Evil Great People

GiuseppeIII

The Third Giuseppe
Joined
Jul 12, 2011
Messages
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Location
Chicago IL
If you have enough crim or pollution you could get an evil great person. They could be a mobster a terrorist murderer and a bunch of other things. Also. UI,dings like the assassins den would give you evil great person points. Evil great people would pop up like regular great people but after that eh would go around your civ and do something bad. Ex monster could increase crime permanently in one of your cities by a lot. Terrorist could Mae one of your cities unhappy. Murderer could decrease the population of one of your cities. Besides doing this they could also degrade your relationship with other civs. Just an idea:crazyeye:
 
I have a distant project that would be something like this - Anti-Great People... don't want to say much more because its something I really have quite thought out but don't want to do it before a number of other modding steps are in place.
 
The fact that Kim Philby is on the great spy name list shows that evil great people DO exist :)

Don't know who that is? Well, let's just say if Dante's Inferno was written nowadays, the 9th circle of hell would have four honoured guests (Judas, Cassius, Brutus, and Philby).
 
The fact that Kim Philby is on the great spy name list shows that evil great people DO exist :)

Don't know who that is? Well, let's just say if Dante's Inferno was written nowadays, the 9th circle of hell would have four honoured guests (Judas, Cassius, Brutus, and Philby).

Are you saying all double agents are evil? Or are you attributing evilness to not-being-on-my-side?
 
The fact that Kim Philby is on the great spy name list shows that evil great people DO exist :)

Don't know who that is? Well, let's just say if Dante's Inferno was written nowadays, the 9th circle of hell would have four honoured guests (Judas, Cassius, Brutus, and Philby).

I was just watching a TV miniseries on DVD about the CIA in the 50s and the Philby defection, it's really interesting. And, it means that I know what you are talking about. But, back on topic, I think that the idea of anti-great people would cause a couple issues.

  1. How would you remove them? Currently you can never remove a GPP specialist, aside from the Assassination mission. Would there be a mechanism for removing them/expelling them?
  2. Does the civ engine even support two seperate global GPP counters?
 
They wouldn't turn into specialists ( even though I guess they could ) they just go around to a spot in your empire and create something bad. You could probably catch them somehow to with a police man or something like that
 
Why playing "evil" must be bad? It's a choice... You wont have "Great People" for your civ, you will have "Anti/Evil Great People" four others civ
I think more about a Lyssenko as an anti-Great Scientist, able to build a building with a good malus in science in city of other civs. Or a Great Murderer, able to build a Special building "House of serial-killer"...

So, having them wont boost your civ, but you will send nasty thing to your ennemies (and yes, only one GPP bar with this idea)
 
The basic question is: would villains be controlled by you or somebody else?
Let's follow the track "controlled by somebody else" a bit more:

If they are controlled by somebody else, by whom? Maybe they are barbarians?
And: are they visible, or are they hidden units?

If they area barbarians: What's their strategy? They will rarely attack a city, right? I'd rather think they do things like spies. So they would be something like a Great Spy in barbarian hands. Stealing money seems reasonable for a great thief. Poisoning water for a terrorist.

Maybe you can bribe/hire them to work for you, but maybe they will turn out to do their own thing.

Instead of collecting villain-points it might also be possible to assign GPP or GGP to the barbarians.

just my 0.02$...
 
So what your saying in today's language, a Company/Corporation called the CIA/MI5,6, etc?

But back in ancient times and above till now, how could that be handled, and called etc?? But if TB already has stuff he wanted to do, can you please, give an ETA, on just a "taste" of what your going to do??
 
The basic question is: would villains be controlled by you or somebody else?
Let's follow the track "controlled by somebody else" a bit more:

If they are controlled by somebody else, by whom? Maybe they are barbarians?
And: are they visible, or are they hidden units?

If they area barbarians: What's their strategy? They will rarely attack a city, right? I'd rather think they do things like spies. So they would be something like a Great Spy in barbarian hands. Stealing money seems reasonable for a great thief. Poisoning water for a terrorist.

Maybe you can bribe/hire them to work for you, but maybe they will turn out to do their own thing.
The problem woul be the AI, then. And make the villain of Civ A wont attck Civ B (or as collateral damage).
But I dont really like this idea, playing "Evil" is a way of playing like another. If you have penality by playing like this, you will finish by having the "good way to play", the only effective one
 
@GiuseppeIII :thumbsup: cool idea

Thanks

The basic question is: would villains be controlled by you or somebody else?
Let's follow the track "controlled by somebody else" a bit more:

If they are controlled by somebody else, by whom? Maybe they are barbarians?
And: are they visible, or are they hidden units?

If they area barbarians: What's their strategy? They will rarely attack a city, right? I'd rather think they do things like spies. So they would be something like a Great Spy in barbarian hands. Stealing money seems reasonable for a great thief. Poisoning water for a terrorist.

Maybe you can bribe/hire them to work for you, but maybe they will turn out to do their own thing.

Instead of collecting villain-points it might also be possible to assign GPP or GGP to the barbarians.

just my 0.02$...

I was thinking maybe have an entire new AI system for them but that seems a bit too big of a lofty task. So about program some mission to the barbarian AI so when a country gets the evil great person it would be used appropriately
 
Ok.

I didn't want to let the cat out of the bag on this secret eventual project I had in mind here but since the proposal concept has grown to this point and I've been asked to explain, here's what I have envisioned (with some help from my wife getting the ball rolling with a more fundamental idea to get started):

1) A GLOBAL great person birth counter that compiles all GP pts from every city each player owns tracks the birth of Anti-Great People. (I was waiting until I'd developed some UI skills to create this bar and fit it in nicely.)

2) These Anti-Great People are fully in your control and are desirable to get due to the heinous things they can do to your opponents.

3) They can all create Dark Ages for targeted opponents much as our current GPs may start a golden age for us.

4) They can all join opponent cities to create a horrific permanent drag on the cities abilities corresponding to the bonuses you'd get from settling a positive GP in one of yours.

5) Every type of great person gets an Anti-Type defined:
  • Great Prophet: Great Heretic - capable of eradicating a religious wonder or holy city or of performing a mission that removes a chosen religion from x # of cities in the nation its carried out in. Potentially capable of generating a 'Cult' a negative religion that no nation wants in its borders (would really make us use those inquisitor units!) but would naturally spread via the multiple religion spread option.

  • Great Engineer: Great Demolishionist(or even Great Terrorist) - Can destroy an opponent's wonder, or completely tear apart every production bonus building and all current production in a target city.

  • Great Scientist: Great Deceiver - Can actually remove a recently learned tech from an opponent's knowledge. Can steal a tech from another civ without any espionage expense. Can build a School of Dissent (opposite of the Academy) in an enemy civ's city.

  • Great Merchant: Great Criminal - Can found Organized Crime 'corporations' (the headquarters is a benefit mostly though increases crime but the spreading is mostly for your opponent's cities to ruin them from within - the new Lawyer unit would work very nicely with this!) Can perform Great Heist missions that steal huge lots of money from opponents. Can crash a Corporation, taking out the Headquarters (which leads to a huge deficit in cost vs benefit for the nation that normally has that Headquarters - it should be re-foundable though and when it returns, all the previously spread outlets still remain. So you can use a Great Criminal/Great Merchant (or whatever is necessary to found the corp) one-two punch to steal the headquarters of an opponent's Corporation.

  • Great Artist: Great Revolutionary - Can be used to potentially force a split in an opponent's nation with a mechanism that works regardless of Rev on or off. Can greatly reduce a city's culture volume, and can purge your nation of all cultural overlap from a targeted source. Can create a long lasting anarchy in a target city.

  • Great Doctor: Great Diseased - Can start an outbreak of a horrendous new disease. There's a lot of ways to vary that. Can reduce a plot to wasteland.

6) The type of Anti-Great Person that would be generated would correspond to the compiled definition of Global GP pts weighting the random result just as it does for a normal GP being birthed from a given city and would reflect the type accordingly.

I had intended to first generate a few new types of GPs too before getting to this project. It does require some intensive AI work, mission development, UI interaction, mathematical compilations in the dll and unit design. As a result, I was leaving it until I had a pretty good mastery of all subjects. But since its been brought out into the open, if the team wants to start trying to develop this, I'm all for it. I just also figured we had a lot of other things to address of a more important nature first.
 
Wow that looks really cool thunderbird a lot better then what I had envisioned. Would be cool to get that out soon or soonish at least but I understand you guys have ATON of other stuff to do for c2c
 
When I say Global I should probably say National rather than 'by city'. It would represent the sum total of all gp pts generated in all your cities making even gp pts generated in cities that will never normally spawn a great person 'matter'.
 
[Awesome]

Could there be buildings that generate great villain points without great person points? I was just thinking of Mad Scientists' Castles, seems like the perfect place for their creation. Crime could also play a part, either your opponent's crime generating a great traitor to serve you, or yours causing a genius criminal to rise through the ranks.

Anyway, deal with the important mod stuff first, we can get back to this later when most of the other cool ideas in the pipeline have been implemented.
 
I like this idea much but i afraid that this will be simple annoying going from city to city to look that someone add a negative person building city to it.

Another thing. Dark Ages was considered in AND times and many plaers dont like it so it was removed.

I like idea but it must be optional

EDIT

I dont think that we need another type of GP points (turn times)
If all EVIL GP are under you control and they cover all GP types simple add them as option to GP
Player will decide what he want to do with his ex: Great Scientist - add to his own city to boost science
or make him GReat Deciver and slow down Enemies science

Idea
Lets make this negative buildings/specialist effect invisible in city UI until player will have more espionage poits than rival that cause it
It will be funny to find out after some time that you have 3 negative scientists in your city :D
It should be see in espionage screen as threats.

It will make espionage points more important (now i always ignore them)
 
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