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Eureka system - anyone else started to dislike it?

Discussion in 'Civ6 - General Discussions' started by Art Morte, Dec 7, 2017.

  1. Disgustipated

    Disgustipated Deity

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    I'm okay with it. I don't dislike it, but neither do I think it's the greatest thing since sliced bread. Sliced bread being friggin' awesome.

    I feel like I often can't wait to get Eurekas, especially when wonders are on the line. I still can't resist wonders like Potala palace (though I didn't get it my last game), Forbidden City, and Big Ben. I like the extra military policy one, but the AI usually gets that one. But it is so sweet when I get all four. Point is I still put a high priority on getting a good research rate and having enough campus districts appropriate for my difficulty level. I don't aim for fastest victories, I just aim to have fun. I'm not sure what my Eureka rate is, maybe around 60%. Sometimes I have barbarians turned off, and those Eurekas/inspirations are impossible to get.
     
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  2. WillowBrook

    WillowBrook Lurker

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    If they want to adjust the current system without (in my view) bigger changes such as those I and other have suggested, this is an excellent idea of how to do it. :goodjob:
     
  3. Guandao

    Guandao Rajah of Minyue and Langkasuka

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    I don't mind the Eureka system. I often don't get many of them in time, same goes for Civic inspirations.

    Sometimes, they don't make sense to me. Why would having three Privateers trigger the Eureka for Electricity?
     
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  4. Disgustipated

    Disgustipated Deity

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    Yeah I don't like the electricity ones. Factories make more sense, but for some reason that gives the inspiration for class struggle. Factories need power, so factories should give the inspiration for electricity.
     
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  5. shaglio

    shaglio The Prince of Dorkness

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    If you're min/maxing you really shouldn't complain about repetitive game-play. That's what min/maxing is all about: finding the optimal path to victory. Then you apply that optimal path to consecutive games and naturally it's going to become repetitive. That's a consequence of min/maxing in any game, not just the Eureka system in Civ 6.
     
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  6. Scaramanga

    Scaramanga Brickhead

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    Maybe has something to do with the weather phenomenon St. Elmo's Fire.
     
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  7. Art Morte

    Art Morte Prince

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    Okay, you know, that's a fair point, but I think the eureka system in Civ6 encourages you a bit too much to do that min/maxing. Too many instances in the game where I'd feel stupid to ignore them - and I don't like feeling stupid.
     
  8. SammyKhalifa

    SammyKhalifa Deity

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    It makes sense for class struggle too though.
     
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  9. stinkubus

    stinkubus Emperor

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  10. shaglio

    shaglio The Prince of Dorkness

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    I hear ya. As others have said, maybe toning it down would help make it feel less mandatory. Especially if the Research costs are going up in the expansion (I think somebody discovered that from one of the screenshots). If the number of beakers goes up, that 50% is going to be even more beneficial.
     
  11. clapyourhands

    clapyourhands Prince

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    As many have already said before increasing tech costs inherently makes Eurekas more valuable, which IMO is a good thing if they do a significant balance pass on the existing ones.

    I think Eurekas should be difficult enough to achieve that they aren't even worth going for unless the tech is directly relevant to your immediate goals. The opportunity cost of going for a Eureka should be more than the number of turns saved unless the behavior needed to trigger the Eureka was similar to what you were going to do already. I think the coastal city one is a good implementation, in that you wouldn't found a city on the coast just for Sailing because coasts are usually suboptimal, but if you were already planning on an early coastal city, the Eureka saves time on an immediately valuable tech; there is no opportunity cost because you were going to found a city by the sea anyways. If Eurekas are not worth going out of your way to min-max for but instead accentuate parts of your strategy that are important and/or influenced by your surroundings, it would go a long way to making games more unique. This means changing the easier Eurekas into something that actually requires a commitment beyond standard gameplay; everyone builds a Trader and makes a trade route, but not everyone would necessarily make an external route rather than an internal one or builds two Traders before Currency unless trading is going to be an important part of their strategy, and it's those players that would find it worth it to get the Eureka for that tech. Same goes for the military bonuses unless you're planning to do some early warfare (I know that's the plan for most players anyways, but that's an issue with game balance and not Eurekas).
     
  12. Scaramanga

    Scaramanga Brickhead

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    I said weather phenomenon not cultural phenomenon.
     
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  13. UWHabs

    UWHabs Deity

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    The main thing I don't like is that some are too simply to abuse. For example, the 2 forts. To me, it simply works out that I'd usually just buy an engineer and build my 2 forts for the eureka, since that's a great trade of money to science normally.

    I like the idea above about having eurekas be more about building up to them. So if each mine gave 1/6 of the bonus to apprenticeship up to a max of the 50% boost, that would be neat. The forts one would be something like you get 1% for each turn one of your units is stationed in a fort.

    I do also like the idea of swapping them out each game. So maybe one game exploration is build 2 caravels, and another game it ends up being 2 frigates. It would be even more cool if you didn't discover which it was until you could research it. That wouldn't force every game to the same path, and might be fun if certain paths were easier in some games than others.
     
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  14. stinkubus

    stinkubus Emperor

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    LOL those 80s heart-throbs are bringing on a HEAT WAVE.

    They really should've just called this show, "The Breakfast Club in Adulthood," and then this debate would be moot :)
     
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  15. Aussie_Lurker

    Aussie_Lurker Deity

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    As a roleplayer, I absolutely love them, & are a feature I've been crying out for since about Civ3. Also as a roleplayer, I try to have the eurekas & inspirations occur in an organic way, rather than actively pursuing them.....so they aren't nearly as repetitive for me. It would be nice though, in the expansion, if the various ages (Dark, Golden, Heroic) were to impact on either the chance and/or impact of these events.
     
  16. Aussie_Lurker

    Aussie_Lurker Deity

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    Oh, & I do think that base research costs should be boosted slightly, as I feel current tech costs don't allow for the effect of eurekas & inspirations.
     
  17. Aussie_Lurker

    Aussie_Lurker Deity

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    I do like people's ideas here, though. Maybe have a handful of Eurekas & Inspirations that will always be in the game, & will always trigger the same way (seafaring, iron working, masonry), whilst having the others cropping up randomly and/or swapping out their inspiration between games.
     
  18. Archon_Wing

    Archon_Wing Vote for me or die

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    The main problem is the game's pace seems to be balanced without them but they become needed to catch up to the ai.

    Perhaps there should be more techs without them but they cost less.
     
  19. dagriggstar

    dagriggstar King

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    Something I'm not sure has been mentioned yet is their potential to act as like a catch-up or rubber band mechanism. For instance, the civic defensive tactics is key (imo anyway) since it is a prerequisite for 3 civics in the next column (civil service, naval tradition, feudalism). It's inspiration is for another civ to declare war on you, something that is significantly more likely to happen if you are (essentially) losing the game.
     
  20. VTMatt

    VTMatt Chieftain

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    I like the system, though I'd like to see some changes to exactly how it's implemented. Perhaps dropping the %boost, and adding a second possible Eureka/Inspiration to some or all would be better. I try to play efficiently, but sometimes feel pigeon-holed into doing things I otherwise have no incentive to do. I appreciate the ones like Feudalism, having a lot of farms makes sense to trigger a Feudalism bonus, the context is there, and it's something I don't feel as though I'm ONLY doing to achieve the boost. I'd like to see some options though, either do X or Y to trigger the Eureka/Inspiration (one or the other, not both), it'd allow you to 'customize' your path depending on civ, intended victory, situation, etc, while still allowing the strategic play of boosting civics.

    For example: Stirrups: Have Feudalism OR create 5 mounted units
    Ballistics: 2 forts in your territory OR 7 kills with ranged units
    Replaceable Parts: 3 Musketmen OR build 2 Industrial Zones

    I see less room for multiple boosts on early era tech/civics, but especially on those later ones, having a couple ways to trigger boosts would be nice!
     
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