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ExtraModMod

Discussion in 'More Naval AI Modmod' started by Terkhen, Jan 19, 2013.

  1. Terkhen

    Terkhen King

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    0.4.1 is now available!

    After a long wait, 0.4.1 has been released. It fixes a small number of important bugs which were complicated to reproduce, such as the problem with Divided Souls and supply costs, or allowing to dispel the new node types. It includes two new UI features: displaying the number of gold per city for the Khazad and displaying the maximum number of cities for the Kuriotates. The Warrens have been reverted to their vanilla behavior, and the number of Kuriotate cities per map size and the number of cities required for the Kuriotates to move their palace around have been tweaked.

    As usual, a new version of EMM means a new merge with More Naval AI, in this case 2.53 with a few additional changes from development versions. Among other things, the new MNAI brings many bugfixes, AI improvements and it also allows teams to build the Tower of Mastery even if the other towers have been built by different teammates.

    You can find the changelog here:

    https://bitbucket.org/Terkhen/extramodmod/wiki/Changelog

    In the first post of this thread you can find the links for downloads, wiki, Features, future plans and other useful information.
     
  2. [to_xp]Gekko

    [to_xp]Gekko QCT junkie

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    well done Terkhen! this should be awesome for multiplayer :)
     
  3. Qgqqqqq

    Qgqqqqq Emperor

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    Gekko, you're playing an AC rush wrong. If you are trying to squeeze as much AC raise as possible out of the city - as you should - then don't muck around with pyre zombies. I'm not surprised they are a struggle to mads. Instead, you should be building warriors, or, if Clan goblins, which should let you pump it for all its worth. I'm not in a position to test it, but I can imagine that this would easily be a problem.

    Update looks awesome, Terkhen :)

    (I do play with AI No Unit Level/Building Requirements most of the time. I thought the mage issue had been fixed?)

    Oh and I too cam3 here long after autocaatung had been removed, so I have no idea why/what problems were with it, but if you could find an efficient way for it to work then that would be so helpful.
     
  4. [to_xp]Gekko

    [to_xp]Gekko QCT junkie

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    warriors would go rogue at AC 90 and die at AC 100, which would decrease the AC a lot. I like to cast Worldbreak with the AC at 100 :D Clan should probably spam diseased corpses to avoid that, which is one of the reasons why I think making warrens only work on living units is a bad idea.

    Autocasting was introduced by Sephi in Wild Mana, and it added some buttons which if clicked would make the unit cast the spell at the beginning of each turn, until you click it again and disable the automation. it certainly made magic a lot more enjoyable to use removing useless micromanagement. but Kael didn't like the new buttons cluttering the interface so it was removed shortly after the Wild Mana merge ( basically, vanilla FFH's AI is Sephi's. it was atrociously bad before that merge ) . the <AutoCast> tag is still in the game in civ4spellinfos.xml but I tried setting it to 1 and it didn't work so I guess it was disabled in the DLL.
     
  5. Qgqqqqq

    Qgqqqqq Emperor

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    No offence, but that is not a good reason to not use warriors. Why? Firstly they die at AC 100. This has only an affect on the AC for the purposes of worldbreak or Planar Gates, neither of which are sufficient, imo, for effectively doubling or tripling the amount of time until you reach that threshold. And at 90...who cares? They are dispensable units, unlikely to die too fast and will at least take some time to reach the front let alone die, so hopefully you can reach 100 before that happens anyway.
     
  6. [to_xp]Gekko

    [to_xp]Gekko QCT junkie

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    I'll have to try goblins in a city with warrens I guess :lol:

    Could Orthus be changes to spawn in a spot with a medium-ish wilderness level? that would make sure he gets some XP via Hero before he starts rampaging, and a few promos make him that much more formidable :)
     
  7. Freesmog

    Freesmog Skeptic1938222569

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    I didn't realize it had been fixed. I haven't tried it in awhile, and never with EMM.
     
  8. Lorak

    Lorak Chieftain

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    Hey guys, I just have a quick question. I've recently gotten re-addicted to FFH2, and I only play it multiplayer with my friends. Is EMM as stable for multiplayer as the regular More Naval AI mod is?

    Thanks a bunch in advance.
     
  9. [to_xp]Gekko

    [to_xp]Gekko QCT junkie

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    yes, with the latest release EMM should have solved every single OOS issue there was in multiplayer.
     
  10. Terkhen

    Terkhen King

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    There are two known remaining OOS issues in both More Naval AI and ExtraModMod. Check the first post of this thread for details:

    http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=486409
     
  11. Ororo

    Ororo King

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    I would like to resurrect the FFH Challenge series that I have been hosting in the FFH strategy and tips subforum. I would most likely use the ExtraModMod to roll the saves.

    Would you guys be interested in joining in?
     
  12. Jojo_Fr

    Jojo_Fr Warlord

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    Hello Terkhen,

    Thank you very much for your work.

    - I would like to play much more balanced games and for that I got some propositions. I know some could be difficult to code, or a codder could just be not interested by working in this direction. But I writte these propositions here clearly because I guess they could largely improve the popularity and the pleasure of FFH2 in multiplayer.

    - I played some multiplayer games on ladder level of Beyond the Sword, and some multiplayer games with Fall From Heaven 2 into all his mods (Master of Mana, Erebus on the Balance and ExtraModmod).

    - Here are the critics and propositions. They are valid for Erebus in the Balance or FFH2 Extra Modmod, cause they are not so much differents : Link.


    I would like modestely please you say here what you think about these critics and propositions. And please pardon my harsh style, wich is mainly due to my bad usage of the english.
     
  13. Terkhen

    Terkhen King

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    Although I don't participate in those, I like reading the posts you made, and it would be great to read about what experienced players do with the features that ExtraModMod provides :)

    Thank you, you are welcome :)

    As I have mentioned before I'm not a very experienced player in competitive MP so I don't believe that I'm very qualified to judge changes of such proportions (this is why I resort to EitB and opinions on this thread in order to tweak the balance of stuff I consider unbalanced in vanilla FFH/EMM). I'll try to give a useful opinion anyways.

    Regardless of balance, I don't like the changes you propose because I think they alter the game too much. I believe that it will be possible to have a better balance by making iterative changes slowly and after playtesting them, and without having to modify too much stuff like key aspects of the game (such as magic) or civilizations (such as the Kuriotates or the Sidar). EitB is an example of this approach that I consider quite successful.

    With regard to the design approach to balance you are taking in those changes, I must say that I never liked the "nerf until it is balanced" approach. I think that the fight broken with broken approach (applied in reasonable measures, of course) is more suited to Fall from Heaven 2 (in which in most cases each civilization has its own special stuff) and results in more interesting games.

    Last but not least, with regard to the changes themselves, I find myself either disagreeing about those points being unbalanced in the first case (in for example the Kuriotate and Sidar changes), not being able to know for sure if a specific point is unbalanced or not, or believing that the change is too huge to be considered feasible to implement and playtest in a way that guarantees that it is balanced (such as the magic change).
     
  14. Jojo_Fr

    Jojo_Fr Warlord

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    Ok. Thank you.

    - The main problem is there is very few players who play in multi, so a considerable MP patch would concern very few people. So why making this work ? You or any other people don't seem motivated by that (and me I have no coding skill^^).

    - The idea of "fighting the broken by the broken" don't feat for the concret situations in the game. For exemple, you cannot fight a raider cavalery army especially in double move. The best what you do, is having yourself a large cavalery force, and/or trying to kill his own cityes.

    It is the same problem with Sidar teleport (and Sidar invisibilty). If the argument is not say "Yeah it's broken, but you can take a raider civ / orcs rush etc. and attack him before him, I dont agree with the "Broken Fighting".

    - An OK broken fighting, is for exemple the Calabim Vampires : they are strong and very dangerous for a long period of the game, but you can defend with some units, as catapult or magic, and in end games, vampires became weaker.


    - I think me and the others people with who I played, will continue playing by using more and more specitics rules, to ban the insane broken things because I don't thing a technical solution (a patch) will one day be done about our problems. :)
     
  15. Calavente

    Calavente Richard's voice

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    Jojo:
    I disagree that those "raider-mounted units" are broken.
    play a normal-size map, maybe "erebus continent".

    you can easily block those guys using the few chokepoints, or creating them : castle on hill + city + castle. defend those hard, use longbows with CD1 and CD2,and palisade, walls and castle, and archery range (40-70% defense), promote your longbows with drill promotions (for the first strike, and mainly the defensive strikes).
    and if you lose the city, it doesn't matter really, it stopped them and you can then launch your coutner: mage with Air II or ratha with blinding light, or adept with slow, or druid with entangle. or even catapults.

    for sidar severed souls: what is the matter ? in normal maps you often have spaces that have 2 or more water/mountain tiles... severed souls can't pass through that.

    you know you play against sidar and fear ghosts: found deis-dei / get Empy priests ... and if you don't want to go to that religion (why would you not get the one trick that easily counter your ennemy I don't understand): have a few scouts-hunters (2-3 is sufficient) promoted the vision-line (3 promotions is not much) / use malakim... get guardsman promotion / get earth II on all your mages ! .
    for this: grigori have it easy : hero scout / malakim also, svart also (easy to get scouts highly promoted with +1attack) / any FoL can also do it : fawn/satyr can get promoted there/ hippus/kurios have empy near their unit-line...etc

    so what is the issue : you have a sidar ennemy... you build the counter to that ennemy (empy or vision line scouts). it is normal for every games.

    It is even easier in your competitive duel-games as you only have one ennemy... you know it's strengths and thus can adapt to it.

    even if you know you have kurios in front of you.. it is easy : promote all your units with formation 1 and 2... you take no risk, you KNOW all those units of him/her will be centaurs..., same with raider hippus : YOU know he will attack like that : create a road network as light as possible, and as roundabout as possible...

    So while I agree that some things could be tweaked... I disagree that your fears are as unbalanced as you say.
    especially they are not unbalanced in normal sinlge or MP games when you use "normal settings": normal-large map, multiple players (you can't attack without fear of the third/fourth guy back-stabbing you).
     
  16. Terkhen

    Terkhen King

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  17. [to_xp]Gekko

    [to_xp]Gekko QCT junkie

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  18. Jojo_Fr

    Jojo_Fr Warlord

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    Ok I stop speaking about that. Thank you.

    Calavente to make a long answer short : I am pretty sure you lack of true experience of gaming on competitive settings, if you had it you would not say suggestions as you say. The only thing with what I agree is the "Erebus Continuent" advise (I prefer use it too, cause it is much more RP and anti cavalery).
     
  19. [to_xp]Gekko

    [to_xp]Gekko QCT junkie

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    Erebus Continent and competitive MP in the same sentence? surely you must be joking :lol:
     
  20. Jojo_Fr

    Jojo_Fr Warlord

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    post deleted
     

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