Exploration Continued Expanded (Obsolete)

[Natan35]

Its because of the map size... AI gets crazy wide in huge maps. I saw Ethiopia settling 12 cities, before nthe industrial era.

 

[Clad in Plaid]

Yeah, it'd be pretty great if that could be prevented. The Native American civs just found the little hill tile you can use to go from the old world to the new and vice versa w/o getting ocean-going vessels. I'm sure they're already sending settlers to put cities in places they really shouldn't ("Genghis Khan surely wouldn't mind a little outpost of mine in between his cities, would he?").

 

[Natan35]

Also, shipwrecks aren't showing. And, AI is still having exploration problems.

 

[giggsidan]

Also, shipwrecks aren't showing. And, AI is still having exploration problems.

Noticed this too. Are these known issues? I've played a few games now into mid-late game with this mod, and I've noticed a couple things...

Shipwrecks - Are they just supposed to show up like ancient ruins or do I have to research something for them to show? Because I've not seen a single one.

AI exploring and ancient ruins - I will usually make a couple of scouts early on and send them all over the world. Often I'll still have my first scout out on turn 150 or 200 or whatever finding the last few civs. I've noticed a lot of times that there are still ancient ruins sometimes right next to another civ's city. Do they not explore at all? Are they knowledgeable in using great scouts to explore or even settle? It can make the game feel kind of imbalanced even on high difficulties when I'm getting all these free ruins throughout the game

 

[Natan35]

You have no idea... I played once with Ethiopia, who starts with +1 movement and vision for starting units and a scout(from cultural diversity), and got like... I dunno, 25 ancient ruins....

 

[kaspergm]

Noticed this too. Are these known issues? I've played a few games now into mid-late game with this mod, and I've noticed a couple things...

Shipwrecks - Are they just supposed to show up like ancient ruins or do I have to research something for them to show? Because I've not seen a single one.

AI exploring and ancient ruins - I will usually make a couple of scouts early on and send them all over the world. Often I'll still have my first scout out on turn 150 or 200 or whatever finding the last few civs. I've noticed a lot of times that there are still ancient ruins sometimes right next to another civ's city. Do they not explore at all? Are they knowledgeable in using great scouts to explore or even settle? It can make the game feel kind of imbalanced even on high difficulties when I'm getting all these free ruins throughout the game

Are you playing with any mods that change techtree? I use a mod that changes tech tree so that you don't start with the skill which is required for Great Scout. Since AI is set to start with a Great Scout at higher difficulties, this meant that AI got a Warrior instead of the Great Scout and consequently didn't explore at all! Once I changed the mod so that Great Scout requirement was moved back to the technology AI started with, they got their scout and explored perfectly.

 

[giggsidan]

Are you playing with any mods that change techtree? I use a mod that changes tech tree so that you don't start with the skill which is required for Great Scout. Since AI is set to start with a Great Scout at higher difficulties, this meant that AI got a Warrior instead of the Great Scout and consequently didn't explore at all! Once I changed the mod so that Great Scout requirement was moved back to the technology AI started with, they got their scout and explored perfectly.

Hmm I use cultural diversity but I think that just adds extra stuff to certain civs like sometimes it'll give them an extra scout or warrior or technology or whatever. I just use the CP AND CBP and most of the recommended stuff for those mods.

 

[Natan35]

Are you playing with any mods that change techtree? I use a mod that changes tech tree so that you don't start with the skill which is required for Great Scout. Since AI is set to start with a Great Scout at higher difficulties, this meant that AI got a Warrior instead of the Great Scout and consequently didn't explore at all! Once I changed the mod so that Great Scout requirement was moved back to the technology AI started with, they got their scout and explored perfectly.

Its not the problem - the AI still barley explores. It will also spam cities on its continent, until he runs out of space.

 

[JFD]

Try the latest CP DLL, Natan. Some pathfinding enhancements were made.

Shipwrecks are not guaranteed to appear, and they only appear after Navigation.

 

[Natan35]

Didn't appear at all. I have gone through half of the world with my ships, and have researched satellites. Besides, in the pedis entry, they didn't really have.... Well, graphic. Like the Venetian glass from your Venice.

(Oh, and I think I realized something: the bug with CS giving non- unique units is related to this mod(and to your Nazi Germany. I think the game simply recognizes every unit that requires a resource as "unique"). It never happened to me when I wasn't using one of these mods.

 

[kaspergm]

I must also say that after playing a number of games with ExCE, I never saw a single shipwreck.

I never got around to systematically test whether the bug with unique units from city states came from this mod or was a CP issue. I intend to test some things with CP only and not ExCE, so will see if the issue is still present - however I'm having some computer issues, so I don't know how much I'll be able to play in near future.

 

[Natan35]

Also, great scout from ruin is a rather penalising upgrade. I can't get the embarking promotion, nor other promotions.

 

[kaspergm]

Also, great scout from ruin is a rather penalising upgrade. I can't get the embarking promotion, nor other promotions.

What? Great Scouts earned promotions exactly the same as normal Scouts in my games, only difference being they could choose their reward from the ruin. Getting an early scout upgrade was for me the best you could get!

 

[Ixor_Drakar]

He means after optics, if you got a great scout from a ruin before they don't get embarkation. Same with the one that spawns from Belem tower.

 

[kaspergm]

He means after optics, if you got a great scout from a ruin before they don't get embarkation. Same with the one that spawns from Belem tower.

Oh, I see. Yeah that's a good point actually, can get you stuck in a very frustrating situation.

 

[Natan35]

And they aren't able to gain promotions for me.

 

[JFD]

Bugs, bugs, bugs. Not doing a good job motivating me back into modding, Natan.

Return your Great Scout to your border if you've researched Optics when they were outside. They should then receive the embarkation promotion - it's a vanilla thing, so not something that I have much control over.

 

[Natan35]

Yeah.... It was in my border. Now its my not-so-great adventurer.
(Besides, the empire has dissidents. Your people are begging for you to return and lead your crippling knight order empire.

 

[Brokenbone]

I really like this mod, making exploring a little tougher sure makes the world seem bigger, it's more of an achievement to make it to the "new world" or some hidden island chain or whatever.

A couple of questions (or may even be bugs?) related to what I guess you'd call "tribal" units, such as can come via the consulate buildings or just be found in the wild as barbarians.

Ninja - these are fun as scouts. However they seem to upgrade into the Longswordsman line? Is this intentional? I am down with it if so, ignoring ZOC and getting no terrain movement penalties is handy, I'll take the defense penalty in exchange for that.

Tlaxcala Jaguar - I guess they come from the Tlaxcala consulate building but I see a lot of them as barbs, they have something like a 16 strength? Oddly they upgrade into spearmen with much lower strength, maybe this is a hangover from the fact Jaguars (of an even lower strength) are the Warrior-replacement UU for what, the Aztecs? Maybe these guys should be upgrading into the Longsword area... or maybe Musketmen, can't say. It's just odd to have an upgrade go actually backwards in terms of strength.

Czambuls - can't upgrade at all. Sure, they're a poor man's knight placeholder, no horses and such, but maybe they ought have an upgrade option into Lancers or something? Eventually these are deletes, suicides, or placeholders as crummy garrisons or standing in strategic spots to interdict movement.

Dogon Sofi - these are fine, upgrade to volley gun, pretty versatile to heal nearby guys and move after attack.

Don Cossacks - I forget whether they upgrade! I had them once at least.

Sufi Elephant - cool. They are kind of expensive to upgrade into Volley Guns, considering their ranged strength is already as good as a volley gun, it just results in the other melee combat strength getting an adjustment for your gold. Still if you want to keep these guys into the gatling, machine gun, bazooka range, pay your gold!

...

I think I've had the chance to play with a lot of these special units because I often take a "heathen conversion" type power on missionaries, go hunt these little exotic units all over the place, bring home very strange looking armies.

Great mod, thanks for all the fun!

 

[kaspergm]

The Tlaxcala Jaguar upgrades into a Swordsman if you upgrade him manually. When you talk about upgrading into Spearman, was that a goody-hut upgrade? That would be similar to how it is for normal Warriors.

I think the fact that most of the other unique units didn't have a proper upgrade path was something that was a major downside with the design of this mod for me. Having units that don't upgrade just seems like a bad solution, I liked better those tribes that give unique promotions to your normal units.