Eureka system - anyone else started to dislike it?

[Disgustipated]

I'm okay with it. I don't dislike it, but neither do I think it's the greatest thing since sliced bread. Sliced bread being friggin' awesome.

I feel like I often can't wait to get Eurekas, especially when wonders are on the line. I still can't resist wonders like Potala palace (though I didn't get it my last game), Forbidden City, and Big Ben. I like the extra military policy one, but the AI usually gets that one. But it is so sweet when I get all four. Point is I still put a high priority on getting a good research rate and having enough campus districts appropriate for my difficulty level. I don't aim for fastest victories, I just aim to have fun. I'm not sure what my Eureka rate is, maybe around 60%. Sometimes I have barbarians turned off, and those Eurekas/inspirations are impossible to get.

 

[WillowBrook]

There are a great many eurekas that require reaching a threshold X (6 farms, 6 pop, 3 barbarians, 2 neighbourhoods, etc. etc.). Games like the Endless series are already capable of implementing scaleable achievements that track how many of X you've achieved - granted in those games as well you generally get a flat bonus once you've achieved X and nothing before that point, but there's no clear reason why that has to be the case.

Say your civ gets a small percentage boost towards a eureka every time it creates a farm (Fuedalism), kills a barbarian (Bronze Working), increases pop size (Political Philosophy) etc. up to a certain threshold - possibly the existing 50%. Then gameplay is less about min-maxing and more about calculating a trade-off between the value you gain for an incremental boost to a eureka in a particular game context and doing something else.

That also rebalances boosts from spies and Great People, as those could still give the full bonus - which makes them more desirable and gives you an alternative way to get specific eurekas that are less useful to rush through game actions on any given playthrough. Ideally, eurekas would be balanced so that it varies with context which route is most effective for most boosts.

If they want to adjust the current system without (in my view) bigger changes such as those I and other have suggested, this is an excellent idea of how to do it.

 

[Guandao]

I don't mind the Eureka system. I often don't get many of them in time, same goes for Civic inspirations.

Sometimes, they don't make sense to me. Why would having three Privateers trigger the Eureka for Electricity?

 

[Disgustipated]

Yeah I don't like the electricity ones. Factories make more sense, but for some reason that gives the inspiration for class struggle. Factories need power, so factories should give the inspiration for electricity.

 

[shaglio]

Sorry, but ignoring eurekas just isn't smart gaming in Civ6. They're big bonuses and you're going to do better by chasing them. The only exception might be a full-on domination victory. But basically my experience has been that maximizing eurekas = smart = repetitive.

If you're min/maxing you really shouldn't complain about repetitive game-play. That's what min/maxing is all about: finding the optimal path to victory. Then you apply that optimal path to consecutive games and naturally it's going to become repetitive. That's a consequence of min/maxing in any game, not just the Eureka system in Civ 6.

 

[Scaramanga]

Yeah I don't like the electricity ones. Factories make more sense, but for some reason that gives the inspiration for class struggle. Factories need power, so factories should give the inspiration for electricity.

Maybe has something to do with the weather phenomenon St. Elmo's Fire.

 

[Art Morte]

If you're min/maxing you really shouldn't complain about repetitive game-play. That's what min/maxing is all about: finding the optimal path to victory. Then you apply that optimal path to consecutive games and naturally it's going to become repetitive. That's a consequence of min/maxing in any game, not just the Eureka system in Civ 6.

Okay, you know, that's a fair point, but I think the eureka system in Civ6 encourages you a bit too much to do that min/maxing. Too many instances in the game where I'd feel stupid to ignore them - and I don't like feeling stupid.

 

[SammyKhalifa]

Yeah I don't like the electricity ones. Factories make more sense, but for some reason that gives the inspiration for class struggle. Factories need power, so factories should give the inspiration for electricity.

It makes sense for class struggle too though.

 

[stinkubus]

Maybe has something to do with the weather phenomenon St. Elmo's Fire.

 

[shaglio]

Okay, you know, that's a fair point, but I think the eureka system in Civ6 encourages you a bit too much to do that min/maxing. Too many instances in the game where I'd feel stupid to ignore them - and I don't like feeling stupid.

I hear ya. As others have said, maybe toning it down would help make it feel less mandatory. Especially if the Research costs are going up in the expansion (I think somebody discovered that from one of the screenshots). If the number of beakers goes up, that 50% is going to be even more beneficial.

 

[clapyourhands]

As many have already said before increasing tech costs inherently makes Eurekas more valuable, which IMO is a good thing if they do a significant balance pass on the existing ones.

I think Eurekas should be difficult enough to achieve that they aren't even worth going for unless the tech is directly relevant to your immediate goals. The opportunity cost of going for a Eureka should be more than the number of turns saved unless the behavior needed to trigger the Eureka was similar to what you were going to do already. I think the coastal city one is a good implementation, in that you wouldn't found a city on the coast just for Sailing because coasts are usually suboptimal, but if you were already planning on an early coastal city, the Eureka saves time on an immediately valuable tech; there is no opportunity cost because you were going to found a city by the sea anyways. If Eurekas are not worth going out of your way to min-max for but instead accentuate parts of your strategy that are important and/or influenced by your surroundings, it would go a long way to making games more unique. This means changing the easier Eurekas into something that actually requires a commitment beyond standard gameplay; everyone builds a Trader and makes a trade route, but not everyone would necessarily make an external route rather than an internal one or builds two Traders before Currency unless trading is going to be an important part of their strategy, and it's those players that would find it worth it to get the Eureka for that tech. Same goes for the military bonuses unless you're planning to do some early warfare (I know that's the plan for most players anyways, but that's an issue with game balance and not Eurekas).

 

[Scaramanga]

I said weather phenomenon not cultural phenomenon.

 

[UWHabs]

The main thing I don't like is that some are too simply to abuse. For example, the 2 forts. To me, it simply works out that I'd usually just buy an engineer and build my 2 forts for the eureka, since that's a great trade of money to science normally.

I like the idea above about having eurekas be more about building up to them. So if each mine gave 1/6 of the bonus to apprenticeship up to a max of the 50% boost, that would be neat. The forts one would be something like you get 1% for each turn one of your units is stationed in a fort.

I do also like the idea of swapping them out each game. So maybe one game exploration is build 2 caravels, and another game it ends up being 2 frigates. It would be even more cool if you didn't discover which it was until you could research it. That wouldn't force every game to the same path, and might be fun if certain paths were easier in some games than others.

 

[stinkubus]

LOL those 80s heart-throbs are bringing on a HEAT WAVE.

They really should've just called this show, "The Breakfast Club in Adulthood," and then this debate would be moot

 

[Aussie_Lurker]

As a roleplayer, I absolutely love them, & are a feature I've been crying out for since about Civ3. Also as a roleplayer, I try to have the eurekas & inspirations occur in an organic way, rather than actively pursuing them.....so they aren't nearly as repetitive for me. It would be nice though, in the expansion, if the various ages (Dark, Golden, Heroic) were to impact on either the chance and/or impact of these events.

 

[Aussie_Lurker]

Oh, & I do think that base research costs should be boosted slightly, as I feel current tech costs don't allow for the effect of eurekas & inspirations.

 

[Aussie_Lurker]

I do like people's ideas here, though. Maybe have a handful of Eurekas & Inspirations that will always be in the game, & will always trigger the same way (seafaring, iron working, masonry), whilst having the others cropping up randomly and/or swapping out their inspiration between games.

 

[Archon_Wing]

The main problem is the game's pace seems to be balanced without them but they become needed to catch up to the ai.

Perhaps there should be more techs without them but they cost less.

 

[dagriggstar]

Something I'm not sure has been mentioned yet is their potential to act as like a catch-up or rubber band mechanism. For instance, the civic defensive tactics is key (imo anyway) since it is a prerequisite for 3 civics in the next column (civil service, naval tradition, feudalism). It's inspiration is for another civ to declare war on you, something that is significantly more likely to happen if you are (essentially) losing the game.

 

[VTMatt]

I like the system, though I'd like to see some changes to exactly how it's implemented. Perhaps dropping the %boost, and adding a second possible Eureka/Inspiration to some or all would be better. I try to play efficiently, but sometimes feel pigeon-holed into doing things I otherwise have no incentive to do. I appreciate the ones like Feudalism, having a lot of farms makes sense to trigger a Feudalism bonus, the context is there, and it's something I don't feel as though I'm ONLY doing to achieve the boost. I'd like to see some options though, either do X or Y to trigger the Eureka/Inspiration (one or the other, not both), it'd allow you to 'customize' your path depending on civ, intended victory, situation, etc, while still allowing the strategic play of boosting civics.

For example: Stirrups: Have Feudalism OR create 5 mounted units
Ballistics: 2 forts in your territory OR 7 kills with ranged units
Replaceable Parts: 3 Musketmen OR build 2 Industrial Zones

I see less room for multiple boosts on early era tech/civics, but especially on those later ones, having a couple ways to trigger boosts would be nice!