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EpicCasualWWiiEurope

Discussion in 'Civ2 - Scenario League' started by Dadais, Nov 24, 2020.

  1. voltar

    voltar Drunken Russian

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    Shoot, you were right it seems, invis ZOC. I was even checking the rules.txt for units with invis flag and trying to find something with cheat mode on. Emptying the city and I still couldn't see em?
     
  2. voltar

    voltar Drunken Russian

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    If I may share some opinions.

    Civil is kinda useless, everyone starts with Engineers, there's some civil in events but is that worth the slot use?

    Interesting tank choices. For Germany PzIV is usually the medium people use, it's more numerous. PzIII technically a medium tank by pre-war standards I'd put as their Light. The pz38(t) a great light tank, was actually Czech and less common than PzII or PzIII. Not to mention you specify PzIII J, which didn't enter production until 1941.

    You have individual AA units for civs, kinda niche would it not be better use for those slots to have additional generation of aircraft or individual tank destroyers or SPGs. (StuGs, SUs etc) by having one AA for all civs.

    Mass Transit is buildable, but pollution is disabled.

    Is Policemen just cheap garrison or is there some LUA related purpose, your latest units.bmp has them as some kind of crate now? There's a few English Policemen in Spain at start?

    Maybe combine for the Baltic Infantry for more slots?

    Turkey starts with an 'unused' tech researched, is that for their city style? Maybe rename the tech Turkey or something so it looks nicer.

    Churchill and Stalin start as Female
     
    Last edited: Nov 28, 2020
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  3. Dadais

    Dadais Warlord

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    -Civils are a way to figure some population flux which didn't owned much working power, in contradiction to engineers. I must have missed some, and may have been influenced by my grandma's stories on that point.

    -about tank choices, well, i'm no military specialist, and I went mostly for nice pictures coresponding to light, medium and heavy tanks with a color patern for each civilisation.
    By the way, was thinking about getting the PzIV back as heavy for the nazi and create the nazi a nazi only tech to develop a "super heavy" tank with the tiger ? May I lift the names' specificity (like those "J") What are you thought about that, as you seems quite knowledgeable on that point ?

    -One or two AA would liberate 3 to 4 slots.
    Looked at what SPG are (yeah, i'm useless on armement history) : How would that be implemented in your opinion ? BigAttNoDef with tank-like MovPoint unit ? Wouldn't that be too powerfull (like howitzer in base or first artilleries of this first1.x versions of this scenario) ?
    Was thinking about long range bomber also (mainly for allies) ... yet abandonned. Also didn't personnalized too much aircraft based on reality (particulary on range) on balance purpose.

    -You got the point for these mass transit.
    To be true, I'd like to have a pollution creation system on tiles but avoid climatic heat in the mean time. Didn't find a way to do it yet.

    Policemen was thought as cheap garrison for pre-facism civs, yet was seen whil testing as useless, thus replaced by a material unit (which transform at the beginning of each turn if not destroyed)

    -combining baltic slot could be done. Howether, that would mean lots of work to put back units in an organized manner (thinking of sound and production list order)

    -If not wrong, the unused tech given to the Turc shall block access to "Islamism" for other civs ? Or would be an error. I'll look into it.

    -About Churchill and Stalin gender ... i won't look under their trousers ! :D
    Something should be done on turn 1 indeed.
     
    Last edited: Nov 29, 2020
  4. voltar

    voltar Drunken Russian

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    PzIV is definitely a medium tank, as is the heavier panther. The Panzer IV weighed 5 tons less than a T34 in 1941.

    For game start Sep. 1939 should be all 'light' tanks. German Panzer III and IV was available but in low numbers. There were actually more IVs and IIIs as this stage but to show that by far most tanks were PzI and PzII give em mostly Panzer IIIs and no no IVs so they need to research like everyone else. T34 didn't deploy until 1941 either. I would drop the letter designation for models as there are so many variants. And then you'd need to consider T-34 when it was upgraded to 85mm variant (also armour, engine and transmission changes) in late 1943. So unless we get many more slots simple progression

    Panzer III < Panzer IV < Tiger (Or panther)
    T-26 (Or BT7) < T34 < IS-2 (KV1 is prewar and fully ceased production in 1943)

    Certainly all these countries had many more tanks. USSR pre-war also had T35 heavies and T28 mediums. But I guess we must stick to the mainstream tanks to represent each class and era.
    If you want a later war super heavy Germany fielded Tiger II (King Tiger) and monstrous 71 ton Jagdtiger tank destroyer.

    This scenario seems pretty offensive early on, as German tanks can defeat fortified infantry in cities easily, they don't really need artillery. USSR starts with no army (3 planes, 3 tanks vs 40+ tanks and planes for Germany?) but they have enough artillery to snag a bunch of Neutral territory early.

    Another idea is a generic pre-war medium and heavy to account for the nations that 1930s era tanks of a heavier nature (pre the French B1 Char or the British slow infantry tanks among the others mentioned)

    I think what you have here is astounding and can be quite the successor to the Dictator throne.
     
    Last edited: Nov 28, 2020
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  5. voltar

    voltar Drunken Russian

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    You have Cruisers, Heavy Cruisers, Dreadnoughts and Capital Ship (Battleship)

    Dreadnought is the pre-ww1 capital term often used, while heavy cruiser may refer to the Germany treaty cheating Pocket Battleships (Deutschland battlecruiser)

    Can maybe drop dreadnoughts and make em all heavy cruisers or just make em Battleships, UK had several still in service notably HMS Hood and Germany had a few (Deutschland dreadnought)

    But the Soviet ww1 Battleships (they had 4 deployed in 1939) can be dreadnoughts to show they are weaker than 1930s and later Battleships.

    I'd probably make all Dreadnoughts, obsolete battleships and pocket battleships one unit so can drop Heavy Cruiser.
    I dunno just food for thought

    Partisan and Rebel have same tech/stats. Combine them? No one can build Rebels just Barbarians use em in Spain it seems, seems unnecessary to dedicate a unit for that.
     
    Last edited: Nov 28, 2020
  6. Dadais

    Dadais Warlord

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    About ships, the idea was to identify a hierarchy between :
    -"early" cruisers (bigger than destroyer) and the bigger dreadnough on a side
    -modern cruisers and latest battleship benefitting from ww2 research (eg the CAT, the radar, electric commands ...)
    Wrong idea ?

    -Partisans spawn from cities, and are transformed from english or urss materials.
    On the other hand, Rebels are resistant created from citizen "unhappiness" towards a considered illegitimate ruler other a zone, considering the support disponible from said "disloyal" population and the military pressure.
    From the beginning in Spain are the republican. Other conquested region may have some too. Considering the different mecanics, they shall stay appart.

    -Must say, maybe whith shame, units deployed were inspired mainly by first wwii microprose scenario rather than per history
     
  7. Dadais

    Dadais Warlord

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    Gosh, i planned to let a little time to apply more corrections to next fix, yet I encoutered back the Baltic Mobilization Bug !!!
    Couldn't tolerate to let it run amok while claiming for it to be corrected. Thus, here it's done !

    2.3:
    --in rules.txt
    ¤tanks small review with voltar help. (aka units.bmp) + Added tiger
    ¤Grant infantries, rebels and partisans unit ability to spot invisible unit (thanks to their numbers)
    ¤Reduced material defence to 0.
    -- in events.lua
    ¤Get rid of unused tech from Turc on first turn.
    ¤Turn Stalin and Churchill into true Men on first turn.
    ¤Correct material generation of urss, wrongly created as English.
    ¤Baltic Armies generation bug was back. Corrected !
     

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  8. voltar

    voltar Drunken Russian

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    Maybe also add AICapitalizationLimit, with a high number to @COSMIC2. In such a large scenario the AI stops building units quickly.

    Stalin still starts Female, I guess the change to Male is via events?

    I see you made PZIV the German heavy tank, still seems odd to me. Maybe make it a Panther and PzIV the medium and PZIII the light. PzII was was plentiful but quickly deemed obsolete despite continuing some production through most of the war. I dunno tough call without more slots hehe

    Also keeping in mind the Tiger was deployed by 1943, while the IS2 didn't see combat until 1944, same year as Tiger II
     
    Last edited: Nov 28, 2020
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  9. Dadais

    Dadais Warlord

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    About leaders, an event on turn1 correct the wrong .scn files for each new game played yes.

    I didn't take took time to properly thank you voltar, eyes kept on the objective (of that scenario mature enough to be left as).
    So, much thanks !

    Next fix will see that tank line for german then :
    PzIII => PzIV => Pz VI tiger => tiger II

    while I followed another one based on the unit already present on map in the .scn file, your PzIV odness is not to be trifled with and should be shared by many others after all.
    I'm waiting a little before releasing it whether some Lua correction needs arrise.
     
  10. Dadais

    Dadais Warlord

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    About that point, i'm wondering ?
    If its true the default 512 units could be reached pretty fast by mainly the russian (somehow 5 units per city "only"), on the other hand, allowing AI to build more may burst the default unit limit levelled per default to little more than 4000 ? Thus needing players to touch that, and maybe issuing performences issues for some ?
     
  11. Dadais

    Dadais Warlord

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  12. voltar

    voltar Drunken Russian

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    Even the Germans stop building units after a few turns. AI loves to just place infantry fortified on random tiles.

    Imperialism3 has it at 1,000 units. Keeps the map pretty full late game
     
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  13. Dadais

    Dadais Warlord

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    I'll raise it that number then. Thanks.

    By the way, I just encoutered your ZoC bug with german in Hungary at the moment, with no Neutral Unit present.
    I'll see next turn if these ZoC subsists. My guess at the moment is that Barb ZoC are generated at the beginning of a turn, just before the change of owner. @Prof. Garfield may confirm ?
    I would have to look for a way to copy the old event "on tech found" with Lua rather than test techs at the beginning of turns then. Or do it at the end of turn, if possible ... well, find another way.

    /The bug disapeared during the turn. Concerned about 6 units, others didn't suffer from it.
     
    Last edited: Nov 29, 2020
  14. Prof. Garfield

    Prof. Garfield Deity Supporter

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    ZOC doesn't persist after a unit is destroyed. If there is a ZOC, the unit is there, now. Stacking units from 2 tribes on the same tile can cause weird results, since only units from one tribe are shown (the 'owner' of the tile).

    Use this code in the console to check all the units on the active tile

    Code:
    for unit in civ.getCurrentTile().units do print(unit) end
    
    You'll probably find some that do not have the same owner as all the others.
     
  15. Dadais

    Dadais Warlord

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    In this situation, no unit was destroyed.

    To figure the situation, before the event of the beginning of the turn, we had the city of :
    -Vacz owned by Neutral with two neutral InfantryUnits in it.
    Then the event, in this order.
    -Change owner of the InfantryUnits to nazi
    -Change owner of neutral units in zone to nazi (no one there this time)
    -Change owner of neutral cities in zone to nazi.
    -If mobilization of that coutry wasn't done, create nazi units.

    No other tribe unit on that tile nor few tiles around, and that auto-solved during the turn/totally the next turn.
     
  16. Prof. Garfield

    Prof. Garfield Deity Supporter

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    Ok, I made some tests, and here is what seems to happen:

    Changing the owner of units and cities doesn't appear to change the 'owner' or 'defender' of the tile they are on. ZOC is exerted based on tile defender status (by disbanding all the units on the tile, defender status is set to nil, but owner status remains Spanish, and ZOC disappears), so it persists. Unfortunately, neither tile owner nor defender can be set directly by events. This is as far as my tests have gone.
     
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  17. Dadais

    Dadais Warlord

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    So, solution is to empty the tile one way or another then get back with a unit in it ?
    Quite sad for sure.
     
  18. Prof. Garfield

    Prof. Garfield Deity Supporter

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    You could try the capture city function, but I think that involves plundering, destroying buildings, etc.

    Alternatively, you could use a loop to teleport all the units out of the city, and then another loop to put them back in.
    If you choose an empty tile, you can just loop over all the units in the tile, using tile.units.
     
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  19. Dadais

    Dadais Warlord

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    Guess the best solution in my case would be an other "empty" map, just used for that purpose, so that locations are kept AND we can be sure tiles are empty then.
    Too bad I realise this now, yet good to know.

    Another one being having an innacessible zone on map, like create one in siberia in this scenario, to use on that purpose

    Guess we'll have a second Major fix to implement that then...
     
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2020
  20. Dadais

    Dadais Warlord

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    Or to create a Table of Tables while moving said units on a single tile !
    With {{unit, unit.location.x, unit.location.y, unit.location.z},{unit, unit.location.x, unit.location.y, unit.location.z},...}

    before looping that table to get these units back !
     

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