DoW on Peter.
1130AD - Brennus DoWs on me. He's so backwards I'm not sure I should care. He's "threatening with 2 HAs and a catapult". Looks like I get to expand south AND Southeast. Begin Oxford in Thebes.
1140AD - Take Yaroslavl. Kill a bunch of Peter's and Brennus' units. Pop a GG (moving him to join my Woods III warrior for super medic).
1150AD - GE is born ... builds me Oxford. Continue the war, make a super medic (still needs some XP though). Slaughter Celts and Russians mercilessly.
1160AD - Trade around printing press (not happy about this but JC researched it). Got over 1000 in trades and Economics.
1170AD - Switch to Free Religion and Economics. Drafting will now be 1XP units ... which is still fine.
1180AD - Trade Economics to JC for 380 . Reduce Camoludunum to 1 defender with stack of 5 rifles.
1190AD - Begin seige of Vladivostok. Take out about 10 units, 3 remaining for next turn's mop up. Take Camoludunum ... one more Celtic city to take before making them sign a peace treaty. Will have this half of the map nicely cut off. Celts will already Capitulate but I want that last city first.
1200AD - Finish Chemisty, hello Steel. Take Vladivostok. Next stop Moscow. JC has a massive stack headed for Peter and I want my prize first.
1230AD - JC takes super gold city south of Elephantine. March SoD towards Moscow.
1240AD - Take Verlaimon from the Celts. Have Right side of map completely cut off now.
1255AD - SoD arrives at Moscow. Russians now have Curiassers but it won't matter. Going to take Moscow and get take a peace while building cannons.
1275AD - SoD reduces Moscow to 1 defender, 2nd SoD outside SW Russian coast city. Not feelign the peace thing so much ... Steel done in 3 turns.
1280AD - Take Moscow, Take Duronovarnia (sp?), Found Akhetan. Russian won't Cap yet now will he give me Military Tradition so he will continue to die.
1290AD - Trade around liberalism for some gold and pick up military tradition. Trebs become cannons.
1320AD - SoD arrives at new Russian capital. 2nd SoD is 1 turn from taking another russian city. Expecting a Cap any time here and I could use it ... economy hurting bad.
1325AD - Take St. Petersburg. Might be able to completely wipe russians by 1400AD.
1345AD - Take Illinois. Russia still won't cap. Stubborn bastards.
1370AD - Take Yakeiterinburg (sp). Russia is dwindling down. Other AI's are catching up techrate-wise.
1375AD - Take Nobgorod. Russia has 2 cities.
1385AD - Take Yakuskt. Russia will cap now but has only 1 city left and I'm greedy.
1400AD - 40% of land controlled. 1 Turn from finishing Russians which will alleviate A LOT of happiness issues.

 

[shyuhe]

@feralminded: Why did you tech steam power before biology if you're running (what looks like) a pure SE??? More food = more specialists (and merchants).

 

[zizzeus]

Well, my game isn't going as well as I'd hoped. I think I'll win it, but my position isn't as strong as some other players. This is my first online game, and I think I lost some focus over the week - of course I played some other games too! Enough of the excuses ...

Spoiler :

280 Settled the GE, whipped a few granaries then courthouses, ran Caste and Scientists for a few turns before whipping again 5 turns before I got philosophy.

550 Got Philosophy finally (though I was still first) and traded it around the horn for Fued, CS, Drama, Compass, Machinery, and 450 gold. I think I will go liberalism now and use the draft to take out Willem, then Peter. Maybe hit Brennus beforehand if my army ever gets to a decent size, but he’s so backwards. Switched back to Caste, Bureaucracy and Pacifism, and ran 5 scientists in Thebes.

600 JC declares on Pacal, and he brings Peter and me into it. Should get some nice modifiers from both guys.

625 Willem demands Ivory. I have a monopoly on that, and he has tons of mounted troops which I plan to keep at bay with elephants. We’re at Cautious and I usually give these gifts but I decline, which causes him to declare war. I really didn’t see that coming! I am not ready for this, so I switch back to slavery and theocracy and whip some longbows. A great scientist pops same turn; academy in Thebes. I’m beating Peter to paper.

685 I spank Willem’s lame invasion force, and a GG pops. Not ready to conquer yet, so I settle him in Thebes for 2 promo units in peacetime, plus the 3 beakers. Willem was 4 turns to theology, and everyone else has it, so I gift it to him for peace. I didn’t lose any units, but he had a macemen near Heliopolis (the city he wanted for peace!) and I didn’t have any xbows built yet.

700 Justinian demands CS. He’s the only one without it, and he has no wars so I give in. I look, and he’s in WHEOOH. I suspect I bought myself some turns of peace. He also builds the AP this turn, which sucks for me since he’s Buddhist and I’m Jewish, but I have Buddhism in one city so I will now spread it and build cheap temples.

715 I trade Paper to Pacal and Peter, who have only 1 and 2 turns left on it, for some gold and world maps. I now have everyone’s territory visible.


745 Whipped some longbows for defense, a Buddhist temple to build the missionaries faster in Memphis, and switched back to pacifism and caste. My power blows.


760 micro some specialists. Peter has an SoD in his border city. What’s up, Peter? I’ll stock up in Memphis. Two each of longbows, elephants, xbows and cats should be OK.


790 Peter and Pacal both at Friendly now, thanks to proxy war with JC. Neither will give me gold though. I’ve got a nice block set up, just need to spread the Buddhism for some production now.

930 Pacal asks me to go to war with Brennus. I accept, although I don’t think I’ll do much. I sell some resources, and a Prophet pops in Thebes. Boo. I’ll settle him anyway. I need the gold now more than anything.

1000 Finished Education, but Willem is going to beat me to liberalism. I didn’t use any scientists to bulb, which is why he won, although I have lots of priests now so my production is good. I traded Ed around for engineering, guilds, music, and 1800 gold. I’m now set for upgrading in case I don’t get a merchant. I plan to draft like crazy and run over Willem.

1050 Great Scientist pops, bulbed part of printing press. My tech rate sucks so I need to do this. Brennus vassalizes to Willem sometime around now.

1175 Great Scientist. Settled, nothing good to bulb. I’m going to run merchants now. Peter takes Free Religion, dropping our status to pleased. I pay him a bunch of tech to go to war with Justinian, who is in WHEOOH and it’s probably me.

1300 Great Artist in Heliopolis, from the Parthenon. I start a golden age. This might get me through RP.

1305 Justinian demands 800 gold. I refuse – I need it to upgrade muskets. This war is going to be spies, trebs, and rifles.

1315 7 turns left in Golden Age, I revolt to Nationhood and Theocracy, saving myself about 30 gpt. I work mostly production and specialists during the GA to take advantage of the bonuses. I will work food afterwards to prepare for the drafting spree. The culture bar will be set quite high (a huge bonus for the specialist economy) but my tech will virtually stop and I need to remember to build coliseums as well.

1330 55% odds for a merchant, but I pop another Engineer! Taj has been taken; there are only 3 turns left on RP so I save him for Rifling. I can’t remember if he can bulb that or not. If not, maybe Steel.

1340 Revolt to OR to build coliseums. I fill in roads around my empire.

1350 JC and Justinian DoW on Brennus, who has since split from Willem. I think I may sharpen my troops on his nearby city. Maybe he’ll even vassal to me. Willem is in WHEOOH. I’ll leave the catapults in Heliopolis.

1360 I DoW Brennus. Peter’s going to do it if I don’t. I risk a dogpile from Willem, but if it happens at least it saves me from incurring a penalty declaring on him. Rifling in 16 turns, Merchant (hopefully) in 14.

1370 I take Gergovia, losing 3 trebs. It was on a hill, so it should be OK to defend.

1400 I decide to push on to the capital. If I can take it, he may vassal to me. If not, I’ll probably just gift it back or leave it as bait for Willem. Here are my top 5 cities and the tech situation. I’m behind a lot, but nobody is within two techs of rifling. Still, 1400 is really late for rifling. I think I got caught up in the wonder fun at the beginning, and didn’t expand quickly enough. As others have said, some cottages would probably have made sense by now but I wanted to try to do it without any.

Tech situation








The save:
View attachment Corrosion AD-1400.CivBeyondSwordSave

 

[zizzeus]

Just couldn't resist playing a few more turns. Here's how my draft turned out:

Spoiler :

Brennus capitulated. His capital should make a nice military factory, if it can stay out of culture trouble.



The army so far: probably another 10 rifles en route.



The "power" of drafting, for those who don't believe in it yet.

 

[feralminded]

@feralminded: Why did you tech steam power before biology if you're running (what looks like) a pure SE??? More food = more specialists (and merchants).

I honestly have no idea ... I think I wanted the worker bonus since I felt like I was quickly falling behind in worker turns but I have no good answer. Biology was obviously the better choice ... I suspect I started to lose focus when I went into Rifle->Draft->win mode.

 

[feralminded]

@feralminded: Why did you tech steam power before biology if you're running (what looks like) a pure SE??? More food = more specialists (and merchants).

I honestly have no idea ... I think I wanted the worker bonus since I felt like I was quickly falling behind in worker turns but I have no good answer. Biology was obviously the better choice.

 

[ajil]

I have been playing monarch for a while, but just won a game on emperor with the SE. Thanks to Feralminded for this thread and the conquering emperor thread. I do have a couple of questions, as I have always used the CE in the past. (and almost always went oracle for code of laws, which I am trying to get away from)

When/where do you start to build cottages, if at all? I always built as many as I could afford after food bonuses and mines, but obviously things change when it is an SE.

How much of the time do you run CS + pacifism? It seems like the upkeep from all my units kills me, and also I seem to always need the bonus from OR. Perhaps I am building extra buildings or too lax with the whip.

When whipping, I almost never whip when the city is recovering from the last one, and don't really like to whip citizens who are working decent tiles, but I am a bit unsure of my strategy.

My first few cities are fairly specialized (science,military,gp farm, money) but other cities I find myself unsure as to what to do after monument/granary/forge/courthouse.

And finally, I see all these great posts where people know an AI like the back of their hand, is there a thread or something I can printout with the AI's attitudes? (Like who will declare at pleased, who founds religions, who is a backstabber, awesome techer yada yada) I think I know the crazy military guys from harsh experiences in the past. Thanks to anyone who bothers to respond.

 

[Phil725]

And finally, I see all these great posts where people know an AI like the back of their hand, is there a thread or something I can printout with the AI's attitudes? (Like who will declare at pleased, who founds religions, who is a backstabber, awesome techer yada yada) I think I know the crazy military guys from harsh experiences in the past. Thanks to anyone who bothers to respond.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=6570

I think this is what your looking for. The charts give you all of the numerical information you could want. Identifying the extremes is easy enough, Shaka is a warmonger, Musa is a tech whore, Ramses is a wonder spammer. But the chart helps a lot with the in between leaders and the more subtle information.

Of course, the best way to learn the leaders is to just play a lot of games, but having a reference sheet always helps.

 

[mc-red]

Great thread Feral. I followed your instructions closely and have had an interesting time playing both SE and Emp. for first time.
Fortune favours the brave and I ended up winning in 1724 AD ( a bit of a fluke) which is my first pre 1900 AD or so win I believe.
I am completely snowed but hopefully can do a quick write up later.

 

[feralminded]

I have been playing monarch for a while, but just won a game on emperor with the SE. Thanks to Feralminded for this thread and the conquering emperor thread. I do have a couple of questions, as I have always used the CE in the past. (and almost always went oracle for code of laws, which I am trying to get away from)

Yeah I find Stonehenge, Oracle, and Creative to be crutches (SPI to a certain extent as well) that a lot of early players tend to cling to (I started out clinging to all four). This game I advocated Stonehenge but only because we were IND and only if we weren't rushing ... but hopefully in the next game we won't take on any of the above. Not that the Oracle, or StoneHenge, or Creative are bad ... they are just crutch-inducing and when learning Emperor its important to shed crutches and focus on the task at hand. We were also SPI this game but I was hoping to try and show people how it can be effective abused as opposed to simply used to lazily switch civics. Perhaps I was trying too hard ... next game will not be SPI, CRE, SH, or Oracle.

When/where do you start to build cottages, if at all? I always built as many as I could afford after food bonuses and mines, but obviously things change when it is an SE.

Well next game will be CE so it will obviously look different. Under SE cottages are a hotly debated topic. I think for this map (which was not particularly SE friendly) it was ok to just about never build a cottage in the early game. However as Shyuhe proved cottaging up your capital to abuse with Bureaucracy is always very powerful ... SE or CE. Unfortunately since we didn't have another solid food city early the choice was cottage capital or science capital. As you can see in my game instead of cottages I ended up running 5-7 scientists which technically couldn't keep up with the cottages directly (each scientist beyond maybe the first 3 took 2 farmed grasslands ... not going to keep up with a Bureaucracy cottage) but due to Parth and NE still fared very well in effective / turn.

Ideally we would cottage our capital and make a scientist city out of any other city that has several food resources but the situation isn't always ideal. of course this isn't "pure" SE which avoids Bureaucracy entirely and pretty much only uses the sliders for Happiness via the Culture slider ... but that's a different debate. I think (ab)using bureaucracy is usually worth it if you have another early food city outside of your capital. This lets you build 'mids and/or SH in the capital without fear of polluting your GS city.

How much of the time do you run CS + pacifism? It seems like the upkeep from all my units kills me, and also I seem to always need the bonus from OR. Perhaps I am building extra buildings or too lax with the whip.

This is heavily situational. I ran Pacifism/CS about 75% of the time since the majority of my research was coming from those 5-7 scientists in Thebes. I think I'd typically run a good 20-25 turns of Pacifism/CS and then 5 turns of OR/Slavery (I also tried to time chops while under OR). The OR/Slavery periods are also when I grew Thebes and Memphis (couldn't work as many scientists so worked more farms). However I should caution people this is really only abusable with SPI. Without SPI you really need to build up that Bureaucracy capital to power your research regardless of CS/Slavery.

When whipping, I almost never whip when the city is recovering from the last one, and don't really like to whip citizens who are working decent tiles, but I am a bit unsure of my strategy.

If the city isn't a research or GP city (in my case any city but Thebes or Memphis) ... whip to the bone. Your happy cap will be way above their heads anyhow since you will have a lot of happy resources to keep your big cities happy so its rarely a big deal. Also smaller cities regrow faster. The only cities you don't want to whip to oblivion are ones you are using to run specialists in and maybe your HE city (which will still tolerate a fair amount of whipping).

My first few cities are fairly specialized (science,military,gp farm, money) but other cities I find myself unsure as to what to do after monument/granary/forge/courthouse.

This is fine. Again this is highly situational but as long as you can get them from being a financial sinkhole its not a big deal from there. I'd say mid-game you want to establish a second unit city so drop a barracks there. You also want to mark off extra research cities (this is very important in SE) so farm the hell out of them and get them a library/university and then put the whip down. Finally everything else is really a judgement call. If you have a city with some resources, build a bank there (you will need 6 for the stock market). Short term you will get some out of it and long term you will be ready when Corporation lands. Since SE's run such low research sliders banks/markets/grocers tend to be better than under traditional CE ... but only in cities with resources (and it won't hurt to drop some cottages in these cities). Cities without those resources likely have only Trade Route and River which isn't usually enough to justify a bank or market or grocer and could dissolve quickly anyhow if you run Merc or warmonger hard.

As for the stock market this is also highly debatable. Personally I go one of two ways. If my capital is a GS farm I usually find a nice city with some resources and decent food and make it run a lot of merchants. If my capital is a Bureaucracy capital I usually just Stock market it. Neither feels as clean as what I do under CE which is build a big city with tons of merchants but SE is a different beast and actually I find relies a lot less on the stock market. I rarely pop out Great Merchants under SE but it doesn't seem to matter. SE benefits MUCH more from State Property than CE (super SP/Caste workshops are insane and the miracle water wheels are amazing) so I rarely play the Corporation game (even though SE also benefits MUCH more from corps as well).

 

[budweiser]

I am out of it. After doing so well to start, I got over zealous and took on Peter before I was really ready.

Thank you for the game, Feralminded. I learned a lot and I look forward to the next one.