espionage very punishing on tall empires?

[chazzycat]

did they mean to make that effect so strong?

I am playing my first game with a wide empire. All my cities have pretty low relative potential and so they have never been targetted, despite my being #1 in science overall.

One of the AI is playing like an OCC with one really big city so it has very high potential.

I steal any tech he has available every 7 turns. I have never had anything stolen from me.

Basically if you go tall or OCC, there is little benefit to being ahead in tech, as it will surely be stolen.

thoughts?

 

[Glassmage]

um I think you actually have an easier time with 1 spy in capital and see your spy level up fast.

 

[chazzycat]

I suppose, but then you are stuck on defense until industrial, while a wide player is free to go on the offensive from the rennaissance.

I haven't played yet with a tall empire, my observations are based solely off how easy it is to steal from them.

 

[AriochIV]

I had 2 techs stolen from me in only about a dozen turns (my capital was max Potential, and my first spy was in a City-State), so the theft can happen pretty quickly.

 

[utgotye]

I can vouch for tall empires being easier to steal from. I had a Special Agent in my capital and had 2 techs stolen in about 30 turns. The first one, that's fine, I didn't like it but no big deal. However, when it showed that the second was stolen by "an unknown civilization", I started getting irritated. After all, don't you have to actually meet someone before you can pilfer their crap?

After another 40ish turns, I was informed that I had killed a Danish spy in my capital. Well, I hadn't noticed Harald reaching the Renaissance era yet so I double-checked in the Diplomacy Overview and sure enough, he was still in the Medieval era. I was confused and downright pissed off at that point. If I wasn't doing so well overall I'd be accusing the AI of cheating over and above the usual amount.

 

[Calouste]

I can vouch for tall empires being easier to steal from. I had a Special Agent in my capital and had 2 techs stolen in about 30 turns. The first one, that's fine, I didn't like it but no big deal. However, when it showed that the second was stolen by "an unknown civilization", I started getting irritated. After all, don't you have to actually meet someone before you can pilfer their crap?

After another 40ish turns, I was informed that I had killed a Danish spy in my capital. Well, I hadn't noticed Harald reaching the Renaissance era yet so I double-checked in the Diplomacy Overview and sure enough, he was still in the Medieval era. I was confused and downright pissed off at that point. If I wasn't doing so well overall I'd be accusing the AI of cheating over and above the usual amount.

Everyone gets a spy as soon as the first civ enters the Renaissance.

And the "unknown civilization" doesn't mean that you haven't met them yet. It means you have met them, you just don't know who actually did the stealing.

 

[Glassmage]

Um..... everyone get a spy when the first player enter Renaissance. Should read more

 

[Tabarnak]

Being first to the ren. era, why not building things that reduce grantly espionnage stealing techs?

 

[chazzycat]

well getting there first opens the floodgates of theft sooner, so I'm not sure if that would help, since all civs get a spy at that point. I guess spy defense will just become a high priority for tall empires...will definitely have to play with it a lot more to get a feel.

 

[Calouste]

Whenever a backwards civ shows interest in my technologies like that, I appreciate their willingness to learn and their desire for progress. In fact, I appreciate it so much that I invite them for a demonstration of what you can do with all those new techs. And being the nice guy that I am, they don't even have to leave home for that demonstration, I will bring it right to their doorstep.

 

[pspboy7]

I can say that being tall can be easy to steal from, your potential in cities goes up faster when you aim tall rather than wide. On the other hand, you can manage spies better with fewer cities to protect.

 

[AriochIV]

Whenever a backwards civ shows interest in my technologies like that, I appreciate their willingness to learn and their desire for progress. In fact, I appreciate it so much that I invite them for a demonstration of what you can do with all those new techs. And being the nice guy that I am, they don't even have to leave home for that demonstration, I will bring it right to their doorstep.

Yes, I also took the technology theft as a sign that the civilization needed my help, so I helpfully admitted all of their cities into my empire.

 

[baulkin]

I know i'm going to get flamed for this one...but if your ahead in literacy. Stay out of the ren era. Just fill out the rest of your techs. Enter the ren era with the tech that gives constabulary. As soon as you enter, build / purchase them in your biggest cities that turn. Then rush to the next era so that you can have 1 offensive and 1 defensive spy. You can get and keep a tech advantage with a tall empire. You just have to be trixy. If you can get away with limiting the number of embassy's you have...that can help as well. Eventually you'll end up with them...but if you can hold them off til the 2nd spy it helps. But this tends to piss off the ai.

 

[dexters]

There's a fairly long cooldown for the 1st steal and repeat steals. It's not like the spies are fully level right out of the gate.

I've had 3 techs stolen from me so far playing against 8 other civs to Industrial, and I was tech leader for most of the period since the Renaissance.

If you're a tech leader, having a few lower tier civs steal techs you can research in 3 turns isn't going to make or break your lead. The AI operates on a flavour basis.

Your friends are unlikey to steal from you. The civs who stole from me was my enemy. And you can confront them and even forgive them or threaten them Forgiving their theft is a positive modifier. I'm unsure if it makes the AI change strategy by moving their spy out of your capital. I assume it's a possible outcome.