Estonian Civilazation (WIP)

[Antagonise]

There's just too many abilities there, and it's also incredibly overpowered! By the end of the Modern Era those tiles will make +10 Culture, +4 Production, +4 Faith. Once you get Hotels and Airports, each marsh tile is going to be better then the Eiffel Tower in terms of tourism. It's far, far too much.

Is the marsh resource a luxury that you get from discovering marshes?

 

[margustoo]

There's just too many abilities there, and it's also incredibly overpowered! By the end of the Modern Era those tiles will make +10 Culture, +4 Production, +4 Faith. Once you get Hotels and Airports, each marsh tile is going to be better then the Eiffel Tower in terms of tourism. It's far, far too much.

Is the marsh resource a luxury that you get from discovering marshes?

UA: Inbetween Swamps and forests
Marshes yield +2 culture, +2 faith.
Additionally every next era +1 culture and starting from Industrial Era additional +1 production
Marsh resources are added to your trade network upon discovering
there is no penalty fighting in marshes and marshes act as fresh water resource.
(Last three have to be there otherwise it is almost impossible to specialize on marsh terrain.. last two might be hidden as well)

+25% Combat strength in friendly territory when fighting against multiple civilizations.

(Possible hidden addition: if you settle for first 3 times then max 3 marshes spawn near you and replace flat terrain..)

What about now??

 

[Antagonise]

I don't understand the marsh resource thing. Does it become a luxury? How does it work?

 

[Hoop Thrower]

There's got to be a better way to go around this:

UA: Between Swamps and forests : Discovering Marshes Yield a Boost of Culture and their tiles are instantly claimed. Worked Marsh Tiles provides +2 Faith and +2 Production.

 

[Antagonise]

There's got to be a better way to go around this:

UA: Between Swamps and forests : Discovering Marshes Yield a Boost of Culture and their tiles are instantly claimed. Worked Marsh Tiles provides +2 Faith and +2 Production.

I like this one. It's a fairly strong and keeps it simple.

 

[margustoo]

I don't understand the marsh resource thing. Does it become a luxury? How does it work?

UA: Inbetween Swamps and enemies
Marshes yield +2 culture, +1 faith.
At Medieval era additional +2 culture, +1 faith from marsh
Fertillizer tech adds +2 production and +1 Food
Resources that are on marsh tile will be added to your trade network upon discovering
there is no penalty fighting in marshes and marshes act as fresh water resource.
(Last three have to be there otherwise it is almost impossible to specialize on marsh terrain.. last two might be hidden as well)

+25% Combat strength in friendly territory when fighting against multiple civilizations.

(Possible hidden addition: if you settle for first 3 times then max 3 marshes spawn near you and replace flat terrain..)

How is it now??

Also, Sry for that Resource misunderstanding.. I forgot to fix the misspelling..

 

[Antagonise]

That's getting better. It's a lot more well balanced, now you just have to get a punchy description for players to read. How about something like this:

Between Swamps and Foes
Marshes, yield +2 Culture, +1 Faith, provide fresh water and gain additional bonus yields after researching Philosophy and Fertilizer. Resources on marsh tiles in your territory are instantly connected to your trade network. +25% Combat strength in friendly territory when fighting against multiple civilizations.

That's about as short as I could make it. Then you would of course have the hidden ability of fighting better in marsh and spawning marsh around your cities.

 

[Natan35]

I don't get the point of bonus after Fertilizer.... And the bonus after entering the medieval era. I'd modify my idea....

UA:
Marshes yield +1 culture and +1 faith, and are improved by a bog* after being worked for 25 turns. Gain a combat boost instead of a penalty when fighting in marshes, and +1 tourism from cities working marshes 1 per each culture building in the city.

*Bog: +1 production, +1 culture, +1 faith. +1 production after industrialisation, +1 tourism after flight. Yields +1 gold if built on a resource.

 

[Danmacsch]

Good luck getting that phrased in a way that's short enough to fit in the civ selection screen .
In all seriousness, IMO it's still both too cluttered and complex. Hoop's suggestion would work quite nice on its own I think.

 

[Natan35]

Except its a rather easy way of doing things... Imagine claiming a sugar within 2 tiles of someone's capital... Not exactly balanced, is it?

 

[Danmacsch]

True, true.. Could be changed to "marsh tiles within workable ranged of your cities are instantly claimed", though that may be a bit too similar to the Sami UA.

 

[Natan35]

Basically a weaker version... I'm in favour of a bog reference.

 

[shaglio]

Also, IIRC, there is no such thing as a Marsh starting bias. Marsh is a terrain feature (like Forest and Jungle) the can appear on grassland terrain. I believe the Dutch have a Grassland start bias to increase the odds of spawning near Marsh tiles.

Which, as I said earlier, is why Polders work on Flood Plains as well. Not because there's a lot of Flood Plains in the Netherlands, but just to make the UI more useful. Maybe you could take a page out of their book and make your Marsh bonuses also apply to Flood Plains. Not because there a lot of Flood Plains in Estonia, but just to make the UA more useful.

 

[margustoo]

That's getting better. It's a lot more well balanced, now you just have to get a punchy description for players to read. How about something like this:

UA Between Swamps and Foes
Marshes, yield +2 Culture, +1 Faith, provide fresh water and gain additional bonus yields after researching Philosophy and Fertilizer.
Resources on marsh tiles in your territory are instantly connected to your trade network.
+25% Combat strength in friendly territory when fighting against multiple civilizations.

That's about as short as I could make it. Then you would of course have the hidden ability of fighting better in marsh and spawning marsh around your cities.

I quite like it So I changed UA info to that.. First spoiler will show what that description means..

 

[Natan35]

No. If anything, It should five bonuses on lakes. Its more accurate.
(Also UA is insane. It'll make marhses provide more culture than a Moai does... And Moai is an improvement.)

 

[margustoo]

No. If anything, It should five bonuses on lakes. Its more accurate.
(Also UA is insane. It'll make marhses provide more culture than a Moai does... And Moai is an improvement.)

Yes.. but there is plenty enough coast but there is not so many marsh tiles..
Also don't forget that until fertilizer you get no production and only +1 food production from Marshes..That means that if you want to grow to somewhat decent size then those marshes aren't that useful for a while..

 

[Hoop Thrower]

What if the civ instead gained a bonus from clearing Marshes? Like a Production and Culture bonus each time a Marsh is cleared?

 

[margustoo]

What if the civ instead gained a bonus from clearing Marshes? Like a Production and Culture bonus each time a Marsh is cleared?

That would be bad idea because it would be better for civ like Soviet Union.. UA should be something that has at least sth to do with civ that you are playing with..

 

[Natan35]

Okay, how about that:

UA:
+1 culture and faith from lakes and marshes, which provide +15% combat bonus to units fighting near them. Marshes receive a bog* improvement after being worked for 20 turns, and automatically connect resources present on them to your trade network.

*Bog: +1 culture and faith, +1 production after industrialisation, +1 tourism after flight. +1 gold and production if built on a resource.

 

[margustoo]

Okay, how about that:

UA:
+1 culture and faith from lakes and marshes, which provide +15% combat bonus to units fighting near them. Marshes receive a bog* improvement after being worked for 20 turns, and automatically connect resources present on them to your trade network.

*Bog: +1 culture and faith, +1 production after industrialisation, +1 tourism after flight. +1 gold and production if built on a resource.

As much as i like it I also fear that describing it with few sentences to plater might be almost impossible and implementing bogs so that game checks how long have you worked marsh might also be quite close to impossible..

Although, good idea