Eureka system - anyone else started to dislike it?

[Art Morte]

At first I thought it was a cool mechanic that gave you opportunities to advance faster in the tech and culture trees.

But I've played the game almost 500 hours now and I've started to dislike the eureka system. The 50% boost is so powerful that you should try to get them whenever you can - but I've started to feel like the eurekas direct my decision-making too much. Making it repetitive in my games, which has started to feel boring, especially in some parts of the trees.

Does anyone else share my dislike of the eureka system?

 

[Ma2ge]

Exactly my opinion. There are some mods to change that though. Check out "Real Eurekas" or "25% Eurekas and Inspirations" for example.

 

[bbbt]

I'm pretty ambivalent to them: I play on emperor and mostly ignore them and it hasn't really been a big impediment (though that might change with the expansion). I might prioritize one tech over another if I know I'm going to hit a eureka before that, but I don't do anything to complete eurekas I wasn't going to do anyways, and I don't do the 'switch half way through researching' technique.

 

[masda_gib]

No, I still like it.
50% sound much but if researching a tech or civic takes 8-10 rounds a eureka saves you 5 turns. If you haven't planned for that eureka, fullfilling it might take longer than just researching the tech/civic.
In my last game I researched "Exploration" and had only one Caravel. Building a second one would have taken longer than just researching the civic completely.

 

[stealth_nsk]

Getting eurekas is opposed for beelining. At emperor and up you just can't afford being guided by eurekas too much.

 

[Drakul]

Eurekas sholud be about 15-20% at max. They should give you a modest boost insted like this where they almost give you a free tech.

 

[SammyKhalifa]

At first I thought it was a cool mechanic that gave you opportunities to advance faster in the tech and culture trees.

But I've played the game almost 500 hours now and I've started to dislike the eureka system. The 50% boost is so powerful that you should try to get them whenever you can - but I've started to feel like the eurekas direct my decision-making too much. Making it repetitive in my games, which has started to feel boring, especially in some parts of the trees.

Does anyone else share my dislike of the eureka system?

I am not sure it's much different than the "optimal" opening build sequences of any previous civ game.

 

[Rosty K]

Eurekas sholud be about 15-20% at max. They should give you a modest boost insted like this where they almost give you a free tech.

In that case multiple eurekas for one tech should be possible.

I like the mechanic generally. It might get a bit repetitive once you've learned it, so they could be made less straight, e.g. multiple ways to get the same eureka should be possible, I think. Or, they shouldn't be given right there once you complete the requirements, but with probability (something like EU events). The probability rises with each other civ that discovers the tech, so you might even get an eureka without making the requirements if everybody else has the tech, or if you have a trade route to someone who has the tech, etc... Lots of possibilities

 

[Amrunril]

I think Eurekas are a great system, and toning down the percentage would be a mistake. The point of Eurekas is to be a powerful bonus for researching techs that your civ development supports, and a smaller bonus wouldn't accomplish that goal as effectively or provide the same excitement. I do think, though, that base tech costs need to be increased a bit to account for the prevalence of Eurekas and that Eurekas should be harder to get. You should get Eurekas for researching tech that follow from your civ's main focuses or fit exceptionally well with it terrain. You shouldn't be able to get the overwhelming majority by doing a bit of everything.

 

[SammyKhalifa]

In that case multiple eurekas for one tech should be possible.

I like the mechanic generally. It might get a bit repetitive once you've learned it, so they could be made less straight, e.g. multiple ways to get the same eureka should be possible, I think. Or, they shouldn't be given right there once you complete the requirements, but with probability (something like EU events). The probability rises with each other civ that discovers the tech, so you might even get an eureka without making the requirements if everybody else has the tech, or if you have a trade route to someone who has the tech, etc... Lots of possibilities

I think part of the repetitiveness is our tendencies to try to work it to fulfill our goals instead of working with that we do or what the map gives us (which is understandable).

Instead of looking at it as "our civ has made a stone quarry so naturally from that we're going to learn about and develop masonry" or how living by the sea makes your people naturally curious about the ocean, we tend to go "I want currency ASAP so I am going trader" or whatever.

The original idea comes from the desire for civs to organically grow out of whatever environment it's in, which I think is an awesome idea. People use it as a stepping stone for their strategies which is fine too.

 

[KnightModern]

eureka is fine

the problem IMO is research time in general, especially in late game

 

[Softly]

I love the eureka system, as it gives you short term goals. I do think that they should tone it down to 30%. As it stands it is worth it many times to go completely out of your way just for the sake of the eureka. Every game I build a military engineer to make two forts I'm never going to use just for the eureka.

What would make the game much more interesting would be to have each tech/civic have two possible eurekas/inspirations. When the game loads only one of the two is randomly chosen though. So for irrigation you could get "farm a resource" or you could get "build a granary". For early empire you could get "Grow your civ to at least 6 population" or you could get "found a second city". This would stop the game from getting too repetitive and keep you thinking on your feet.

 

[Art Morte]

Exactly my opinion. There are some mods to change that though. Check out "Real Eurekas" or "25% Eurekas and Inspirations" for example.

Interesting. I almost wrote in the op that I'd like eurekas to be 25%. I'll check out that mod, thanks.

 

[SammyKhalifa]

I love the eureka system, as it gives you short term goals. I do think that they should tone it down to 30%. As it stands it is worth it many times to go completely out of your way just for the sake of the eureka. Every game I build a military engineer to make two forts I'm never going to use just for the eureka.

What would make the game much more interesting would be to have each tech/civic have two possible eurekas/inspirations. When the game loads only one of the two is randomly chosen though. So for irrigation you could get "farm a resource" or you could get "build a granary". For early empire you could get "Grow your civ to at least 6 population" or you could get "found a second city". This would stop the game from getting too repetitive and keep you thinking on your feet.

The problem is that some people rage against randomness like that (I'm fine with it).

There are definitely more things they could do with it, but I think it's a good start.

 

[UncivilizedGuy]

I sort of feel the same way. But I don't think toning them down is the answer. Making Eurekas harder to get would be a better solution in my opinion. They should be just hard enough to get that it doesn't direct your decision making. They should feel more like a bonus. Many of the Eurekas are way too easy to get. I get half of them without making any effort. I'm thinking about making a mod for this.

 

[Hakan-i Cihan]

I also do think that 50% boost is too much. But cutting it too much would make it maybe easy to ignore and just get the boost randomly and not by planning. The main reason of the boost system was to make the best out of your starting area and plan as such, or as SammyKhalifa has stated it:

The original idea comes from the desire for civs to organically grow out of whatever environment it's in, which I think is an awesome idea. People use it as a stepping stone for their strategies which is fine too.

My suggestion would be a diminishing boost for techs/civics in each column. So the first eureka for a tech from a column will get the max boost of 50%, second one 40%, the third 30% and so on. This will make boosts that are easier to get from your starting area more influential to your playstyle and the other ones less important. Though I am not sure if it would work as intended.

I do also like the idea of Softly with a possible alternative eureka/inspiration for every tech/civic chosen randomly at start.

 

[Arent11]

At first I thought it was a cool mechanic that gave you opportunities to advance faster in the tech and culture trees.

But I've played the game almost 500 hours now and I've started to dislike the eureka system. The 50% boost is so powerful that you should try to get them whenever you can - but I've started to feel like the eurekas direct my decision-making too much. Making it repetitive in my games, which has started to feel boring, especially in some parts of the trees.

Does anyone else share my dislike of the eureka system?

(1) You get Eurekas too often. You should just have a small chance to get them (30%) so that you are actually happy about them
(2) The conditions for Eurekas are too specific, leading to a chain of events you have to trigger every single game. They should be broader & instead combined with a random chance aka (1)

In addition:

(3) You should be able to trade eurekas. Really, tech trade is one of the most interesting things in coop play. To entirely abolish it makes playing with your friends much less fun.

 

[SammyKhalifa]

Yeah, harder to get so it's not worth your while to go out of your way to get them--maybe even more specific. And MORE powerful (not less).

My tribe grew up living near the ocean so we naturally grew to become a seafaring people.

 

[UncivilizedGuy]

Yeah, harder to get so it's not worth your while to go out of your way to get them--maybe even more specific. And MORE powerful (not less).

My tribe grew up living near the ocean so we naturally grew to become a seafaring people.

Harder to get but more powerful. I like that idea. I think I know what my next mod is.

 

[WillowBrook]

I love the system. But as others have said, it gets repetitive after several dozen games. I also use the 8 ages of pace mod to deal with the insane late-game pace.

I would like there to be 3 or 4 possible boosts for each tech/civic, with two showing up in each game. Getting one would give 30%. The second, 20%. After a certain point, you could also trade boosts.