Explain this, you empiricists

[C~G]

I'm with you Bozo, there are secret forces at work, believe me.

Always expect the unexpected.

Personally I have had clear experiences where I have noticed things that happening to me more than coincidences and no amount of convincing from crowd of "logical" people with their explanations of probability and coincidence could sway me believe it's something else than mystical experience. These things however haven't much to do with dreams though but other things, as meeting people in certain places where the probability for such thing happening is extremely low.

There are some really weird things going on in the world, however there's always reason to or let's say that something has caused this but we don't know what it is. I believe also that when we start to percept the phenomena we somehow affect it automatically because we start to explain it to ourselves by our reasoning which is unequal to the task. We don't know ever all the parts and principles of the equation. Universum cannot be explained only experienced.

I believe that truths to us are only revealed sometimes by instant momentous feeling rather than logical pondering of issues. We may afterwards find some reason to these instinct feelings but we still don't know why. It's like falling in love, after some time is gone, illusion of perfectness of the phenomana is shattered but does this mean love doesn't exist and is only chemical process in our brains? I don't believe so, but then again that part of mine is the so-called "existentialistic" wheel of my machinery. But it keeps carrying my soul forward so why to stop it from whirling?

There's always something behind reason but there's nothing beyond truth.
Reason speculates, Truth reveals.

But now let's get back from the twilight zone to the real world.
Close your eyes, count slowly to ten and open up them again. You see now with new eyes.

 

[ironduck]

warpus - can you post the dream you typed out in 2003?

 

[warpus]

Damn, thats awesome. Do you believe it was just a 'coincidence'?

I dont' see what else it could be. I don't think I can see into the future or anything.

However, next time I have an incredibly vivid dream I'm going to pay attention.. juust in case.

Im equally as likely to win tommorow, as I am to never win, even if I play for a million years. The idea of imposing laws on randomness is almost laughable.

Well.. if you play every day for a million years your chances of winning once are actually pretty good

I'm with you Bozo, there are secret forces at work, believe me.

Prove it

warpus - can you post the dream you typed out in 2003?

If I bugged all my friends from 3 years ago to look through their logs, I might be able to find it.. but why?

 

[C~G]

Prove it

Prove it yourself to be otherwise.

You can't, that's what I'm saying here.

Secret forces mean that they are unexplainable from deep down.

If the law of probability for you is enough, then let it be so but don't expect me to swallow it since you don't have so much data that you could ever show that Bozo's dream and the brownout could be somehow calculated to have high probability of occurring together. I believe that is the easy route, taken by those that like reductionistic physical or mathematical explanations to everything.

We can only guess and rest we put on faith.
I don't believe in God since I don't have any experience of His existence but when it comes to synchronicity and that there are things that cannot be explained by rationality I have plenty of experience.

But I see them as much as psychological concepts as metaphysical concepts, meaning that we don't understand how our mind works as we don't understand how the universum works. We just speculate.

 

[Urederra]

You are a brujo on psylocibyn, BOZO.

I wonder if you can tame your wild presentient powers. Then you can hit the jackpot at any casino in Las Vegas.

 

[warpus]

If the law of probability for you is enough, then let it be so but don't expect me to swallow it since you don't have so much data that you could ever show that Bozo's dream and the brownout could be somehow calculated to have high probability of occurring together. I believe that is the easy route, taken by those that like reductionistic physical or mathematical explanations to everything.

Of course the laws of probability are enough.

There are 6.4 billion people on this planet, and a lot of s#!t is going on. Coincidences are bound to happen. From time to time a freaky thing that happened to me will happen and it will force me to think: "Maybe something strange is going on here?"..

Having a dream about a brownout or a shuttle disaster, and it happening the next day, is not very probable, but with 6.4 billion people on this planet weird things like that are bound to happen.

But extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence, so.

 

[Phlegmak]

Prove it yourself to be otherwise.

You can't, that's what I'm saying here.

Secret forces mean that they are unexplainable from deep down.

If the law of probability for you is enough, then let it be so but don't expect me to swallow it since you don't have so much data that you could ever show that Bozo's dream and the brownout could be somehow calculated to have high probability of occurring together. I believe that is the easy route, taken by those that like reductionistic physical or mathematical explanations to everything.

It's the most logical explanation, not simply "the easy route".

We can only guess and rest we put on faith.
I don't believe in God since I don't have any experience of His existence but when it comes to synchronicity and that there are things that cannot be explained by rationality I have plenty of experience.

You believe in god now! Everything you said is consistent with theists. "I believe it because my unprovable beliefs seem true." Anyway, if it can't be proven nor disproven, with no reason to believe something is true, then it's reasonable to assume it's not true. That goes for god, karma, and believing dreams affect reality or predict reality.

But I see them as much as psychological concepts as metaphysical concepts, meaning that we don't understand how our mind works as we don't understand how the universum works. We just speculate.

Now you're taking the easy route. You want to continue to believe your own hypothesis without accepting more reasonable explanations. It's harder to deny long held beliefs than retain them.

 

[.Shane.]

So whats the 'logical' explanation?

Tell me, how many times have you dreamed something and it not came true? But you wouldn't post those because, well, an unfilled dream is not something most people even remember.

There's a stastical term for this, but it escapes me atm.

 

[Masquerouge]

There's a stastical term for this, but it escapes me atm.

Coincidence is good enough, but Bozo is allergic to that word

 

[C~G]

It's the most logical explanation, not simply "the easy route".

It's your logic, not mine. Your brain does the work and my brain says it isn't so.

You believe in god now! Everything you said is consistent with theists. "I believe it because it feels true." Anyway, if it can't be proven nor disproven, with no reason to believe something is true, then it's reasonable to assume it's not true. That goes for god, karma, and believing dreams affect reality or predict reality.

I don't believe in God, Karma, or about dreams affecting reality or predicting it. Or yes I do since they affect the person experiencing those and we don't know what makes us experience them. Just like you believe into your logic which affects you right now.
I don't believe a second Bozo is psychic neither that explanations for all the coincidences is law of probability. Or it is, but we don't know how it works really. Because sometimes happens the least expected and you win on lottery.
But could you ever predict it to happen to someone and to who?

This is what interests me. How it affects our life since coincidences aren't necessarily separate incidents but quite often walk hand in hand. I just mean that we don't understand such things work, we usually kid ourselves with the most direct explanation since it's the coupout so our mind is satisfied for the time being. I used to do the same thing, but not anymore.

Only thing I can admit is that I don't understand.

Now you're taking the easy route. You want to continue to believe your own hypothesis without accepting more reasonable explanations. It's harder to deny long held beliefs than retain them.

Easy route or not but for me the most reasonable explanation is that we don't know how it happens.
Your stance is the most common since like said is the illusion of logical mind and explaining everything by the laws of basic psychics and mathematics while I say they aren't enough, because our mind cheats us when we do it.

We create simplistic model and choose it since it makes us feel easy about phenomena that could be otherwise only explained by complex model that would make us feel uneasy. Logic in this case is the safe and warm blanket.

But extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence, so.

My only extraordinary claim is that world is more complex than we think and and the extraordinary evidence is everywhere around us.

I'm not saying your explanation is wrong, I'm saying that it isn't just enough.

Call it Nature, Fate, Fortune; all these are names of the one and selfsame God.
- Lucius Annaeus Seneca

 

[.Shane.]

Coincidence is good enough, but Bozo is allergic to that word

I may be overthinking it. In the end, its just random probability. Remember enough dreams and one will eventually seem to come true.

 

[Sims2789]

Ive been debating whether to bring this up, because its the sort of thing that automatically gets people labelled a nutcase. But what the hell, I AM a nutcase Ok here it is:

I dreamt repeatedly about their being a blackout. I wake up. A short time later, Im discussing it with someone, and specifically say, "Well, lets see if the lights go out." A few minutes later, theres a major brownout, and parts of the area locally are left without power for a number of minutes. Me and this person looked at each other, and he said that Im a 'Brujo' (warlock)

So whats the 'logical' explanation?

Most likely coincidence, but I wouldn't be surprised if intuition is the summation of things we subconsciously notice (there should be an experiment on this). As for dreams, the same thing is probably true. Also, you've had plenty of dreams, but only one has predicted the future. If you'd woken up and the lights had been on, you wouldn't have thought "That's odd. My dream didn't predict the future.". The one time a dream actually does foresee the future, you're going to remember it.

 

[Corlindale]

Coincidences happen. I don't believe in fate or prophetic visions, but I do believe that human beings can have a tendency to view events as linked. But I believe that statistically such things are bound to happen occasionally, and we sometimes tend to exaggerate our explanations of them.
I once experienced a weird coincidence on an internet forum(of all places). There was a thread named "recommend a book" or something, and I thought "Hey, 1984 by Orwell is a great book", so I went ahead and wrote a post with a recommendation of that.
But when I had finished, and went back to the page, I saw that someone else had just, within the exact same span of minutes, written a recommendation of that exact book. I had not been talking with said person about that book before, as I recall. Now that is odd

Another series of coincides was related to the song called Greensleeves. IN music class at high school one day, I heard that song for the first time. I go home, and when I log into an internet forum(same forum as before) I check a thread called "Guess a song" in which people posts a part of lyrics, and then others can guess the song. And 'lo and behold, someone had just posted Greensleeves. During this session, I was listening to a cd with Blackmore's Night I had gotten from the library the other day. I hadn't heard it all the way through before, and I didn't really know which tracks where on. Suddenly I heard something familiar - it proved to be a cover version of...Greensleeves!

And still, I maintain my belief in coincidence.

 

[Millman]

Couldn't life be viewed as probability and statistics? The chance I would fall in love, the chance I would have a dream. Would it be easier if life just showed you all the answers without having to look for it? In that case, life would be dull and no human would be interested in discovering the mystery. Although there are people who can't live without someone else, I think it's clear most people live to find emotional/logical answers because our brains tell us it's new and exciting or coincidental and stuff...

 

[Eran of Arcadia]

It's like New Agers saying that "everything happens for a reason." They're incorrect of course, since not everything has some reason behind it.

You assume that just because you cannot identify or understand the reason that it is not there. Well, that is incorrect. There may or may not be a reason behind everything but humans are in no way qualified to make that judgment.

 

[Millman]

You assume that just because you cannot identify or understand the reason that it is not there. Well, that is incorrect. There may or may not be a reason behind everything but humans are in no way qualified to make that judgment.

There might or might not be an explanation, but I've argued that life isn't perfect, would that have something to do with it?

Imperfect creatures trying to understand the understandable or currently unexplainable.

Remember there are subjects like math that are more exact and others we don't know everything about or explain adequately yet. And I'm willing to bet we know something. A genuinely lincensed Surgeon is the one more likely going to be operating on me than someone who hasn't been to med school.

 

[Swiss_Mercenari]

I belive that there is an underlayer to space. We are not just in space time. There is an underforce that causes these "coincedences" when it breaks and is invisible. So these things do have a reason.

 

[Millman]

I belive that there is an underlayer to space. We are not just in space time. There is an underforce that causes these "coincedences" when it breaks and is invisible. So these things do have a reason.(37)

Giving mystery a reason, an invisible underlayer of space intends on causing coincidences for humanity.(15)

Feel like improving someone else's sentence because I should be doing that to mine.(14)

 

[SS-18 ICBM]

Ive been debating whether to bring this up, because its the sort of thing that automatically gets people labelled a nutcase. But what the hell, I AM a nutcase Ok here it is:

I dreamt repeatedly about their being a blackout. I wake up. A short time later, Im discussing it with someone, and specifically say, "Well, lets see if the lights go out." A few minutes later, theres a major brownout, and parts of the area locally are left without power for a number of minutes. Me and this person looked at each other, and he said that Im a 'Brujo' (warlock)

So whats the 'logical' explanation?

What?! It's obviously coincidence.

But to satiate you it must have been due to the principle of entanglement.

Or, as one philosopher said, the mind needs no objects outside itself. It can create its own

 

[CartesianFart]

Ive been debating whether to bring this up, because its the sort of thing that automatically gets people labelled a nutcase. But what the hell, I AM a nutcase Ok here it is:

I dreamt repeatedly about their being a blackout. I wake up. A short time later, Im discussing it with someone, and specifically say, "Well, lets see if the lights go out." A few minutes later, theres a major brownout, and parts of the area locally are left without power for a number of minutes. Me and this person looked at each other, and he said that Im a 'Brujo' (warlock)

So whats the 'logical' explanation?

For to answer to a nutcase is one that require a nutcase expert as i am.

What is your problem is that it is erroneous to suppose that there is a causal connection between your contingent event in your dream and the contingent event while being conscious.Here is a Humean way to analyze it:We may say that we observed that Event B(the light going out) was caused by Event A(the dream of a blackout),but all we have actually observed is Event A and then,following it,Event B.We have not observed a third thing,a causal connection,linking the two.But to say that A caused B is not the same as saying that A happened and then B happened;it is saying that A brought B about-that B happened because A happened.So we all have observed is a sequence of events,whereas the causal relationship is a necessary connection.

Another point is that how can you be sure that the next time you have a dream of a blackout and wake up,that a blackout will necessarily follow?