Ethnically Diverse Units (4/16/06)

[zenspiderz]

Beautiful mod .. should have been included in the vanilla..

One question though how can I use it in multiplayer??

Look forward to any updates too ​

 

[Rabbit, White]

Beautiful mod .. should have been included in the vanilla..

One question though how can I use it in multiplayer??

Look forward to any updates too ​

Thank you. I expect that since it's mostly just graphical modification (and the xml changes are very basic) it shouldn't have any problems working in MP games but of course you will need all the people in the game to have this mod.

 

[sepamu92]

@Rabbit, White: RoX stands for Rhye's of Civilization, Expanded. It was an earth scenario for Civ3 that also had a new tech tree and flavor units. Each flavor unit had the exact same stats, name, prerequisites, and civiliopedia icon, but different animations ingame.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=111977

@Ploeperpengel: I could do horse archers, however I have no idea what they would look like. The only civs I can really imagine using them are Mongels, Souix, Slavs, and Persians.

 

[Los Tirano]

Hey Rabbit, you are clearly so skilled at creating ethnic units i thought i would share an idea with you.

Child soldiers

Amnesty international estimates that over 300 000 child soldiers are actively fighting in conflicts throughout the world. Especially in Africa.

http://web.amnesty.org/pages/childsoldiers-index-eng

Im not a fan of this practice, but i am a fan of accurate history and realism, and i think this deserves to be in. They were used in the Iran/Iraq war and are still used in Africa and elsewhere. There are already child models in the game, they could be reskinned, used with the marine animation (it has the AK, a common gun for child soldiers).

Once made, the in game benefits would be an extremely cheap cost infrantry, but with a serious penalty to strength.

Now given your current contributions in new models when i thought up this idea, i thought this could be added to your ethnic unit compilation. Hope you reply!

 

[Rabbit, White]

Hey Rabbit, you are clearly so skilled at creating ethnic units i thought i would share an idea with you.

Child soldiers

Amnesty international estimates that over 300 000 child soldiers are actively fighting in conflicts throughout the world. Especially in Africa.

http://web.amnesty.org/pages/childsoldiers-index-eng

Im not a fan of this practice, but i am a fan of accurate history and realism, and i think this deserves to be in. They were used in the Iran/Iraq war and are still used in Africa and elsewhere. There are already child models in the game, they could be reskinned, used with the marine animation (it has the AK, a common gun for child soldiers).

Once made, the in game benefits would be an extremely cheap cost infrantry, but with a serious penalty to strength.

Now given your current contributions in new models when i thought up this idea, i thought this could be added to your ethnic unit compilation. Hope you reply!

You honestly think it's a good idea to have a representation of children (even if it's very low poly) shooting guns, and worse yet being shot at and dying, in a game for the sake of realism? I would put this in the same category as adding active gas chambers to a game like Castle of Wolfenstein because it has Nazis in it and they used gas chambers. Maybe it's historically accurate but hardly has a place in a game, and arguably could be considered distasteful.

In the end of the day, when it comes to games, gameplay and fun has to trump realism and I don't see how adding child soldiers would add to either gameplay or fun. So I guess the answer is no, I will not be doing this.

I hope you don't take my strong response personally, it's only due to my strong opinion on the subject.

 

[Zenemij]

awesome stuff, i'll keep an eye out for updates.

and i second the no to child soldiers, i play civ for fun, not for second thoughts.

 

[Head Serf]

Child soldiers should definately not be in the game, both because it is distastful and because of it being unrealistic.

 

[Shqype]

You honestly think it's a good idea to have a representation of children (even if it's very low poly) shooting guns, and worse yet being shot at and dying, in a game for the sake of realism? I would put this in the same category as adding active gas chambers to a game like Castle of Wolfenstein because it has Nazis in it and they used gas chambers. Maybe it's historically accurate but hardly has a place in a game, and arguably could be considered distasteful.

In the end of the day, when it comes to games, gameplay and fun has to trump realism and I don't see how adding child soldiers would add to either gameplay or fun. So I guess the answer is no, I will not be doing this.

I hope you don't take my strong response personally, it's only due to my strong opinion on the subject.

I think they would be interesting. Perhaps it's because I have a higher tolerance for this sort of stuff.

 

[Wyz_sub10]

Child soldiers should definately not be in the game, both because it is distastful and because of it being unrealistic.

I think the unfortunate truth is that it is very realistic, which is why it is so distasteful to some.

 

[Los Tirano]

The fact that it is very realistic and that it does occur is the reason i suggested it. But thanks for considering it, even if the idea was shot down quickly . I may be able to create these units myself, but i havent done it before. However, Ive read your tutorial Rabbit on making units.

But as for it being distasteful I would agree but have to add this. Whenever anyone has engaged in a serious war that has wiped out whole civilisations have you ever kept track of how many civilians you kill alone? We arent sure how many people make up the units we kill with abandon but the number of civilians in the city can be determined. So given that wiping out a city involves the killing of women and children i would argue civ already ventures into the realm of distastefulness, even if it is glossed over. There's religious wars, pillaging, even mods adding inquisitors. The line has already been crossed, and i prefer truth and realism to a glossing over of reality.

 

[Rabbit, White]

But as for it being distasteful I would agree but have to add this. Whenever anyone has engaged in a serious war that has wiped out whole civilisations have you ever kept track of how many civilians you kill alone? We arent sure how many people make up the units we kill with abandon but the number of civilians in the city can be determined. So given that wiping out a city involves the killing of women and children i would argue civ already ventures into the realm of distastefulness, even if it is glossed over. There's religious wars, pillaging, even mods adding inquisitors. The line has already been crossed, and i prefer truth and realism to a glossing over of reality.

Just to quickly respond to that, without starting a discussion. Those children and women you kill when you raise a city are purely imagined, there is no representation of that in the game. What you're proposing would make it much more literal. And yes I know it's still polygons in game and you could argue that it is all imagined as well but there is a reason why in PG rated movies you can only show the shadow of someone killing someone brutally while in R rated you can actually show the act itself - even though both are just a movie and obviously fictional, there is a difference between the two.

Anyway, I'm done on this topic, don't want to sidetrack too much.

 

[Impaler[WrG]]

I think the Arabian Warrior looks much more like a Spearman then a Warrior, the quitisential visual elements of the warrior are...

1. Shirtless
2. Club

Likewise the Indian Warrior looks to me like an Aboriginal spearman with his face painted white like that and the loincloth for clothing. Not that I realy have much of a mental image of an Indian Warrior other then a guy with a club, no shirt and a turbine.

 

[Rabbit, White]

I think the Arabian Warrior looks much more like a Spearman then a Warrior, the quitisential visual elements of the warrior are...

1. Shirtless
2. Club

Likewise the Indian Warrior looks to me like an Aboriginal spearman with his face painted white like that and the loincloth for clothing. Not that I realy have much of a mental image of an Indian Warrior other then a guy with a club, no shirt and a turbine.

Thing is, when I was doing these guys I just didn't think it would work to have those flavor units running around with clubs - somehow it just didn't work for me. And since the only other non-metal, very basic weapon is the spear, I figured I'll do that. Of course, somehow I completely forgot about the existance of spearman - notice how I mentioned that I'll be moving on to next unit and then listed archer and swordsman.

So, I will definitely be re-examining the units, and probably end up redoing them (and of course the good thing is that I have a lot of the spearmen already done ). Having said that, it doesn't necessarily mean that there won't be spear-wielding warriors at all. For example, I think the African warrior is only good with a spear really - that's based on the various images of African ancient people that I encountered throughout, if someone would like to point to a case where a club or a club-like weapon was a prominent weapon of african people then I'll be glad to include that.

Needless to say, next unit I'll be adding is spearman. (though there maybe some new archers and chariots heading your way soon)

 

[Wyz_sub10]

How's this coming along, WR?

 

[Rabbit, White]

It's on temporary hold as I'm working on other stuff, but it's always in the back of my mind
I am however getting some help now so there might be an update next weekend (or maybe a small one this weekend, we'll see).

 

[Wyz_sub10]

It's on temporary hold as I'm working on other stuff, but it's always in the back of my mind
I am however getting some help now so there might be an update next weekend (or maybe a small one this weekend, we'll see).

Cool. I'm definitely adding the Settler, Scout and Warrior to CIV Gold. I'm holding out on the archer, etc. because I want to make sure the re-vamped Sioux and Iroquois UUs don't look too similar.

 

[agoodfella]

Hey guys, a few simple q's:

1) Is this compatible with the Warlords XPansion Pack?
2) How do you add individual units?

Thanks

 

[Rabbit, White]

Ok, there's definitely going to be an update this weekend. If all goes according to plan it'll be a big one, if not it'll be a smaller one but still exciting, as I am using new units available in Warlords to inject some new and fresh art into the mod. There will also be some changes to current units as I have somewhat changed my approach to the mod, whether everyone agrees with the changes is to be seen but I think they're for the best.

Cheers
WR

 

[Rabbit, White]

Hey guys, a few simple q's:

1) Is this compatible with the Warlords XPansion Pack?
2) How do you add individual units?

Thanks

1) I don't really know, I haven't looked at the Warlords XML files. However, other than the added unit graphics the changes are fairly basic and are limited to four XML files. I think you'll just need to "merge" these changes with Warlords, just like any other mod.

Since I don't expect this to be hard, I am going to make a Warlords compatible version of the mod fairly soon, maybe even next weekend. Only trouble you might have with it is that some of the new units I'm adding (read my previous post) are taken from/based on Warlords units and so you might end up having two different units looking the same. If such cases occur I will eventually resolve them but that will take longer.

2) I assume you mean that you want to only use some of the units I created instead of all. First of all let me just say that I feel deeply insulted by the suggestion... just kidding, moving on...

If that is indeed the case, you will need to do some xml editing, it's not too difficult but it's a bit complex because of the amount of units, and the fact that there are four files involved for each of them.

Basically you would need to go into each of the xml files and remove all tags/references to the units you don't want to use. Or, the other way, would be to copy the ones you want into the xml files for your mod. And of course remove the art, though that's not necessary for the game, just to save up space.

 

[Civmansam]

Ok, there's definitely going to be an update this weekend. If all goes according to plan it'll be a big one, if not it'll be a smaller one but still exciting, as I am using new units available in Warlords to inject some new and fresh art into the mod. There will also be some changes to current units as I have somewhat changed my approach to the mod, whether everyone agrees with the changes is to be seen but I think they're for the best.

Cheers
WR

Looking forward to the next release