Escape From Zombie Island 2: The Remake

[Bluemofia]

Bluemofia... Enslavement for units is really more of a "reward" than a Reality of Practicality. We see a Unit Die but then see a unit appear after. Look at Great Leaders. The Elite Unit that Created the Great Leader remains but where does the Great Leader Come From? ...The Dead unit?

Yeah, I guess I was just being whiny because I can't get a navy without it being utterly destroyed by squid in 2 turns.

The Bottom Line to the Squids enslaving more of their Kind is due to the fact that they cannot be built and because players are not suppose to be able to reach and capture Adventure Island any time in the Early Game.

Unless if they captured the Yacht club, they can't get to it period early game. (except for the Company's T-800. But that's not enough to take the island)

I could for example make the Game far more Challenging to prevent a player from capturing almost all Zombie Buildings before reaching the last Techs and having the ability to go to Adventure Island to capture the Makou Cannon.

I understand that having some possibility of gaining Adventure Island early is good but if that were easily accomplished the game would be far too easy and none challenging.

Well, if you take egroen's idea about allowing champions to do so, that would work. You still need a decent amount to take the island, so the option is still viable, but more difficult.

IF there were not many Giant Squids, the Authorities for example could gain Adventure Island easily.

My brother is not bothering to use transports to get marines over. He's opting to use a paratrooper swarm.

What I see is that the Game is a Bit too easy because players should not basically gain almost all Zombie buildings before reaching their last techs... of course the Makou Cannon would then not be of much value. The Key is to have the game difficult enough so the Zombies have many buildings remaining by the time a player reaches the Techs that allow them to Airdrop or Beam Units to Adventure Island to gain it and the Makou Cannon.

...as for the Giant Squids...they can be set where they do not enslave and the game adjusted again where it will be more difficult to gain almost all zombie buildings before reaching the last tech advances...this was the intention but because many players do not play as well as others, a "happy medium" was attempted. Personally, I find the game very easy on 12A but I cannot use my play as judgement for all players in general...so I thought I had the game adjusted about right for 12A level where it would be challenging for the general player and at least fun for most.

I play as 12A as well. And I think (personally) it is a bit easier than some of the earlier levels simply because the other AI don't give the zombies cities as easily. This is critical in the beginning, for the human player can't launch an effective attack anywhere. So if the other civs don't lose as many cities, the zombies don't get stronger faster.

I personally haven't tried the harder difficulty levels, so I can't be sure that my guess is right. It's just that my brother (who is horrible at civ) plays on Universal, and gets killed every time in the previous version. Then suddenly he plays on 12A in this version as the Authorities, and is dominating. (the first game was as the company didn't really count. He didn't know how a lot of stuff worked yet)

I gather that the game is a bit too easy because players in general should not easily capture almost all Zombie buildings before reaching the late Techs and the ability to gain Adventure Island and the Makou cannon when it will be worth gaining. There would be no point to the Makou cannon and its abilities if the Game is already Won before gaining it.

Sure we would all like to have the cannon early but in the end if we did gain it too soon the game would be won too early and not much fun. Thus the Giant Squids as a Major Deterrent.

That is true. But for the survivors, it isn't really feasible to take the Makou cannon until sewer rats. And that's also the same time where they get an effective way to take the research lab. In my screenshot a few posts up, I have finished bombarding with both of my armies of units. (the northern army which took the Armory, the Military base, the Boot camp, and the hotel, and the southern army, which took everything in the south and close to the research center) It's a fairly large horde, and yet the zombies are hardly hurt.

Either I will have to spend quite a long time starving down a 31 pop city, or I would have to go get the Makou cannon and brute force kill the units there.

Either way, it'll still take a long time to take the research lab. Thus still preserving an incentive to get the Makou cannon. Abiet the Authorities probably won't have such as large of an incentive, because of their sheer number of bombardment units.

It would be very easy to adjust the Zombies with a little more strength for the early game to offset a player being able to gain most of the Zombie buildings before reaching the last techs. This would then make Capturing Adventure Island and the Makou Cannon more desirable and needed.

That's what I feel also. The hardest part of the game right now is the beginning. Everything is scattered about and disorganized. After you manage to organize your forces, bring your good bombardment heroes together and get a good team of attack units, the game just falls together.

For my survivor game, it was basically reaching a "critical mass" of heroes that are able to take a building, and then it kind of snowballs down from there. They can generate more heroes by taking buildings (via killing zombies in there), and thus reduces the time it takes for taking a new building.

For my brother's Authority game, it was the same thing, but made faster with being able to get SWATS that can supplement the heroes bombardment.

Oh, the scenario is a ton of fun and I'm sorry if my comments indicated otherwise. I think relatively minor adjustments are worth considering, but it is obvious a ton of work went into this and it would still be more than great if no further tweaks were added.


I should not have been playing at 12A (which is Monarch and I play mostly at emperor & demi-god)-- I just was intimidated at how much it sounded like the zombies were beefed up from the earlier version. And they are -- but civ is still civ, for the most part.

I still have to think 12A is hard as hell for someone who normally plays around monarch or below (most people) and especially for the first time playing this scenario.

I play on Monarch and win regularly. I'm trying to move up in difficulty level, but Emperor is still fairly difficult. But I find 12A to be fairly easy.

If the cannon is that much of a game breaking unit, make it only one attack per turn - so that you can kill one strong unit with it, which would still make it incredibly useful, but not a game breaker. Or is it already only one attack per round? (I am not at home at the moment)

Currently it's set at 5 attacks.

Consider either A) increasing the attack value of all non-starting zombie units or B) lowering the defense value of all non-hero human units. The zombies are still a bit reluctant to attack, and I feel way too "safe" leaving full health units out alone and unguarded.

I felt the same way too, especially in building terrain. (except for the civilian, workers, and Spunky kid) Until the bat bombers came in. Then I was forced to hide them in cities.

Added note --
I could be wrong, but I thought I recalled reading somewhere in one of the pedia entries that mines could be paradropped on Adventure Island. Wish I could remember where, but obviously this is in error.... if that was indeed what I read.

No, they only have 2 squares of paradrop.

 

[egroen]

No, they only have 2 squares of paradrop.

Yup... I was just trying to point a possible pedia mis-entry.

I play as 12A as well. And I think (personally) it is a bit easier than some of the earlier levels simply because the other AI don't give the zombies cities as easily. This is critical in the beginning, for the human player can't launch an effective attack anywhere. So if the other civs don't lose as many cities, the zombies don't get stronger faster.

That's a good point that I danced around earlier but did not pinpoint. I do not think the zombies took a single AI city all game with the exception of the Hospital and Radio Station (which I believe are intended to be 'gimmees' in the first turn or so, in the hands of the AI). However, the AI survivors managed to take buildings from the AI authorities and AI farmers. A general 'up' of zombie A and/or a tweak down on human D should help with that. Like just one point might do the trick.

Currently it's set at 5 attacks.

Ok... that's an incredibly high powered unit and I see Vuldacon's point about it all but ending the game. IMO, reducing it to one (maybe two) attack per turn, and allowing it to be reached a bit earlier would make it more 'fun'. Not a game breaking unit -- but a challenge to reach and definitely worth it to kill a strong zombie in one shot.

Unless if they captured the Yacht club, they can't get to it period early game. (except for the Company's T-800. But that's not enough to take the island)

No one is going to take the island until the helicopters/sewer rats tech as it is right now. Only the T-800 and Elvis can get there before then (and the Manbot, later). Not sure if the Dalek can get there.

I am going to go to an earlier save (before my cruise mines were decimated by squids and tripled in numbers) and see if I can stage a focused offensive war on the squids (with bombard and cruise mines)... enough so that the rental boats become an option to get to Adventure Island.

I'm not sure it will help though, because as you take zombie buildings, the squid congregate around Adventure Island as it is really their last safe port -- which is too far away to bombard effectively.

We'll see....

 

[Vuldacon]

egroen Bluemofia and Spacer One... Good Points, most of which I was also referring to in earlier posts and basically agree with.

egroen, the Dalek can Reach Adventure Island but remember it is Wheeled so once you Beam it to the Island, if you have it in the Trees next to the Building, it will have to stay there until you either capture Adventure Island or it is destroyed. Wheeled Units that can be "Beamed" to terrain where they cannot normally travel Must have a terrain next to where they are that they can travel to...or a Building they can go in as you capture it. IF Not, the Unit will be Stuck for the Game.

I have searched through the Script Text and find that it is in need of several changes...especially the Science Advisor Script. Most of the incorrect script was from earlier versions. Working on all of this now.

The Detectives have been set with all terrain as roads in the Editor as they were intended.

The most important game factor that allows Momentum enough to be able to gain most of the Zombie buildings a bit early or before the Last Techs is the ability to start gaining Zombie Buildings too early. The sooner this starts, the more power...same for the Zombies and all AI Factions.
Based on this, it is not the Sated Alpha Zombies or there numbers inside the Zombie buildings that needs adjusting for example but rather the Strength and numbers of the early Zombie Units. IF the Zombie Early Units have the ability to capture other AI buildings as well as the player's buildings, this will cause players the need to play more defensively as well as provide the Zombies with even more buildings they will capture from the Other Human AI factions. This combo will create a very tough game as well as provide an extreme need to play with Good Strategy to fair well.

...Concerning Adventure Island and the Makou Cannon... This Island and Cannon was innitially placed as yet another aspect of the game to conquer as well as gain another Fun Weapon. Adventure Island was added to help lengthen the game for a Conquest Victory. Because it was intended to be a Very late Gain, the Tech (Mega Laser) that is needed to be able to upgrade the Cannon for use would have been gained either before or about the same time the Island was Captured. The Power of the Cannon with 5 moves, Blitz and extreme (Highest) Bombard Settings was to offset the Zombie Powerful Units in the late game.
The Problem is that the Champions and Bombard Units allow players the ability to gain most of the Zombie Buildings before reaching Adventure Island or their last techs. The Key to correcting these issues as well as being able to Keep all units and game play factors basically the same is to increase the Early Game Zombie Strengths enough where the Zombies will gain more buildings as well as cause players the need to play more defensively to hold the Buildings they have. This will slow the Gaining of too many captured Zombie Buildings before most Techs have been discovered.

IF The Techs were all adjusted where none could be Traded, that alone would seriously change the game timing for a player to gain the needed techs to keep up with what the Zombies gain. An example is Revenge of the Nerds, needed to be able to Build Auto Defense Systems. IF players do not have this Tech when the Zombies reach Zombiegeddon, Zombie Bat Bombers will seriously bomb them without mercy.

Because the Tech Research was set to a minimum of 13 turns (again to help lengthen the game), a few of the Techs were set and or maintained as tradeable such as Aid Relief, Revenge of the Nerds and Here Boy. This allows a Player to Research other Needed Techs to be able to Keep up and then trade for those other Techs that will also be needed to have what is required to build necessary Improvements such as the Auto Defense Systems. The Farmers for example need to be able to Trade for Guns, Guns, Guns and other Techs because they have a lower ability to research than the Other Factions.
Setting Techs where the slider could be changed with more affect would create more unbalanced tech advances for all Factions...especially for the Human Player.

IF Paradise Island had been created on a Huge World Map, these issues would not tend to cause such difficulties because there would be more distance to travel and many more Buildings to capture as well as far more units to battle. As it is, there are actually few Buildings to Capture on the small Island before gaining the needed "edge" to win. This can only be corrected by making buildings more difficult to capture...at this point this is Best accomplished indirectly such as creating a game situation where the player will have to contend with more units that are set stronger and are attempting to gain the existing buildings owned by the player rather than merely keep adding more Sated Alpha Zombies. Basically if the Early Game is slow for a player to gain more buildings, the Mid and Late game will take care of themselves as they are now. This is the same for all CIV Games...the earlier a player can gain more "cities", the More Power they will have then and later as the game progresses. Momentum.

I am in favor of setting Giant Squids without Enslavement if the Game is adjusted where players will have more to deal with on Paradise Island from the start. Then IF a Player gains Adventure Island and the Makou Cannon earlier, Fine.
Generally, one unit with Blitz and the Highest Bombard Setting will not be a total Game Winning situation by itself but I do agree that because the Cannon is intended for More Fun in the game, it should be gained when it is of more use and value. The Number of Moves can be adjusted concerning Blitz but the Power is ok set as the Highest Strength Bombardment.

Just a Note to say that even the Highest Bombard Setting cannot Kill units that have many Hit Points in just one shot. At Least two shots are usually required for strong units with many Hit Points. Certainly the Makou Cannon could Kill 5 early Units but no the case concerning the Late Zombie Units that are far stronger with more Hit Points.

IF you have managed to Wade through this, you probably took the "Evelyn Woods Speed Reading Dynamics" course or you had nothing better to do with your day

Bottom Line: The Script Text will be adjusted and the Giant Squids, Adventure Island and the Makou Cannon adjusted for better use and game play. This will be done without seriously changing the game as it is currently in all other areas....mainly Game Play Factors will be adjusted to accommodate the newer additions in a better way.

 

[Dezzilisk]

I dont notice the difference between the difficulty levels in this scenario.

Granted i havent played the lower ones.

 

[Virote_Considon]

This dog chose the wrong street to run up:

 

[Vuldacon]

Virote_Considon... yes, it doesn't look good for your Attack Dog there!

 

[Spacer One]

A little something I like to call "The Clearance sale is OVER!!"

 

[Lapoleon]

Ouch, that's going to be one hell of a game to win. What level is it on? I think you're only hope is a tank rush towards the airport as soon as you reach the horrible truth.

 

[Vuldacon]

Spacer One... It appears you are in for a Horrible Time soon because the Zombies will reach The Dreaded then The Omega and then Deadly Evolution.

A Few Comments I want to address:
Tech Costs and Research Time... Costs could be increased but that would drastically increase the Time to gain Advances as well as limit supplies and cause very unbalanced interaction and play. The Research Time is intended to be 13 turns Minimum research time for all Factions and this provides more of an equal balance for all Factions to interact in the game. IF you want to take longer than 13 turns to research a Tech, you can but the Minimum is 13 for game balance. There are not many Techs to research in this game as there are in a Multiple Era CIV Game. The Different Factions also have some different Techs to research and there is a need for all Factions to gain certain Techs by particular times during the game in order to be able to contend with the Zombies and what they gain as the Game continues.
...The Tech Research should not be compared to a "Normal" CIV Game that has many techs, some of which are equal to others in what they allow in power.
Setting a Minimum of 13 turns lengthens the Play for what can be built with each tech gained as well as the entire game. This was desired by many players who felt that 8 turns to research and gain a tech was too fast...and I agree. IF the Research was adjusted where a player could apply more supplies to gain techs faster, it would allow techs to be gained in an unbalanced fashion that would seriously affect the game play.

Note: I am sure, players who play as the Survivors will see that they can certainly use a Rescue Helicopter to take Units to Adventure Island IF they have not gained the Yacht Association and managed to get a Custom Sailboat there by then. A Rescue Helicopter can airdrop units almost anywhere on Paradise Island as well so it is a Valuable Unit to have if a player Opts for Conquest rather than Escape.

...All Human Factions can Make it to Adventure Island without having to depend on Custom Sailboats. The Farmers can use Old Buzzard when they gain a building within range to Airdrop units to Adventure Island. The Company and Authorities both will have Units that they can Airdrop from buildings that are within range and all Human Factions can gain "special" units that Beam Transport. The ability to make it to Adventure Island as well as Capture it, is available to All Factions by the Late Game. The Yacht Association and Custom Sailboats are there for the Zombies to use and any player who can find a way to use the sailboats to make it to Adventure Island earlier. This possibility will be made a bit easier for those who want to gain Adventure Island earlier in the game by using Custom Sailboats. More power will be added to the Cruisers to contend with the Giant Squids as well as lower the Number of Giant Squids and remove their ability to enslave more of their Kind. The Zombies will have more power in the early game to be able to capture buildings as well as cause players the need to play more defensively.

 

[Spacer One]

Nah, it only looks bad...Thats why I took the screenie...all those Monster Zombies are pouring down the street...They took the furniture store like it wasnt even there...I have consolidated my forces into an army of escape...I have 80+ units in 2 stacks of 40 bombing the crap out of the airport...including King Arhtur, Hanible, about 30 champions, Hellfire Rev, Sam Hammer, Miss Tok, Charlie...Pyromaniacs for days!!!

Notable casualties: Mike Rush and the Rushmobile died trying to transport Abe from the old folks home...a sad loss that I shouldnt have made...(It would be nice if there were some kind of SLOW transport to help get Abe out of there late game...at least using the "Escape" strategy, this would be helpgul)...I managed to die in "Cameo" TWICE! as well as both of my kids ( ) Freddie always dies, because I cant tell him from other maniacs...Vuldacon died in the heroic last stand of the furniture store, as well as nearly 25 Badasses, and a dozen Pyros, little Timmy, Timmy's dog, scraps, lil johnney, and about 25 spunky kids...(BTW, after the first 5 or so, I find it creepy to think about zombies mauling through a school full of children...is it possible to have it spawn teachers, who upgrade to pyros later?? That way in the later game, when kids spawn so fast I dunno what to do with em(So all buildings end up with 10-15 kids running around...I fell it kinda screws up the mental image) I would be getting "Civilians" named "Teacher" instead....

I havent even attempted Adventure Island yet, but I did capture the guy who turns into a Dalek...I for some reason cannot upgrade him...plenty of supplies, it says no resources are required, and I have the tech...so what am I doing wrong?? Ive tried at the Bastion and in other cities....

 

[Bluemofia]

Ha, when I get huge numbers of spunky kids, I use them as softeners. They bombard first, killing any units outside buildings with sheer numbers and damaging units in buildings for the stronger units to finish off. Thus wasting less precious bombard turns with the stronger units.

 

[Spacer One]

I use spunky kids like that too...but sometimes I get sick of bombarding Over and Over and Over and...

I tend to use them more for disbanding to hurry improvements when Im low on supplies...

Vuldacon: the Hand built tanks kick arse now...3 of them can hold a street nicely

 

[Vuldacon]

Spacer One... You need Revenge of the Nerds to be able to Upgrade Jeff Moris to the Dalek.

...as for having "teachers" rather than Spunky Kids produced from the School, it would seem to me that Teachers would be produced from a college and besides, there are many ways to use the Spunky Kids and I did set them so they can be disbanded if not wanted or there are too many of them. They do require support but they are great little units for gathering stray supply drops, scouting and injuring the enemy. Many of them together can Kill most units Zombies do not understand Adults from Kids and will go after any Human...this is The "Reality" dealing with Zombies

Glad you like the Tank Now

 

[Spacer One]

I have revenge of the nerds

 

[Dezzilisk]

I use spunky kids like that too...but sometimes I get sick of bombarding Over and Over and Over and...

I tend to use them more for disbanding to hurry improvements when Im low on supplies...

Vuldacon: the Hand built tanks kick arse now...3 of them can hold a street nicely

Dude, turn off animate combat and hit the b key then click for as many times as you want, takes like half a min to bombard with a stack of 30

Dont really need to see what you hit as there are usually no units left after

 

[Dezzilisk]

And can you add a disband button for strippers and dockers?

I used a mixed Mega SOD of the two of them to destroy the farmers and i dont need them, it bugs me that i cant just kill the lil buggers

 

[Vuldacon]

Spacer One... Do you have Jeff in a Building with a Machine Shop for Upgrade ability? Also, Do you have the needed Supplies as well as Revenge of the Nerds? I believe you probably just do not have the Needed supplies for the Upgrade. Cost is times 2 if you have not built a wonder that decreases this and Jeff's Cost is 100 and the Dalek is 400.
400 - 100 = 300 x 2 = 600 supplies.

Dezzilisk... Dockers and Strippers do not have a Cost so disbanding them would not serve any gain...same for Chainsaw Maniacs, However I can set them all where they will disband without benefit just so a player has this option.

 

[Dezzilisk]

Thanks

I really like the new updates, the new units fit in well with the game.

But Mr T died on his first attack

 

[Vuldacon]

Yes, Even though Mr T as well as Vuldacon have strong stats, they must by used with care or they can die. I will look into the Stats more for those two characters...perhaps they can be "tweaked" so they can be of more use without being Killed as easily. The AI always manages to get Vuldacon and Special Units killed early.

 

[Virote_Considon]

And can you add a disband button for strippers and dockers?

I used a mixed Mega SOD of the two of them to destroy the farmers and i dont need them, it bugs me that i cant just kill the lil buggers

Fortify them, or maybe use them as some kind of human wall?