EX? - War? What is it good for?

Ex can read and download the files, and will pass his reports and saves to me to post. He just wound up in an argument with a moderator; the details don't matter.

I'd be perfectly happy with a diplomatic win, and it'd fit the theme of the game nicely. No need to play it out through space, since that's a foregone conclusion. Only caveat about diplomatic is that it's likely that BOTH Persia and Babylon will be above the 25%-population or 25%-territory thresholds to be eligible for the election; and if that happens we'd need both Zulu's and Germany's votes to win, but we can probably do that.

Domination wouldn't be the same as Epic 13 at all; in 13 everybody still did plenty of attacking with the military, just not against cities. We're playing no attacking ever, and domination just wouldn't happen like that.

editing in: EX has given me the got-it for this turn and is playing.
 
It's been three days. How's Ex' turn coming along?

Regarding domination win, for some reason I thought propaganda was allowed for this game. After consulting page one, I found out that it wasn't allowed. That takes domination off the table.
 
Here's Ex's turn:

0 - MM Sri Lanka to grow. Courthouse rushed.

1 - Calcutta, making infantry, without a barracks? That is promptly fixed. Battlefield Med completes.

2 -

3 - Nothing really, but I made a small mistake: I moved our galleon into Zulu territory. It slipped my mind, and I feel rather foolish breaking my own variant rule :crazyeye:. Luckily, the Zulu make no demands at all, and the ship leaves peacefully the following turn.

4 - We discover Refining, start research on Steel. 4 turns at 70%. Whoever it was that decided to settle Jaipur - THANK YOU. One of the only two oil resources has been squeezed into its cultural radius. I keep it unhooked, and will soon put a defender there.

5 - No more worker jobs needed... no more cities need pop-pumping... nothing to do :(. Persia has Communism, but of course, guards it with it's life :lol:.

(I) - Whoa, deja-va from EXII. Persia comes asking for an MPP... this is creepy. I decline, of course.

6 - Every city is now defended by at least on infantry. I just realized that we don't need any external income to continue researching at 4 turns a pop. Intriguing...

7 - The Zulu are now industrious.

*T-hawk's note - no idea what he means here :confused:

8 - We discover Steel. Research to Combustion - 4 turns @ 80%. Communism+Wines+39gpt from Persia for Electricity. Nothing to Babylon - they have nothing to offer. Lets see if Persia sells it. Medicine to Zululanbd for 17gpt, 21g, WM (all they have).

(I) - Silks deal with Babylon ends. How the hell did we get Hammi to pay 47gpt for Ivory??? Well, now he won't accept anythig but tech: I sell him Electricity for Silks, 36gpt, 2g.

*T-hawk's note: I think Hammi had been paying 47gpt for Ivory plus a tech.

9 - Ivory to Baylon for WM, 12gpt, 13g. We are at a -3 deficit - will sell whichever tech the AI is researching. Hey, maybe Mesoy wasn't so wrong in culture-pumping Pune: Tenochtitlan flips to us! A size 11 city! Wow! However, it is extremely unhappy and will have to starve a little to make ends meet. A temple is ordered up pronto.

*T-hawk's note: WOW. I did a double-take, thinking it was the Aztecs' capital, but the Zulu had it of course.

10 - Ah damn, Delhi suffers global warming - two desert tiles irrigated to keep Delhi level. Some disbanding of obsolete units and infantry to speed up projects in various cities.

Notes: There is a galleon on the way to Jaipur to defend it and its oil. Two workers now stand on the oil resource, it is the next player's choice whether to hook it up or not (Combustion comes in next turn). I reccomend trading a tech next turn to increase revenues - I suggest Sanitation. I can't be positive, but from experience and the flucuating AI offers for it, I'd say thats the tech they are researching. I haven't started any Police Stations yet, if it is felt they are necessary be my guest.

As for victory type, UN is good for me. Going for SS win would just be more time, the only way we'd lose that way is if we lacked Uranium. Good luck.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads2/chandragupta-1270ad.zip
 
0) 1265 AD

Inherited turn, Our nation looks good, with rails covering our land, and
infantries fortified in our cities.

Tenochtilan flipped, good :). I rush the temple there to continue the culture
war. Might as well go all the way now.

Checking our diplomatic situations, we have ROP with everyone, so there is no
need to worry about sending units through their land. Persia has A LOT of gpt
to offer -- 184 to be exact. That's after them paying us 39 gpt +wines three
turns ago. We can sell Sanitation to them for only 43 gpt. They are definitely
researching it. Additionally, we can fetch 141 gpt with Scientific Method, or
all of their money with Replacable Parts. Normally, what I do at this stage is
to see if we can maintain 4 turn research, and only broker techs around if we
need further income to maintain max research rate. Here, we are one turn away
from finishing Combustion. So I will wait for one turn and see what our
situation is before brokering.

City MM: Going through our cities, where ever I find overlaps, I give the over
lapped tile to the city closest to our capital or FP. The lone exception to
this is where Lahore gets to keep one desert tile that it shares with Ganges
because it needs the shield to do Inf. in two. Frankfurt is placed on high
food. It will still finish the Galleon is one turn. Hamburg needs a police
station, and starts one.

Vetos :) : The factory in Punjab and Jaipur are vetoed. No sense in paying 3
gpt of upkeep for 6 extra shields. We're better off building stuff in those
cities by disbanding units, and we have a lot of obsolete units to disband.
Punjab is switched to a University, and Jaipur to Cathedral.

On a similar note, I wake four of our muskets and send them on a boat journey
to the Zulu island, where they will help build the grand cathedral of
Tenochtilan.

One last thing I did, I wake all of our active workers, build three tiles of
rails in Babs territory. Now we can reinforce Jaipur and it oil fields in one
turn :) . And I do just that, pulling a few Inf. units away from the German
border patrol.

1) 1270 AD

Many cities finishes their project on this turn. Ganges finishes Colossum,
starts a barrack. Most cities that produced an Inf. is set to another Inf.
Chittagong finishes Hospital and starts a granary -- we actually need these
things now. Frankfurt start on a police station.

A few worker projects here and there. I irrigated over the mines at
Chittagong since it has finished its hospital. Bombay also gets more
irrigation so that it can take over some of Frankfurt's tiles. Ganges, mean
while, sees its country side mined into oblivion.

A few more muskets are sacrificed at Karachi to build the University. Karachi
is one of cities that needs a granary. I want to squeeze in the Granary and
the university before Karachi grows to 14.

We can get Mass production in 4 at 70% science, earning 188 gpt in the
process. If I broker Sanitation now, it would help the Persians getting it
perhaps two turns sooner. It would not help us at all. The only reason that I
can see for doing it, is so that the 18 gpt that the Babylonians have will
not fall into Persian hands. Not worth it in my opinion, so I hold off.


2) 1275 AD

Gordium finishes an infantry. It's optimum size is 10, so I decide to skim a
settler off of it (it's currently at size 12, hiring two taxmen).

Ganges' optium shield output is 80, so I set it to build cavs for the sole
purpose of disbanding. The barrack of Ganges is also sold.

There are now officially no more pikemen left in our empire. In related news,
Punjab's University will complete next turn.

3) 1280 AD

Punjab finishes University, starts Hospital. The first Ganges calvary
division immediately helps shave 4 turns off of the ETC.

Near Chittagong, another boat load of infantries set sail for Zululand.

This turn, the worker focus is Madras, I want to grow it to size 14.

There is now a settler in Bombay, keeping the war elephant company.

The Persians still haven't gotten Sanitation yet. The price has now dropped
to 13 gpt. It is taking them at least 7 turns to research even at 2nd civ
price.

4) 1285 AD

Lahore finishes its courthouse. It's maximum shield output is only 42 per
turn. So I'm having it producing cavs, once again, only for disbanding
purposes. We have enough cities cranking infantries already.

As more Infantries are being produced, more musket are getting the axe.

The Persians finally get Sanitation this turn. Babs also has it. I don't
know what they traded to get it though, since they still have the same
amount of gpt to offer.

5) 1290 AD

Mass production comes in, Motorized Transport in 4, at +105 gpt.

More MM madness, I decided to shrink Madras back down to 13 again. Lahore
gets one of Madras' tile, so that and our capital can be at size 20. Yeah,
I am a little bored.

6) 1295 AD

Our reinforcement finally arrives at Tenochitilan. The city is now secure.
Three muskets are sacrificed, and the rest of the cathedral is rushed
with 180 cash.

7) 1300 AD

Nothing much happening, more reinforcements arrive on the Zulu island.

8) 1305 AD

A few more muskets disbanded in Tenochitilan, library rushed for 76 gold.
Two more muskets disbanded in New Delhi, cathedral rushed for 20 some odd
gold.

9) 1310 AD
Motorized Transport comes in, Flight in 4, at -26 gpt. Don't worry, our
treasury stands at 4.9K.

Lux deal with the Zulus is renegotiated. We give them Communism and Spice
for Dye and all of their money (28 gpt + 21 cash).

A few banks and police stations also completes on this turn. Along with
the trade deal, our income is just about even.

The Persians are researching Replacable Parts. Let them do it themselves.
We will need to renew a few lux deals on Erik's 7th turn, we can throw
them a tech at that time.

10) 1315 AD

New Delhi's library is rushed after a few more units are disbanded. I
had sent two native workers onto the Zulu island. I envision them to
finish a military rail net in our Zulu holdings first, then perhaps join
into New Delhi to bring it up to WLTKD. Tenochtitlan has enough culture
buildings to stay ahead of the Zulu cities around it. There is still
the University left to build, but I think we're okay for now. Of course,
Erik is free to veto any of my build choices on that island.

Our ships were mostly used to ferry troops to the Zulu holdings. There are
now two more ships in Sri Lanka island's general area. That was going to
be my next area to help with unit disband.

All of our workers are fortified near the capital. None of them are
automated.

With all of that said, there really isn't much left to do in this game.
Good luck to the next leader.

Upnext: Erik Mesoy

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads2/Chandragupta-1315AD.zip
 
I guess my expenditures on ZI werent that bad, were they?
What you need for that is military and culture. With enough military, you dont even need culture.
But then, can military flip cities under this variant? Just asking :D .

I think Pune paid off fairly well.
 
But what did we really get out of the flips?

If you add up the cost per turn for the building upkeeps, plus the cost per turn for those garrison units, minus the amount of tax and science income that we're actually getting out of those cities, you will find that those cities are costing our civ 20-30 gold per turn. In a more competitive game, that amount of money could make a difference.

Anyhow, I did continue to spend units and cash there during my turns, because we did have the units and the cash to spare, and because it was fun. Without having Tenochtilan to worry about, there really was nothing else to do. Now, it would be so boring to just hit the space bar 10 times, wouldn't it? :)
 
Well... they might be costing us 2-30 gold per turn. How much is their lack costing the zulu?
 
Notes taken:
I borrowed about 3000 to rushbuild stuff on Pune. j/k :biggrin: .
Veto Worker in Tenoctitlan, started Courthouse. I have never before seen +0 per turn after 1000 BC. Culture status on ZUlu Island, ZI: Tenochtitlan has LESS than tlaxcala, you can see it on the second ring tiles. New delhi is behind texcoco and ulundi but ahead of teotihuacan.
1: infantry bult here and there. Is there anything to build anymore? Hurried courthouse in tenoctitlan for something like 300 gold.
2: The goal is 3 infantry in each city, more in borders or pressed cities, right? Pollution in Chittaging. Hurried temple in Dacca for 44 gold. Tenoctitlan completes courthouse and manages to pull 2 shields a turn out of 15. I start a police station. Science rate set dow to save money.
3: I realize that all the workers are fortified!!!!!!!!!!! Who did this??? I clear up 4 pollution this turn. Some science thing discovered, Radio started.
4: New Delhian culture is greater than that of texcoco again! Galleon of infantry heads off to pune.
5: Tenochtitlan completes a Police Station and gets 6 unorrupted shields!!! Also, 16 uncorrupted commerce. Pune builds Courthouse and starts to get some good prod.
Looking at a city, I realize it has a coal plant. We have Hoover dam... Lotsa coal plants sold off for 20 gold each, this also saves 3gpt per plant sold off.
6: stuff happens. Prebuild for UN started in Calcutta. It has 100 shields/turn.
7: Radio discovered. Fission started for UN. Palace expanded.
Hmm: science: Fission comes in 5 turns at 100% science, 6 turns at 80% or 90% science, 7 8 9 for 70% 60% 50% and too many turns after that.
So I had a really crazy idea: Sell radio to the scientific civs and hope that they draw Fission as their free tech!
I ended up selling something different.
Well I sold Sci Meth and The Corp to persia for some lux and 180 gpt.
Same pair to babs for 60 gpt and another lux.
3 lux to germany for 6 gpt, 9 gold and wmap.
Electricity to Shaka for 29 gpt and 40 gold.

So...hmmm... giving them free tech would ensure their vote, right? So I give them free tech!
Germany draws ROcketry. Censored.
Persia too! *BEEP*
And... Babylon gets Rocketry. D*mn!!
Well, Our science is now 100% and running a surplus, so I go ahead.

1360 passes me by, 1365 is my turn 10.
You did say 10 to 15, didnt you??
Last turn of FIssion, I turn down science rate and see + 666 per turn! LOL!
Diplo victory in 1395 AD, 4 of 5 votes. Babylon wasnt an option to vote for.
I took 16 turns, but the game is over.
Chandragupta the Magnificent, 6.3k points.

The save is attached below.
 
Yay! [party] :love2: [dance]

And c'mon, share with us some of the fun of the win. :) We want pics of the election, the victory screen, the hall of fame... :)

Exactly when is that save from (before or after the election?) If it's before, I'll download it tonight to see the win.

And we never went to any war, right? Guess Ex will be happy with that outcome.

:beer: :jump: :goodjob:
 
And Exsanguination says this:

We're done? Wow... That was pretty fast. I must say I've never seen a game like this - we absolutely demolished the AI. I've never been able to pull off 4 turns of research for every tech in the Industrial Age. I'm very impressed!

(note: I checked the HoF and we were only 200 points away from a place in the HoF. This would have been especially honorable since we scored big points by going against all the tried-and-tested secrets to scoring big: no war, no milking, ended early. Maybe next time... )

No war? Hmph. I was, subliminally, hoping for lots of good action. I wanted to test out the defense- only standpoint and see how it worked. Well, that fell through...

I have a couple ideas for more SGs based on this concept and even some others... but right now I am much too busy to start another one. Maybe in time, in time.

Good job, all!
 
We win! Yea! :beer:

No war is sort of a bummer. I also wanted to see what kinded tricks we'd have to pull during an all defensive war. There are somethings that I do during my solo games that gets me sneak attacked more than usual, but I guess no such luck here :rolleyes:. You know, maybe aggressive settling does not provoke the AIs as much as we thought it does.

One last thing...

Tenochtitlan completes a Police Station and gets 6 unorrupted shields!!! Also, 16 uncorrupted commerce.

You know, Erik, I must admitt I was wrong about this one. The flips were worth it. :D
 
I think the AIs never attacked us for two reasons: first, many of the aggressive settlements flipped their rival cities very quickly. It's possible that what triggers AI aggression is _ongoing_ presence of infringing settlement (active culture wars), rather than just the act of settling.

Second, it takes time for the AIs to eventually get around to declaring war and attacking, and we absolutely blazed through the industrial age at amazing speed. Given time, they would've come for us, but it's time we didn't use.
 
The save is from before the vote, of course. That way everyone gets the score on their list.
It went like this:
Chandragupta votes for Chandragupta
Xerxes votes for Xerxes
Hammurabi votes for Chandragupta
Shaka votes for Chandragupta
Bismark votes for Chandragupta.

4-of-5 votes. I say we submit it to the HOF as a special case.

And now let's PARTY!!!@!!!
[dance] :bday: [party] :mischief: :cooool: :goodjob: :ninja: [dance] :jump:
 
And here's our win in its proper glory (if you only see two images your browser is stupid and can't view PNGs):

ex-vote.jpg


ex-replay.png


ex-histogram.png


ex-hof.jpg


And, uh, Erik, that was 5.3k points, not 6.3k (that's one heck of a typo :P )
 
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