Exotic Unit Pack - Mod Collaboration Thread

Cool! Am playing around with the camel composite units at the moment. I think I'm initially going to make them very weak combat strength, move = 2 but flat move costs, and double in desert and free pillage. And cheap. They may meet the hit and run requirement you mentioned earlier. Once they're built you can experiment with them and see if you think that's a good approach.

Here's my current gig list (things I need to do to the mod in its current version, before expanding more capabilities) - none of these are time-consuming, but not sure if I'll get them done tomorrow or not:
1. Add overrides for civs with existing elephant units so they can't build some/all of the new ones
2. Add special promotions to Siam/India/Carthage: double move in forest/jungle
3. Finish Civilopedia entries
4. Add SV files for all new units
5. Run 3-5 LiveTuner automated games (500+ turns) to test stability and monitor to see if the AI is using the new units and using them properly

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Potential Future Work Areas

Have been looking through the available models, and here are some potential units you may or may not find worthy of adding to the mod:

https://forums.civfanatics.com/resources/arabian-rifleman.19407/

https://forums.civfanatics.com/resources/arabian-rifleman.19407/

https://forums.civfanatics.com/resources/persian-riflemen.17248/

https://forums.civfanatics.com/resources/egyptian-riflemen.17230/

https://forums.civfanatics.com/resources/ottoman-rifelmen.17042/

Have also been thinking about how far to push the concept behind the mod - "exotic" - true it's probably only exotic for westerners, but I do like the way we might be able to add another layer of units - throughout the tech tree - to give the military part of the game more depth and frankly make it a bit more fun.

- How do you feel about a "Iman" kind of unit: https://forums.civfanatics.com/resources/imam.25916/ or https://forums.civfanatics.com/resources/guru.25919/
Was thinking the Imam would be a combination Great Prophet/General, and the Guru combination Great Prophet/Scientist. Not exactly the same functions, but a minor version of them.

- A "Dhow" civilian boat unit that can build naval improvements - like fishing boats do, but I'm researching another couple of aquatic improvements (e.g. Citadel on the sea, etc.).

- Other naval possibilities: War Junk (https://forums.civfanatics.com/resources/civ5-war-junk.23153/), Fire ships (a slow, cheap, damaged caravel-type unit that sinks on impact, but does huge damage. Will eventually sink on its own if not used). Corsairs (special artwork, but similar to Privateers - but I'll need to come up with more capabilities or it's probably not worth it).

- Got to have a Turkish Bombard of sorts - a slow moving behemoth that takes forever to get in place, but once it does, deals extraordinary damage. Possible artwork here: http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=242272997&searchtext=india the Farsakh cannon. I also like their fighting Admiral (Thalai-Thirvai) to make the naval game more interesting, along with the Kadapadai boat artwork.

- Malmuks (medieval cav unit)? Ghurkas (WW1 unit)? Some Arab "Militias" (19th/early 20th century), etc.

OK. Probably enough for tonight. The ideas above are mostly based on available/usable artwork. I think I can see another 5-10 land units, 4-5 naval units, and a few civilian units that could be added to the mod and give it quite a rounded feel - and make the game more colorful, varied, and interesting. I don't have a ton of time available for this, as many of my other mods need some updating/fixing. OTOH, I don't think it will take weeks, either. We've already got 8 units working in just a couple of days, and much of that time was in setting up the work in the first place.

No need to comment on all or even any of this post - I'm mostly keeping it as a holding-place for me to come back to later. I think I'll be done with the gig list tomorrow, so will need some clarifications/priorities from you on what should be done next if anything.

Thanks!
 
Hah. I don't follow suggestions! I'll comment anyway!

No, but seriously, though, I like the rifleman units. I think the Arab rifleman has a desert feel to it, which is cool. The rest are more Napoleonic looking. I guess the latter could have fighting bonuses in smooth terrain? I think that could work. And the Arab riflemen could have yet another desert promotion, either movement or combat bonus.

I like the Imam and Guru ideas, but how are you going to implement them? Arabia already has the camel archer, or if you're gonna replace it, a Ghazi, and they have the bazaar. Or is it that you only get them if you pick Islam or Sikhism as your religion?

As for the dhow, I like what you gave.

War Junk: I think it could be the upgrade from the trireme. You don't really get one until the Renaissance era, and I think that's a bit too late.
Fire Ship: I like the idea just as it is.
Corsairs: Hmm... I'm not seeing much here. Maybe we could later, though.

Here's a suggestion: An early ranged ship. One before the galleass, unlocked via the Sailing technology.

I do like the idea of a Turkish bombard unit. I think we could maybe have one for each era except ancient?

Let's see . . . onagers for classical. I think the trebuchet is fine, and I think the onagers can just carry over an era. A "field gun," next to the cannons. Cannons being the "normal" siege unit, and the field gun being the stronger option.

As for the Mamluks, I guess we could have them as mercenaries. I think they could be unlocked with Chivalry, but that's kinda the opposite. Mamluks were slaves. Maybe a knight that doesn't require upkeep and is slightly weaker? I think that could work.

I like the Gurkha idea. I think they could be units able to cross mountains, and no movement cost in hills. As for the tech, I'd say Rifling, or maybe the one where Great War Infantry is unlocked. (I forget the name.)

Arab militias can also, in my opinion be mercenaries, but they do have upkeep. Or, if you could get it working, have the worker unit turn into the militia unit. This costs [insert amount here] gold, and they don't have upkeep, but cause unhappiness.
 
Great feedback - and is appreciated. I'm wrapping up items on my gig list, and hope to get to new content this afternoon.

One of the key themes I picked up from your note was perhaps adding in the "class" (concept, really) of Mercenary units. The legendary JFD has an extensive mod offering a similar capability: http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=514655444

Another interesting mod is this one: http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=442494491

I'm not saying to completely include these mods with Exotic Units (EU) - but perhaps some of the constructs may be a good way to introduce these units to normal civs. I'm thinking of creating a building or two, a mercenary hiring facility (like the Consulate from Age of Empires 3: The Asian Dynasties). If a player didn't want to hire these units, they needn't build the building. Of it they no longer want to see the units in the city build list, sell the building and away they go. Probably a good idea to restrict them to Gold purchase only (not with Production or Faith). It's not difficult to build an LUA function that kills the unit after X number of turns - if that is desired. Will look at how JFD set up his "contracts" to see how much of that concept we want to plagiarize...

And not all of the units in this mod need to be tied to the Consulate. They way both Camels and Elephants are set up seems like a great design to me - if you have the assets (desert or ivory) you can build the unit. Units that don't neatly line up with this approach will be mercs.

I'll do some more thinking about this, but I may create 2 kinds of Consulate buildings, one for ship mercs and one for land, and introduce a couple of test units (Junks/Fire Ships, and Mamluks/Bombards) hire-able through these buildings and see how it goes during testing.

The Combo Civilian units (Guru/Imam) will wait a bit - the way Civ V uses Faith is often a PITA and will require quite a bit of testing - especially to make sure the AI has even the remotest chance of using them correctly. It's difficult to write code to "force" the AI to do certain things. Heck, you can't even give an LUA command that says, "move unit A from Location B to Location C." Well, there is a command, but it doesn't work. The AI looks at it as a "suggestion" then goes about its merry way, sometimes taking your suggestion, sometimes not.

Appreciate your testing of the units and letting me know any issues/concerns/suggestions you have. I'd also dearly appreciate any Civilopedia/Strategy/Help text samples you'd like to contribute. It slows me down quite a bit looking for decent text to add to the Civilopedia. I, like most modders, look at the Civilopedia as a major distraction if not a feature to avoid like the plague. Over the past few months, with tons of feedback on my mods, evidently players really DO appreciate the info in the Civilopedia, so they can refer to it and figure out how to use the mod's units/features,etc. Any suggestions along the text-based lines is a huge relief for me.

Thanks. Work continues...

P.s. I'm also reconfiguring the mod so that all of the overrides are in a separate file - this makes it easy to "remove" units from the mod with a simple comment command (a double dash "--" in sql). Some players like to say, "love the mod, hate unit X though..." This way, they can remove unit X fairly easily. It also makes it possible to let Barbs and City States use some of the units if a player would like to do that as well.
 
Yep. Can do the text work! I'll look for stuff to use for any new units you add.

I do like the mercenaries idea, honestly. I think it fits nicely.

Separate buildings for land and naval mercenaries is a good idea, yeah. :)
 
All 8 units completed, gig sheet completed. Can post new version if you'd like, or wait a bit to hopefully include some merc stuff for real testing... About the only change I think I'll make later on these units is to change the flag icons for the camel composite units. Just doesn't look cool enough.

A couple of update close ups. The Camel Class photo:
upload_2017-12-6_10-56-39.jpeg


Elephant/Pachyderm Class Photo:
upload_2017-12-6_10-56-53.jpeg


Camel Composite (Raiding Party, War Party) Close up:
upload_2017-12-6_11-1-47.jpeg


Now, off for some experimentation on how to implement the Mercs. Appreciate the offer on any text additions. Saves a ton of time and frustration.
 
Have been looking at existing Merc-themed mods and from what I've seen they're either too simplistic (most of them) or seriously complicated/extensive for what I think I'm capable of putting together. So, in the interim, I think I'd like to approach this by adding a series of buildings throughout the tech tree that allows civs to buy mercs. This makes it much easier to add units in the future, and simplifies the set up for testing (just in case we don't keep this solution). Here's my first cut:

upload_2017-12-6_13-1-8.jpeg



I'm not sure the "War Moot" will make the final version - I guess I was thinking maybe you could hire mercs based on a barter economy, but perhaps it's cleaner with 4 buildings for each unit domain. I'll look around for things like prereq buildings, e.g. the "Shipyard" requires a "Seaport" and things like that. I also don't see a lot of extra yields/benefits coming out of these - definitely no gold. Maybe some culture bump for land buildings and some trade route/production bump for sea buildings. The buildings also won't cost very much, and I may put a build limit (say 3?) for each building.
 
I think the War Moot is a bit too early, though, don't you think? Or, maybe that's because I start off slow in the beginning. That's probably what it is, honestly.

Oh yeah, I'm back home, so I can test them out, if you want me to.
 
Latest version uploaded. Am working on artwork for the merc buildings. Slow slog, as artwork usually is...
 
Yes, I was too. But I also noticed a lot more lag lately in getting responses to posts on the main C&C forum. I guess there's less foot traffic these days, especially with the holidays.

Latest version with the 7 new buildings loaded. They tested OK, so I think the stage is set for me to start adding merc units tomorrow.

Made some updates to the Camel composite units - changed their flags to something more intimidating. Also have included an updated merc buildings chart.

upload_2017-12-6_17-35-58.jpeg upload_2017-12-6_17-36-28.jpeg

These new buildings were a rush job, so appreciate a second pair of eyes to see if anything needs fixing.

May look at adding some minor buff to trade routes (more faith or culture, maybe gold) for the sea-merc buildings. Not sure it's needed yet.
 
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First draft of the merc units I plan on starting building into the mod. There is room for more, but this is enough to start on. I should have available artwork on most/if not all of them. Still a few gaps. I'd like to add at least 2 per building, but don't mind dropping a building if it really has no purpose. I suspect, however, I can come up with more than enough before long. Appreciate any/all suggestions.

upload_2017-12-6_21-53-58.jpeg
 
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Couldn't test out the update you posted yesterday, was a little busy with stuff. Will do that later today, though.

I quite like the mercenary units you suggested. I think the heptastadion should give a ranged naval unit early on. I think optics would be good for that unit.
 
No worries. I've been busy myself... :lol:

Here is the latest version of the Merc class of units. It can be adjusted as needed, but I "think" this should provide a balance of capabilities throughout the tech tree. Am putting together the artwork (again the slowest part), and believe within an hour or so I can actually start adding the units/models into the mod and test them. These units are being set up like the previous ones, so it is relatively simple for a player to remove them from the game if they don't like a particular one.

Am still thinking about how to manage the "contract" for these units as well - probably one of the last things to add to the mod. I'm leaning towards establishing a "contract period" of something like 20 turns. At the end of that contract, if the player has sufficient funds, the mod will pop up a small window that asks if the player wants to extend the contract. If insufficient funds are available, the unit disbands. If they renew the contract, the 20 turn countdown starts again. Would probably also send up a warning button (on the right side of the screen) on turn 15 to warn the player of the upcoming deadline. I think I can manage that code, but will need to test it later.

Initially, the plan is to set the unit maintenance higher than normal units and let the player keep them forever. May need to use LUA to actively manage this for the AI, as it tends to never get rid of obsolete units...

upload_2017-12-7_9-47-53.jpeg


The "Inca Cargo Ship" name is a placeholder. Will finalize that when I'm sure I can get the model working. If not, I'll find a suitable ranged naval model to use.

Let me know if you see something you don't like.
 
Well, make that two hours... But I think these icons will be good enough to proceed to installing the models. Hard part's over. "Fun" part begins.... After lunch.... :lol:

upload_2017-12-7_12-35-58.jpeg upload_2017-12-7_12-36-34.jpeg

The icons/flags appear in the same order as the table in post #116.

I'll definitely need some suggestions as to what, if any, promotions we assign to these units. I've been thinking about creating a "random" promotion for land and another for sea units - like the "Mystic Blade" promotion in the original game. Never done that before, but the construct "seems" fairly direct. I'd keep it basic - bonus or penalty to attack/defense depending on terrain, double attacks, extra moves, etc. Maybe only 1 of any of these. Still, if you feel strongly about any promotion for any unit, can add that separately.
 
They look great! And yeah, I like them all, actually.

As for promotions, I like the idea of giving them something similar to the Mystic Blade ability.

Here's something I want to see, specifically: Gurkhas get the ability to cross mountains.

Gonna go ahead and download the updated mod, and test it out.
 
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