Thunderbrd
C2C War Dog
I like that, yes. But I'll counterpropose with some additional consideration. Aggressive, to me, seems to be a leader who would train his troops, or inspire his troops, better towards attack than defense.@Thunderbrd:
I thought about this last night, and I think you may be right, that giving Combat II off the bat is a bit OP, because of all the things it unlocks. However, I could make a new promotion, that is only given free to units of Aggressive leaders, which gives +10% strength but doesn't unlock a whole bunch of other stuff. So then Aggressive would give Free Combat I and Free Fighter (or whatever I name it). That would be incredibly easy to do. Does that sound reasonable?
So I say Combat I + Aggressive I (which also unlocks a 3 step Aggressive chain perhaps).
Aggressive I: +15% Attack Strength, -10% Defense Strength.
This means units under Aggressive leaders would be much stronger at attacking (combined, these free promos would mean out the gate a +25% stronger unit at attacking and no benefit for defending.)
The synergy between this and a Barbaric leader under my proposal would be pretty potent despite Barbaric being mostly negative. They'd have a Savage army capable of extreme power when attacking but terrible at defense. (at least at base.)
1) We'll put every trait under the microscope here so we'll get to consider those as they come up I think. With Aggressive, since its the first under close evalution, we're establishing a basic 'power quotient' against which all other promos will be judged but also trying to get it up to snuff with what we all 'sense' is the basic value of the other traits as they generally are and have been.Sure it sounds reasonable.
Do you think aggressive is underpowered? Do you think it deserves another free promotion? Just curious what the motivation to do this is.
With the crime penalty I do somewhat agree that they need a bit more of a buff though. Either way we'll put it in and maybe remove the +15% gg's.
Could you please consider doing some other unique promotions, such as seafaring instead of getting combat 1 on ships. 2 traits have free amphibious, perhaps the city raider 1 promotion. The Nomad trait has a bunch of free powerful promotions too etc etc.
2) I can agree that Agressive is slightly underpowered in comparison to say, -25% EXP needed to Promote from Charismatic and multiple decent promos from Protective and Nomadic (however those promos don't have such prerequisite unlocking power as Combat I (currently).) So yeah, this is probably a good idea to give them a second, slightly weakly powered Promo that cannot be gained any other way.
3) Since we should be evaluating traits on two levels, both ALL POSITIVE and MOSTLY POSITIVE, I think we need to keep the workup on them clearly separated and ensure that the trait is balanced either way, thus its easier to first consider just the ALL POSITIVE layout. Without any negative, I see no reason to then go beyond and establish any GG emergence benefit.
4) Then, with a slightly negative in play, we can have some GG % bonus (25% I think would be good from what you were suggesting before to push that number up a touch).
Crime penalty on Aggressive kinda makes sense but kinda doesn't. You have a leader who may have a more disgruntled public (due to being rather aggressive with neighbors so often) but also a bit more afraid of their strong leader's unyielding penalties for breaking his laws. Therefore I think the two effects would balance out to no net crime bonus or penalty. However, since we're waiting for me to get the War Weariness tag worked up, I can understand the penalty should come from somewhere so I suppose a small crime penalty like 1 crime / 2 population might be acceptable to me to balance against +25% GG emergence bonus.
So to sum up what we have so far:
Aggressive (Vanilla BtS):
- Free Combat I for Melee and Gunpowder Units
- Production bonuses for Military buildings (Barracks and Drydocks)
Aggressive (Current):
- +25% Civic Upkeep
- +15% GG Emergence
- Free Combat I for Melee, Gunpowder, Hi-Tech, and Assault Mech Units
- Production bonuses for Military buildings
- +10 crime in City if Crime > 200
Aggressive (ls612 changed to):
- +15% GG Emergence
- Free Combat I and Combat II for Melee, Gunpowder, Hi-Tech, and Assault Mech Units
- Production bonuses for Military buildings
And now we have the following models on the table (a game option would allow for choice between the two):
Aggressive (All Positive):
- Free Combat I AND Aggressive I (+15% Attack, -10% Defense) for Melee, Gunpowder, Hi-Tech, and Assault Mech Units
- I'm suggesting we change the above to: all Combatant units (requires defining all Combat intended units with the 'Combatant' sub-combat class (as opposed to Civilian))
- Same Production bonuses as current
Aggressive (Mostly Positive)):
- +25% GG Emergence
- +1 crime / 2 population OR +25% War Weariness incurred during war
- Free Combat I AND Aggressive I (+15% Attack, -10% Defense) for Melee, Gunpowder, Hi-Tech, and Assault Mech Units
- I'm suggesting we change the above to: all Combatant units (requires defining all Combat intended units with the 'Combatant' sub-combat class (as opposed to Civilian))
- Same Production bonuses as current
There's still some points to discuss mentioned here. Otherwise, is this looking good for everyone?