Enders Game 1: The Training Game Competition - Team 2

Originally posted by Rubberjello
I get the feeling we are gunning for Republic and could care less about Monarchy, so not a high priority, right?

In a non-variant game, monarchy is useless for any non-religious civilization. The republic benefit dwarfs any negatives. War weariness is generally easy to control, and just turning the luxury slider up to control it will still have you earning more money than in a monarchy if you didn't turn it up. The unit support of monarchy is insignificant compared to the extra commerce of republic.

The only time you might go into monarchy is if you're religious and are in a huge war, and you consider it worth while for the 1-turn anarchy. Likewise, democracy has little advantage over republic: faster workers are nice, but we really should have worker jobs close to under control by then. The corruption reduction is worth about 1% more income. It's not even close to worth the turns in anarchy or the cost to research.

Conclusion: Republic is the only good government.

We have 4 workers hiding in Spice city? SaaM must have just put them there because of some Viking warriors approaching. Will send them off from the war zone temporarily.

Good move! :goodjob:

There is a Viking Galley hanging off of Yakutsk...There are our Swordsmen around so I assume we still think there could be military units on it?

Yeah but having both swords there is probably overkill. One should do.

I send a Spearman from the heartland to help out with defense of Spice City where 2 Viking warriors are approaching and only 1 Reg spear is defending.

Another good move :)

IT - 3/3 Horseman attacks 3/4 Swordsmen in the North, red-lines, and retreats. Another 3/3 Horseman attacks in the north, takes Swordsmen to 2/4, and then retreats. 3/3 Archer attacks. Kills sword :( Another 3/3 Archer attacks and kills another 2/4 Swordsmen :( It seems Ragnor is not going to go quietly.

Not good :(

SaaM: This is why you shouldn't have penetrated so deep with the swords.

350 BC (1) Attack 3/3 Archer outside of Copenhagen with 4/4 Sword and win easily. Attack Hadian (sword vs spear) and win easily but the city auto-razes. We do gain a slave worker though. We capture Oslo with a 5/5 and 3/4 sword vs 2 3/3 spears.

Well, this did turn out better than I expected. Sometimes it is best to pursue attacks with injured units.

330 BC (2) Positioning. Sevastapol starts Library for upcoming cultural battle with China.

Good. We need to start building culture and science.

270 BC (5) We really can't afford to keep this war up much longer. Our infrastructure is in pretty poor shape. Moscow switched to Settler to take over Hadian spot. Swordsman kills spear at Odense, but another defending there.

Yup, we want to strike quickly and finish the war.

You are sending swords down to Odense? That's a big mistake, splitting our attack force! There are minor cities down there, and we need to concentrate on the main target: Trondheim! Those swords you sent down there could easily be the difference between taking Trondheim and getting repelled, and once we do take Trondheim, we will want as many swords as we can get to go after the rest of the Viking core.

250 BC (6) Scale back swordsman production over to Libraries. The war is going to have to be over soon, and the Republic is 3 turns away.

I think this move is for the best. Use up the remainder of our swords on taking as much territory as we can, and then make peace.

IT Archers approach Copenhagen where large stack of sWords are getting ready for the push on Trondheim.

At last. We must attack Trondheim.


170 BC (10) Approaching Trondheim with 8 Swordsmen. We should be able to take it, get Ragnor for everything he's got, and then be at peace when the dawn of our new republic happens.

It would be better if you didn't have the swords in the south, and could have more swords coming for Trondheim, but never mind.

We will want to wait for the full stack of 10 swords to arrive on the scene, and *then* attack.

That's in two turns time. After that, if we still have a substantial force of swords left over, see what else we can get! Going along the road we can reach both Stavenger and Bergen in one turn each. Swordsmen from Oslo can also be directed toward Bergen. We might even have enough oomph to all but eradicate the Vikings.

We want to extort cities for peace if possible, perhaps the southern ones. We also want to starve Trondheim right down to minimize the chance of it flipping back to the Vikings.

Good turn Rubberjello, good recovery from some tough positions to get us going strong. Nice job on our road network.

Good luck to Shaesha!

-Sirp.
 
Originally posted by Sirp



Conclusion: Republic is the only good government.


It would be better if you didn't have the swords in the south, and could have more swords coming for Trondheim, but never mind.

-Sirp.


Hmmm...I know many players over-value Democracy, but I must say I value it slightly higher than you. It has its place and time. If you are going the Peace-nik route for a Space Race or Cultural win, I would recommend it over Repbublic.

(Two Swords to the south.)
My bad. I got too overconfident. For a while there it seemed like our Swords were undefeatable...they were killing everything they attacked with little or no damage. The problem, of course, is the enemy counterattacks! :p

Trondheim should fall with what we have there, unless we have incredibly bad luck with the RNG. I would vote taking it on the second turn with 8 swordsmen, rather than waiting for the 2 lagging swords which are another turn behind, allowing even more reinforcements to get into Trondheim.

I just want to point out to everyone that we picked on THE most powerful Civ in the game (when the war started). Overall we did fairly decently, but the hordes of archers they were pumping out was frightening at times!
 
Preturn - all my cities are still happy... everything looks good...

Turn 1 - 150BC - Moved the settler to our razed city. Moved the 2 swordsmen to Odensa. We lost a swordsman in Trondheim.

IT One of their spearman came down and got one of our swordsmen! Anarchy is over! We are now a republic!

Turn 2 - 130BC - Lose another swordsman. We take Trondheim! Killed an archer between Trondheim and Bergen. We settle
Vladivostok. We attack Odense with our two measley swordsmen. Good decision? No, I know it isn't :) I wanted to see
what would happen!

IT - They came at us in Sverdlovsk, but we were able to hold them off. An archer came at us between Tronheim and Bergen
we went from Veteran to Elite!

Turn 3 - 110BC - <phew> We captured Odense! Those swordsmen need some rest though. Our swordsmen that are still healthy
are headed for Bergen. The rest are takin a break in Trondheim. We're out of floodplains to work so I have started on
hills and forests.

IT - St. Petersburg has produced a library. Switched to Marketplace.

Turn 4 - 90BC - Moscow produced library switched to Marketplace. We took Bergen - real close to furs now.

Turn 5 - 70BC - Moving a couple to Stockholm to see what is going on there.

IT - ooops - Oslo is rioting :( Minsk finished their library - started a harbor.

Turn 6 - 50BC - Did some adjustments to the happy slider - we're at 40% lux until we get peace. Soooo I trade peace for
Stavanger and Molde :) Did some city management - lux 20% science 30% - -8gpt

IT - 'quelled 2 resisters' in Trondheim. We now have 4 clowns and 2 resisters - trying to starve them down.

Turn 7 - 30BC - Nothing really... trying to figure out what's best to do with these workers!

IT - Greeks want to trade world maps for 17gp. Kiev finishes their library - on to the marketplace. Odessa
library -> marketplace.

Turn 8 - 10BC - Nothin but trying to figure out these workers! Oh and we got Trondheim down to 5... I'm workin em now.

IT - nada

Turn 9 - 10AD - Just workin

Turn 10 - 30AD - Not much

Just as an FYI - Molde and Odense are our only cities that aren't connected. I know that the picture makes it hard to tell.
I guess I don't see that as a high priority. We do have one worker down that way.

30AD.JPG


The Save
 
Originally posted by Shaesha
Preturn - all my cities are still happy... everything looks good...

Turn 1 - 150BC - Moved the settler to our razed city. Moved the 2 swordsmen to Odensa. We lost a swordsman in Trondheim.

IT One of their spearman came down and got one of our swordsmen! Anarchy is over! We are now a republic!

And did you manage the luxury slider and all our citizens after forming Republic?

Turn 2 - 130BC - Lose another swordsman. We take Trondheim! Killed an archer between Trondheim and Bergen.

Trondheim for just two swords lost? Excellent!

We settle
Vladivostok. We attack Odense with our two measley swordsmen. Good decision? No, I know it isn't :) I wanted to see
what would happen!

It actually wasn't a bad move. Odense is only a small city, and would likely be poorly defended.

IT - St. Petersburg has produced a library. Switched to Marketplace.

Good, we want libraries and marketplaces in all core cities asap.

Turn 4 - 90BC - Moscow produced library switched to Marketplace. We took Bergen - real close to furs now.

Great. Four native luxuries will serve us very well.

IT - ooops - Oslo is rioting :(

We seem to be getting one riot a turn from you :)

You just have to get that down to 0 riots and you'll be doing great on the happiness front.

Turn 6 - 50BC - Did some adjustments to the happy slider - we're at 40% lux until we get peace. Soooo I trade peace for
Stavanger and Molde :) Did some city management - lux 20% science 30% - -8gpt

Hmm...did you forget to do this happiness management until now, after switching to republic?

IT - 'quelled 2 resisters' in Trondheim. We now have 4 clowns and 2 resisters - trying to starve them down.

Good work: we want to starve them right down to minimize flipping chances. However at the end of the turn they are growing again, we don't want that!


Turn 7 - 30BC - Nothing really... trying to figure out what's best to do with these workers!

We want more workers up toward Scandinavia, to improve it, and road everything up, especially the furs!

Turn 8 - 10BC - Nothin but trying to figure out these workers! Oh and we got Trondheim down to 5... I'm workin em now.

We want to starve them all the way down to 1 to make them easy to control!

---

A good turn overall :goodjob:

We're doing well here, and we have enough swordsmen to go after another target of our choosing whenever we want.

I've got it!

-Sirp.
 
IT 30AD: We have fallen behind technologically, the Egyptians being ahead Theology and Feudalism, and several civs being ahead Feudalism. This is probably largely from lack of trading by previous leaders. Note that trading frequently is very important on Emperor.

Since Theology has been discovered by Egypt, I cut research to 10%. We will save up some cash and broker our way to the top when the time is right. Plugging a little science into Theology will give us a discount on it later.

I note that Stavanger was acquired with a courthouse. This could make it the perfect city to build our forbidden palace in. Hmm...should we build it there, or should we just build it closer to home at a much faster rate? Stavenger still does have substantial chance of flipping, so I decide reluctantly to go for the FP in nearby Odessa instead. Due in 32 turns. We really should have started on the FP earlier.

We need some workers in the north. Oslo is switched to one, and workers in Trondheim and Bergen are rushed. Stavenger is set to build a library.

We really need a worker factory, and St Petersburg can fill that role. Market -> Granary. Birka spear -> library.

Our only possible trade partner is Scandanavia, and although it would be nice to trade with them, I figure that we may want to attack them again once our peace treaty expires, and so I decline to.

1 50AD: Bergen worker -> library. Trondheim worker -> library. Oslo worker -> worker. Trade around maps for chump change.

2 70AD: St Petersburg: granary -> worker; Yakutsk spear -> library.

3 90AD: Moscow marketplace -> temple.

I build an Embassy in Beijing. They have a palace and a library in there, and it's guarded by three regular spearmen, and a regular archer. They have NO strategic resources hooked up, and are building the Hanging Gardens, due in 22 turns. They have 9 production per turn, and they are not growing. What say we wait for them to complete the wonder, and then take the city? We easily have enough swordsmen to do it.

4 110AD: England demands territory map + 23 gold. We tell her to get lost. Apparently we're not even worth the effort it would take to destroy us. Worker merged into Odessa to speed the FP.

5 130AD: Now Egypt and England have Engineering. Even the Vikings and Chinese have Feudalism. Not many opportunities for a good deal though. We bide our time.

6 150AD: Tblisi library -> marketplace. Egypt completes the Hanging Gardens, and the Chinese and others cascade to Sun Tzu's. Hmm...it'll take a while for them to complete that, so it might end up better to go to war with them sooner.

Time to cut a deal, though it's going to be expensive. 215 gold + 15gpt to England for Theology. Theology + 2gpt to the Celts for Engineering. Theology to China for 28 gold + Feudalism. Theology to Ragnar for Monarchy + 15 gold. And, the behind civs are also the poor civs so we can't get any more back than that.

Several civs have Chivalry, but other than that we are at parity, albeit saddled with 18gpt payments. I set research to printing press, with a scientist in Oslo, going for 40 turn research.

We can now trade with China, but....they don't have anything to sell us.

7 170AD: Moscow temple -> horseman. Let's get those mobile attackers going. One day they will be cossacks!

Bergen switched from library to barracks. We're going to want to upgrade to MDIs to finish Scandinavia off.

8 190AD: Minsk harbor -> aqueduct; Yakutsk library -> aqueduct.

The harbor opens up trade routes with the English, Egyptians, and Celts. We sell Greece Engineering for 30 gold. We sells gems to the English for 7gpt + 15 gold. There is also an export market to either Egypt or England for Dyes or Spices, but we only have one of each hooked up. We do have more spices in our territory though, so I send workers to hook them up. We do not seem to be able to buy luxuries at worthwhile prices currently.

9 210AD: Kiev marketplace -> horseman. We build a colony on furs, hooking them up. Luxuries cut to 10%, giving us a surplus of 64gpt.

I establish an embassy in London. We want to get these embassies going. They have four pikemen and a catapult defending the city, and are building another. They have a barracks, temple, library, cathedral, colosseum, and the great library.

10 230AD: Birka library -> worker. Move workers onto spices ready to road them up.

Oops...I fat-fingered it, and accidentally pressed space, before I saved. Odense (a small former Viking city) goes into disorder, and the next player will have to take it from the beginning of the turn. Sorry about this.

Our forbidden palace is now 11 turns away from completion. There are 6 turns remaining on our peace treaty with the Vikings. I suggest that we rush the barracks in Bergen just before the peace treaty expires, upgrade our swordsmen to MDIs, then declare war, and run them over as quickly as possible. (We may want to come round from the south, since that's the quickest path to Reykjavik, before declaring war).

I suggest NOT upgrading elite swordsmen. Any great leader should probably be used to rush Sun Tzu's.

I suggest building a road up from between Sevastapol and spice addicts to Aarhus. Once we take Aarhus and eliminate the Vikings, we can march straight down the road to Sevastapol and Odessa, and be ready to attack the Chinese.

Be sure to make sure St Petersburg always produces a worker every 2 turns. This will take some annoying management with the silly govenor.

Also make sure we always have a scientist going for Printing Press. We may decide to start our own full strength research (likely on something other than PP) sometime soon. Chivalry is NOT a technology high on our priority list at this stage. Getting Education, and then going straight for Military Tradition and our mighty Cossacks is probably a good plan fairly soon.

Good luck to the next player!

-Sirp.

The Game
 
Hmm...Smurf, are you around? You're up!

Rubberjello
Shaesha
Sirp <-- Just played
Smurf <-- UP NOW
Stuck as a Mac <-- On deck
 
I'm around, will play after SMURF-1(which needs players ^_^)
 
I'm around, will play after SMURF-1(which needs players ^_^)
 
Smurf, can you please give us an update on how your turn is going? It's been several days since I played my turn now.

-Sirp.
 
I'm in mid turn, but I got bored and had to go study. I'll finish it off now.
 
IT: We are researching printing press exactly.. why? Invention or Education both open more venues; Inv gets us longbows, Edu gets us universities. Time to play force concentration; I wake our swords and send em to Bergen. Move our science department to oslo.
1) Celts begin Sistine. 4 turns in peace remaining. Cash rush the rax in Bergen.
2) Bergen completes rax, starts pikeman.
3) Sevastopol libà granary, its gonna be 1st ring on the fp, so we might aswel get it to size 12 asap. We have 41! Workers. I think that something like 45 is a good stopping place. Raggy wants Iron and Horses for chivalry. I, naturally, decline.
4) we should consolidate our workers into a stack of 12 or 24, get a jungle every turn or 2. 1! Turn on peace, upgradeage time.We are down chiv, inv, and edu on lizzy.
5) Declare on raggy waggy.
6) SoD ready for Stockholm next turn. Check diplo, down chiv on everyone, down inv and edu on cleo and lizzy
7) elite 1 wins with 1hp dmg, no gl 2nd wins in the yellow, no gl. We raze it, due to culture pressure from byblos.
8)An archer attacks our 2hp elite sword, he wins with no dmg. A mass exodus of spears from rejavik. Due to there bein 2 spears and 3 juicy promote-bait archers, I attack with some MDI to kill the spears then the sword on the archers. A demonic spear takes out 2 MDI, but the other spear dies quietyly. Our elite kills an archer, gets nothing. An archer kills another mdi. I fortify the troops for some healing (annoying DEFENDERS) I have some horses ready to attack on turn 10.
9) GAH! Moscow riots. Stupid first bout war weariness. Nay, make that the whole damn empire. Lux to 30%.. major w33d, letting em riot, but I though WW kicks in around turn 10) Rejavik should fall next turn, I have around 5 horsies ready. Our horses attack, and we are repelled! We have only taken 2 losses tho, 1 horse and 1 elite sword. All the horses that can fall back.
10) Rejavik should fall next turn, I have around 5 horsies ready. Our horses attack, and we are repelled! We have only taken 2 losses tho, 1 horse and 1 elite sword. All the horses that can fall back.
Gimme the next guys email, the language deleted save isn't uploading.
 
As posted in the previous page of this thread, SaaM's email is:

sir_saam@yahoo.com

Printing Press was picked because it is the "Least" researched tech by the AI in the entire Tech Tree, which means we should get a monopoly on it even with a min. 40 turn research limit, which would allow us to trade around and catch up on tech.
 
Originally posted by Smurf
IT: We are researching printing press exactly.. why?

Because it is the least prioritized technology by the AI of all the techs we have available to research. Since we are paying gold to other civilizations, we can't put lots of cash into science, meaning that we are likely best to either not research and buy techs, or research on a forty turn path. When you research on a forty turn path, it's best to go for a technology you know that the AI prioritizes low, so you have some chance of getting a monopoly on it, or at least getting it before some other civilizations get it, so you can broker it for the other technologies.


Invention or Education both open more venues; Inv gets us longbows,

Longbows would not be helpful to us, since we have two sources of iron, and thus medieval infantry, which dominate longbowmen, so long as you have iron.

Invention would be useful of course, in that it would take us closer to muskets and cossacks, but if we get PP first, we can trade for it, or we can just buy it with cash.


Edu gets us universities. Time to play force concentration; I wake our swords and send em to Bergen. Move our science department to oslo.
1) Celts begin Sistine. 4 turns in peace remaining. Cash rush the rax in Bergen.

Why rush the barracks now? Why not wait until just before you need it, so you can buy it at the lowest possible rate?


12 asap. We have 41! Workers. I think that something like 45 is a good stopping place.

Yup, 45 is around how many we need...although we can always overproduce and then join them into cities.


4) we should consolidate our workers into a stack of 12 or 24, get a jungle every turn or 2.

This is not a good idea. How many worker-turns does it take to clear a (non-roaded) jungle? For one worker, it takes one turn to move onto the jungle, and 24 turns to clear it. That's 25 turns in total. For two workers, it takes one turn to move onto the jungle (that's two worker-turns), and then 12 turns to clear it. That's 26 worker-turns in total. In general, it takes 24/n + 1 actual turns to clear a jungle tile, where n is the number of workers, and thus n*(24/n + 1) = 24 + n worker turns to clear jungle.

Thus one worker would take 25 worker-turns to clear jungle, 12 workers would take 36 worker turns, and 24 workers would take 48 worker-turns.

The most efficient from a worker-turn point of view is just to assign one worker to each jungle tile, but that's not a good idea because it takes 25 turns to actually clear the tile, by which time the whole strategic shape of the game could have changed. Far better to have a small group of workers doing it, who will not be very inefficient in terms of worker-turns, and who will still clear it expediently.

Having three workers on a tile is good, as that's only 27 worker-turns and 8 real turns. Four is also good, and I would say that six is the maximum. Twelve is just too inefficient and twenty-four is certainly far far too inefficient. Four groups of six workers each can clear four tiles in the time it takes twenty-four workers to clear two (and move onto the third).


7) elite 1 wins with 1hp dmg, no gl 2nd wins in the yellow, no gl. We raze it, due to culture pressure from byblos.

Huh? From Byblos? Byblos is an Egyptian city, no? It'll have no more chance of flipping the city than if it was a native Russian city, and presumably we do want a city there right?


9) GAH! Moscow riots. Stupid first bout war weariness. Nay, make that the whole damn empire.

If you have the rioting dialog popup, you can 'scroll ahead' after the first city riots and fix all the rest.


10) Rejavik should fall next turn, I have around 5 horsies ready. Our horses attack, and we are repelled! We have only taken 2 losses tho, 1 horse and 1 elite sword. All the horses that can fall back.

So did you have MDIs attacking the city too? If you didn't you should probably have waited for them to arrive.

-Sirp.
 
Smurf -

Just wanted to throw my .02 in. This IS a training day game. I realize that you may be a bit more advanced than I am but I would think that in any succession game you play you should keep up on the thread. It isn't like this thread has an overwhelming amount of posts. It should be pretty easy to keep up on :)

You also might keep in mind that being a training day game mistakes will be made. Your approach to some things seem to be a bit harsh. I welcome your comments to open discussions but if you can't keep up on the thread I would suggest that you try to be a bit more diplomatic in your comments. I have very little Civ experience but I understood why PP was chosen because I have kept up on the thread.

I choose to play TDGs because I want to be able to play as I feel is natural without being beaten down. I trust that those hosting and playing the TDGs will use the opportunity to develop me as a player and not to be aggressive, offensive or intimidating.
 
BTW Shaesha,

Good job on brokering the Peace deal with the Vikings.:goodjob:

Personally, I find one of the hardest parts of Civ3 is deciding the optimal time for ending a war.
 
Shaesha: I don't have the time right now to wade through the entire thread; I barely am able to play! I have examns in a week, so I'm worried about those.
I also fail to see where I was particularly harsh. Wondering why we are researching a tech and saying it in that manner is most certainly not harsh. I play mostly FPS games. My definition of harsh would be "WTH YOU STUPID N00B3R WHY ARE WE RESEARCHING PP AARGH WE LOSE!"
Again, I do not have the time to sugarcoat every goddamn thing that I say.

Whats with the language editing? It's not like noone has seen the words before.
 
I guess I am wondering what you are playing a training game for if you aren't playing to learn. And if you were playing to learn then you would be following the thread. I also find the GD word very offensive just FYI, I really don't see the reason in cursing in this or any other thread on this board. And if you have to work *that* hard on sugarcoating things perhaps you need to take an interpersonal communication class :)
 
Rubberjello - Totally Luck! I've never made a peace deal that good in my time with Civ III

:)
Shaesha
 
Smurf,

It is a pre-requisite that participants of any succession game treat each other with courtesy and respect. This is especially so in a training game, where some of the participants may be timid about having their play inspected by others.

If being courteous and respectful is having to 'sugarcoat' everything you say, then yes, that is precisely what you have to do if you want to participate in a game I sponsor. If you enjoy participating in other gaming communities inspite of - or even because of - incourtesy that the gamers show to one another, that is all very well, however if you want to play in this community, in a game sponsored by me, you must be courteous and respectful to others. This is the primary criteria for playing, and it is not open to any discussion, negotiation, or compromise. I might sometimes accept players into games that are not of the ideal skill level for the game, but I will not tolerate players who are not willing to be courteous.

I apologize if these conditions for participation were previously non-obvious. They should be obvious now. Please let us know if you would like to continue playing, abiding by these conditions, or if you would prefer to discontinue participation.

-Sirp.
 
Back
Top Bottom