Exploration Continued Expanded (Obsolete)

[JFD]

Now, what would the response be if I were to say that I am considering removing Consulates altogether? Not Tribes. Merely Consulates. Any special promotions that a Tribe originally gave would go to unique Contracts, while any unique yields (e.g. the Huron to forest, IIRC) would be distributed according to a Tribe's territory. I am working with the tenative hope that I can allow Tribal borders to specially improve the tiles within them, with the caveat that you, yourself, cannot improve them (though you can work them). You can, as well, annex and colonize Tribes, immediately or not-so-immediately incorporating them and their borders into your empire. However, with this system, I've not much care for Consulates anymore, and before I do away with it completely, I wanted to be sure nobody would miss them particularly. (and maybe with them gone Trade can return, especially now with my Merc.-derived UI skills).

 

[TranquilSilence]

If it meant the return of trade then I'd be all for the removal of Consulates. I'm curious though as to how the new system will work - will Tribal borders be semi-autonomous regions within our own borders (as in we can work and travel through them) or will they be more similar to City States, and conquering them would gain their bonuses.

If it is the latter - would their be some peaceful alternative alongside the usual military annexation of territory?

 

[Natan35]

Ummm... If it means trade is coming back(though it was always there wasn't it ) than fine. If not.... I will miss them.

 

[janboruta]

I'd like to see a new system. Seems like a more organic method of providing yields and/or rewards.

 

[JFD]

Ummm... If it means trade is coming back(though it was always there wasn't it ) than fine. If not.... I will miss them.

Well, I never did remove it entirely from the mod, just disabled it

If it meant the return of trade then I'd be all for the removal of Consulates. I'm curious though as to how the new system will work - will Tribal borders be semi-autonomous regions within our own borders (as in we can work and travel through them) or will they be more similar to City States, and conquering them would gain their bonuses.

If it is the latter - would their be some peaceful alternative alongside the usual military annexation of territory?

The idea would be that they acted as semi-autonomous regions within your borders. You may work them and you may move through them, however, you wouldn't be allowed to improve their tiles for them (and, ideally, you wouldn't be able to chop down their Jungles/Forests, but I'll have to speak to Gazebo about that). Their borders would expand over time, claiming only neutral tiles, but tiles within their borders would gain some kind of natural bonus - for instance, perhaps all tiles within the borders of the Bedouin produced extra Gold. I'm not quite sure on the point of keeping Tribes as semi-autonomous regions yet, and that's just an idea, but I definitely like the flavour of having them.

Tribes will now be identified by a banner, just like with cities. You will be able to send a Recon Unit (a la AOE III Explorer) to a Tribe in order to either Annex or Colonize them (or you can just leave them be to gain whatever benefits they give for that). Annexing would immediately give you their lands, but they will attack you in response. Colonizing them will take longer, but they also won't attack you and, once done, will grant you a city/colony in place of their Tribe, as well as their borders.

Of course, keeping them as regions will also allow you to take out exclusive Contracts with them, including of special units that come with immunities to Attrition.

 

[TranquilSilence]

That system sounds really intriguing and I'd definitely be a fan of seeing it implemented. I don't get why colonising the tribe and adding them to your empire would remove the option of hiring their special unit - if anything I feel the unit should be possible to hire in the ex-tribe city.

I can understand if it's for gameplay reasons and offering an incentive to keep the tribes semi-autonomous however.

 

[Natan35]

On other news, Spain's conquistador ignores terrain costs, has a 25% defence bonus, and has a 25% combat bonus in foreign lands. Oh, it also has no penalty vs. Cities.


(Will there be a way to limit the amount of tribes? Will they be able to claim natural wonders? Will things such as forges and stone works you build effect their land?)

 

[hokath]

Adding to the bug report on shipwrecks, I also don't see Saffron on strategic view.

 

[JFD]

On other news, Spain's conquistador ignores terrain costs, has a 25% defence bonus, and has a 25% combat bonus in foreign lands. Oh, it also has no penalty vs. Cities.


(Will there be a way to limit the amount of tribes? Will they be able to claim natural wonders? Will things such as forges and stone works you build effect their land?)

Yes, they'll claim Natural Wonders - they'll claim anything not already claimed by a civ or city-state. And yes, Forges and Stone Works and the like will effect their land, if they have the resources. Their land is just like your land, but you cannot taint it with the machinations of technology. It will remain untouched; unspoiled. Until you annex/colonize them.

The number will probably be limited by map size. However, there will only be 15-20 Tribes for which the game to choose from. Because of Mercs., some have to be cut.

Adding to the bug report on shipwrecks, I also don't see Saffron on strategic view.

Noted, thanks.

 

[Kesler]

Yes, they'll claim Natural Wonders - they'll claim anything not already claimed by a civ or city-state. And yes, Forges and Stone Works and the like will effect their land, if they have the resources. Their land is just like your land, but you cannot taint it with the machinations of technology. It will remain untouched; unspoiled. Until you annex/colonize them.

The number will probably be limited by map size. However, there will only be 15-20 Tribes for which the game to choose from. Because of Mercs., some have to be cut.



Noted, thanks.

That all sounds really cool, a third factor in the diplomatic field Which one's are being cut? (Or is that another JFD State Secret? :3) Is there any way to add a slider in Advanced Settings to adjust the number of them like City States? And could we try and up their number to 22? (Max number of civs without uncapping dll) Is there anyway we can help to find more tribes?

 

[JFD]

There wouldn't be, without creating my own Advanced Setup screen, which would naturally put me at odds with YnAEMP. So that won't be possible.

At the moment, Tribe development will have to be put to rest, as presently I cannot work around Firaxis' hardcoding of the highlight styles - i.e. those which I would use to indicate Tribal borders on the map.

 

[Kesler]

There wouldn't be, without creating my own Advanced Setup screen, which would naturally put me at odds with YnAEMP. So that won't be possible.

At the moment, Tribe development will have to be put to rest, as presently I cannot work around Firaxis' hardcoding of the highlight styles - i.e. those which I would use to indicate Tribal borders on the map.

What would it take to get into communication with Firaxis and try to find a way around that, probably pointless because changing the hard code might break the game (or at least open up a channel for true modder to dev communication)

 

[Natan35]

There wouldn't be, without creating my own Advanced Setup screen, which would naturally put me at odds with YnAEMP. So that won't be possible.

At the moment, Tribe development will have to be put to rest, as presently I cannot work around Firaxis' hardcoding of the highlight styles - i.e. those which I would use to indicate Tribal borders on the map.

Is it possible for the number of tribes to be based on the number of civs in game?
(And aren't you the current... Caretaker of YNAEMP? I don't think gedemon is planning on updating it, even though he's back...)

 

[Ixor_Drakar]

I'm not getting culture or faith from ceder and oak. I have more pantheons enabled, maybe a conflict.

 

[hokath]

Quick query. If I wanted to stop ginger spawning, for instance, could I just comment out the "insert into resources" part of the exploration_resources file? God, I hate ginger.

Also, what happened to feathers? Thought they were awesome.

 

[hokath]

So, for the record, I am experiencing a CTD with the following setup:
CPP with EUI (i.e. CIVDF, CSD, Community Patch, CBP, More Luxs, CBP compatibility)
ExCE

In the ExCE UserSettings:
changed CBP to 1
changed beliefs to zero
changed airships to 1 (because airships, amirite?)

Link to all the details

 

[JFD]

Unfortunately, your logs tell me nothing, so there's nothing that I can do...

Feathers are disabled by CBP because of the weird things they do to Trading Posts.

Commenting our Ginger should work.

 

[Senteliks]

There is definetely something related to ExCE because I had also experience CTD's until I disabled it (often before or little after turn 100). This is strange pattern and every time I also had E&D enabled beside CP/CPB/C4DF/CSD/More Lux.

Maybe because of timing, fact that game works fine now when E&D is enabled and ExCE is disabled, they somehow conflict ?

Edit:Actually there is high possibility it was E&D all along because I am still using E&D which was linked in CP thread and looking at source code I can see that version in creator thread is optimized better, when I get a chance I will try to see if this is true.

 

[JFD]

Alright, fixed a few database issues when CBP is active. Hopefully this will offer you more stability, hokath. And hopefully there's nothing in-production that I forgot to disable...

 

[hokath]

JFD, thank you so much for looking into this for me. I desperately want to run these two mods together.

Senteliks,
E&D is definitely suspect as far as Gazebo is concerned. So it is entirely possible you were experiencing a different CTD.