Existing Buildings Discussion

[Hydromancerx]

This reminds me... I've been considering a project down the road that I'd most certainly want your help with (so we're talking WAAAAAAY down the road) that makes it possible for players to play against ai personalities that represent the various members of the mod team that have been playing long enough to be able to proceduralize their game decisions in all areas.

In the short term it might be cool to make a modular C2C Team civ with C2C Team Leaderheads.

 

[KingArthur666]

I've been taking a look at the buildings that store food, and would like to make a few suggested changes. First, these are the buildings that store growth:

		Stores	Tech Req		Obsoletes At		Notes
Icehouse	10%	Construction		Refrigeration
Storage Pit	10%	Gathering		Agricultural Eng.
Warehouse	10%	Chemistry		Planetary Economics
Granary		30%	Pottery			-			Replaces Storage Pit
Mod. Granary	50%	Agricultural Eng.	-			Replaces Granary and Storage Pit
Shaman Hut	25%	Shamanism		Democracy

Note: There are also two national wonders that store food, but I don't list them here

Put in chronological order, and assuming the buildings are constructed soon after discovery, it would result in the following total food storage percentage over time:

			Storage		Change
Early Prehistoric	10%		Build Storage Pit
Late Prehistoric	35%		Build Shaman Hut
Early Ancient		55%		Granary Replaces Storage Pit
Early Classical		65%		Build Icehouse
Mid Classical		40%		Shaman Hut Obsoletes
Early Renaissance	50%		Build Warehouse
Early Industrial	40%		Icehouse Obsoletes
Mid Industrial		60%		Mod. Granary Replaces Granary

To me, this progression doesn't make much sense. Why should peak food storage occur in the early Classical era, and why should it drop so much from mid Classical until the Renaissance/Industrial? I'd like to suggest the following tweaks, to 'even out' the progression a bit more:

1. Remove the food storage bonus from the Shaman Hut. Even without the bonus, the Shaman Hut provides a lot of benefits that make it very much worth building - +1 Health, +1 Food, +1 Culture, +1 Gold, +1 Priest Slot.

2. Have the Warehouse replace the Icehouse, and reduce the Icehouse food storage percentage to 5%.

This would give the following progression:

			Storage		Change
Early Prehistoric	10%		Build Storage Pit
Early Ancient		30%		Granary Replaces Storage Pit
Early Classical		35%		Build Icehouse
Early Renaissance	40%		Warehouse Replaces Icehouse
Mid Industrial		60%		Mod. Granary Replaces Granary

Any thoughts?

Dang! I came a bit late to this discussion. I'll go ahead and throw in my two cents. When I read this I was thinking, good, good... But then I remember Civics. Many civics change the amount of food required for growth. As your tech progresses cities require less food to grow, thus storage needs might not be as important. Something to consider.

 

[Thunderbrd]

Not since V23. Instead of just building the units it wants in any old city it now puts them out for tender and has the most appropriate city build them (which takes account of promotions it will be created with)


Not really. It onl understands such modifier as making he building more or less valuable (less in this case), so it will simply mean it wont build it as quickly as it did before if it has any effect. It won't have a differential effect depending on the wider context the city is in.

On that first matter, WELL DONE!!! I'd like to shake your hand there Been wishing for that kind of adaptation for a long time!

On the second, that seems appropriate enough a response from the ai to me. At least for now. I still like your idea of giving cities the ability to build troops faster if they forgo some xp bonuses though... something to work on down the line I say. It's inspired me to consider something of a slider that reduces xp bonuses by a percentage to decrease unit costs by a percentage... hmm... or maybe just an all or nothing setting.

In the short term it might be cool to make a modular C2C Team civ with C2C Team Leaderheads.

Completely agreed!

 

[Kreatur]

the megafarm could need the resource fetiliser to be build.
The invention of chemical fertiliser which is basically the C2C resource fetiliser enables the big food production bonuses the magafarm produce

 

[Camber]

Bullion cannot be produced after Steel Mills have been built, because Steel Mill replaces Foundry and Forge, and Foundry or Forge is required for construction of the Bullion-producing buildings. Could they be changed to require Forge, Foundry, or Manufacturing Plant (or some other appropriate building? I know Steel Mill probably wouldn't make sense, but a compromise building could probably be found).

 

[Astax]

ummm or steel-mill....

 

[Camber]

Steel Mill would be an option, but it may not be a logical choice (since steel mills tend to be rather specialized IRL). I don't care really, as long as I can build steel mills and still have bullion available in the modern era.

I've noticed a problem with Libraries and Universities not being produced by a majority of AI civs in my modern-era start games. I was wondering about the reason, and found that the requirements are very lenient: if the nation just has paper (books aren't even required), then they can be built. I don't know how to encourage this, but lack of research makes them fall very far behind. Maybe they just work so hard on building other things (probably military) that they neglect research-producing buildings.

 

[Mutasir]

Church of State building now comes with Enlightenment tech, which doesn't really make much sense. In the tech text it is emphasized that it is connected with critique of state's transgressions, while in the building's description it is said that it makes people stop questioning how goverment works, right or wrong. Maybe it should go to Nationalism tech ?

EDIT: I also find it somewhat strange that Post Office from Social Contract tech NEVER goes absolete (even in transhuman).

 

[CiverDan]

The transhuman era is a work in progress still. Most of the techs still do do anything. My thoughts of some existing buildings:

Shouldn't the balloon "buildings" be giving gold and not commerce? Since commerce=science generally (unless you are running a low tech rate). I don't see why a balloon ride should help with science. Was a bit funny that I lost 300k science discovering Skyroads due to the balloon stuff going obsolete.

Online University is OP. Build it in 20 cities and all cities get +100% science. I would knock it down to 1-2% in all cities per building.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

Shouldn't the balloon "buildings" be giving gold and not commerce? Since commerce=science generally (unless you are running a low tech rate). I don't see why a balloon ride should help with science. Was a bit funny that I lost 300k science discovering Skyroads due to the balloon stuff going obsolete.

I am always getting those two mixed up, gold and commerce. I will put a fix on the beta (SVN) soon.

 

[BlueGenie]

I have a suggestion for Elder Council, basically an idea of a possibly better way to deal with it going obsolete:
Considering what the Elder Council is, a gathering of elders that are considered wise, I feel that the closest thing resembling it would be a Monastery. Thus the Monasteries could replace the Elder Council while having the Elder Council not go obsolete (at least until a lot further along in the game).
This could mean having to tweak the Elder Council slightly as +25% research is a lot. With the new giving buildings in Pre-historic I feel reducing it to +10% research to match the first Monastery replacing it would be perfectly al-right and not reduce science during the Pre-historic notably. The +1 (and later +2) can be removed by Writing though, so that Elder Council gets the same effect that the Myths currently enjoy, reduced scientific worth.
(( Numbers, if having 300 per turn you would go down to 266 (11.112% reduction) as the removed 15% would be on the base, not the total, so only around 10% reduction. ))

This way Writing Technology would not take as big a hit as it currently does and Meditation for Monasteries is not that far off from Writing anyway so the Elder Council should become replaced soon after anyway.

Cheers

 

[Camber]

Dye Maker: could it produce a dye substitute, similar to how Synthetic Rubber can replace Rubber? There are many ingredients to Dye that could be possible requirements, such as Fine Clay, Oil, Flowers, Shellfish, Chemicals, Berries, and Vegetables. Each of these could add a small gold bonus to the building, with end product (call it Dye if you want simplicity, but other good ones could be Pigment, Ink, or Paints) being a substitute wherever Dye is required.

Colosseum: I noticed that it upgrades to Minor League Stadium, but Olympic Games wonder requires x number of Colosseums, and that on advanced start games of the Modern Era or later, the AI doesn't build Colosseums usually. Could you have Olympic Games require x number of Colosseums or Minor League Stadiums?

 

[Hydromancerx]

@Camber

1. Dye is going to get an overhaul eventually. Just have not got around to doing it yet.

2. RoM/AND use to have Ancient Olympics vs Modern Olympics. Perhaps we should bring that back.

 

[ls612]

2. RoM/AND use to have Ancient Olympics vs Modern Olympics. Perhaps we should bring that back.

We should make a special wonder, the London 2012 Olympics, and remove it after the games are over, as a treat/easter egg.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

The current Olympic Games wonder represents the ancient one and all the other ancient ones from other cultures. We may need a modern one at Nationalism.

 

[Hydromancerx]

The current Olympic Games wonder represents the ancient one and all the other ancient ones from other cultures. We may need a modern one at Nationalism.

That's what I was suggesting. However the RoM/AND one would move from city to city through an event system. I have no idea how to do that.

Also the World's Fair wonder would do the same thing.

 

[jmmendesp]

I would like to report a bug about one of the buildings.

The sound the brewery makes when it's built - it makes me too damn thirsty!!

EDIT -

 

[jmmendesp]

Alright, this may be a dumb question, but - how do we queue up more than 2 buildings in a city?

 

[Sgtslick]

Shift left click adds it to the queue, control left click add it to the TOP of the queue. You need to zoom into city forgot to mention this. Like when you get the production complete- zoom into the city, hold down shift and click away.
Also once your happy with the build queue you can save it:- Control 1, or 2-9 as well. Control groups work separately for units too, so you can control group a single unit or group of unit as control 1 and a build queue as control 1 and both with exist.

Alt left click to select all is a nice trick for anyone not aware of it. You can select all units on a tile, you can also select all city bars at once with alt left click too, for example you can alt left click city bar and set a rally point to somewhere with shift right click on a tile.

Another tip, in the f1 menu (i think its f1, with the list of cities). You can click on your capital, then shift click on the bottom of the list (highlighting them all), then you can control left click a building or unit to build at the TOP of ALL build queues, or shift left click obviously works too to add it to the bottom. This is handy when you get a new building that you want to build in all cities right away.

Another one I forgot, similar to alt-left click which selects all units on a tile, control-left click on a unit will select all units of that type in the tile. So if you want to isolate all your horseman, control-left click.

 

[jmmendesp]

Shift left click adds it to the queue, control left click add it to the TOP of the queue. You need to zoom into city forgot to mention this. Like when you get the production complete- zoom into the city, hold down shift and click away.
Also once your happy with the build queue you can save it:- Control 1, or 2-9 as well. Control groups work separately for units too, so you can control group a single unit or group of unit as control 1 and a build queue as control 1 and both with exist.

Thanks a lot, you saved me so much time