Er, Spaceship Loss?

[Qpdaj]

So, after a long and painful GOTM 31, I get my second GOTM loss (not too suprising, as this was my first emperor game, and I know I made some mistakes).

However, the surprise was that it was a Spaceship Loss.

Especially since no one had built The Apollo Program.

Er? The F6(?) screen listed every wonder that had been built, and there was no Apollo Program. I still had the option of building the Apollo Program. Isn't the Apollo Program required to build a spaceship?

If I'm wrong, never mind. Else, I've attatched the saved game (the turn after the loss). Try to ignore how badly I've played the game.

 

[AlanH]

Yes, a civ needs to build Apollo to construct the spaceship, but no, Apollo is a small wonder, and doesn't appear in the F7 screen. If it were a Great Wonder then only one civ could build it and only one could shoot for the stars

 

[Qpdaj]

Ah, that explains a lot. I was wondering why no one was bothering to build it; little did I know they already had!!!

I thought The Apollo Program was like The Manhattan Project; a great wonder, but once it's built, anyone can build nukes.

The Civilopedia isn't real clear on what's a great wonder or not...

 

[Sir Bugsy]

There are some great reference PDF files in the creation forum. They have great lists of all wonders (great & small) units, terrain, luxs, techs, civs. There is one for vanilla civ, PTW, & C3C. I reference them quite often.

 

[AlanH]

The Civilopedia isn't real clear on what's a great wonder or not...

My Civilopedia has two separate headings in the top level index - Great Wonders and Small Wonders. That's in Civ3 v1.29.

 

[alamo]

There are no helpful pop-ups when they build parts, either. You need a spy to see enemy ss status.

The rule of thumb is: If they got the tech, then they're building!

 

[Qpdaj]

My Civilopedia has two separate headings in the top level index - Great Wonders and Small Wonders. That's in Civ3 v1.29.

Yes, this is true if I'm looking for wonders to build one day, but I normally get to the Civilopedia entries via the science advisor; that is, I see what techs are coming up, and from those entries, what things I can build. Going that route, it isn't real clear. Just another minor documentation complaint...

 

[Sir Bugsy]

If you have a spy, the space race screen will tell you when they are building a part, and you'll get a pop-up when they complete a part.

 

[AlanH]

I don't do spaceships - they take too long. But I've never planted a spy either. It all seems very risky and very expensive. I live a very sheltered life

 

[Sir Bugsy]

Alan - you haven't lived until you have tried espionage. Sometimes it is a white knuckle experience. "If my spy is caught, Xerxes is going to declare war and I will be in the hurt locker. But, if I succeed, I can make a huge gain."

 

[AlanH]

Just buying the ticket to ride hurts! Nationalism? Espionage? Both optional techs with no other value whatsoever as far as I can tell (personal prejudices, of course )

 

[FriendlyFire]

For some of us Espionage didnt even play a part.
Was to busy fighting for my life against Aggro AIs intend on nothing short of total extermination.

 

[denyd]

I normally acquire Nationalism, Communism & Espionage when trading Atomic Theory & Electronics (TOE slingshot techs).

As for stealing techs, Team C Bablyon Diety Settlers was an excellent example of the benefits.

 

[AlanH]

I normally acquire Nationalism, Communism & Espionage when trading Atomic Theory & Electronics (TOE slingshot techs).

That still costs, in that you are paying for them with *very* valuable techs and moving your rivals fowards on mandatory techs in exchange fo roptional ones. I think that's a bad deal, but as I say I've never felt the high prices and high risks for espionage were justified. Just haven't played the late industrial enough I guess.

As for stealing techs, Team C Bablyon Diety Settlers was an excellent example of the benefits.

I saw and noted it.

 

[denyd]

I normally find the most gpt the AI will pay, then add all their treasury, then any luxury/resource I might need and then if they'll add the tech, that's how I acquire them. I normally bankrupt the richest AI first, then sell the rest. By the time I get to the middle of the pack, they are out of cash, so rather than let them get the tech from another AI for their WM, I trade for the optional techs plus anything else they have. By the time I reach the bottom feeder, there's nothing left to trade for except maybe Espionage or Free Artistry.

Reading SirPleib & DaveMcW accounts make me realize that I've got a very long way to go to get out of the middle of the pack.

I'll try again with GOTM 32 and hopefully a couple of gems of knowledge will have sunk in by then.

 

[AlanH]

so rather than let them get the tech from another AI for their WM, I trade for the optional techs plus anything else they have. .

I don't believe that happens in the current software versions. In any case you can neutralise map values very easily just by ensuring that everyone has the same map. That's a lot cheaper than trading all the AI up to your tech level for free.