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[to_xp]Gekko
QCT junkie
shouldn't Citizen's Forums get built faster with ORG rather than PHI since they're a courthouse UB ? it would make ORG more useful and better balance Koun and Cassiel.
But that's the thing isn't it?
Courthouses come WAY after the first switch .... So while org is one of
The traits Cassiel might want later on, it does nothing in the first 45-50 turns.
Mnai and eitb switch at t76 (which is still usually too early for courthouses), while extra switches at t47 (which is Way too early for anything other than Cha/def/agg/exp and cultural)
Courthouses come WAY after the first switch .... So while org is one of
The traits Cassiel might want later on, it does nothing in the first 45-50 turns.
Mnai and eitb switch at t76 (which is still usually too early for courthouses), while extra switches at t47 (which is Way too early for anything other than Cha/def/agg/exp and cultural)
[to_xp]Gekko;12693489 said:I don't think that religious behaviour is intended, just a byproduct of the current AI. a bit more variety definitely wouldn't hurt
It is true that they are far too dominant. I created an issue to solve this problem. I don't think that I will lower them to OO level, though. Maybe 80.
[to_xp]Gekko;12693489 said:
I'd prefer to not remove abilities from Chalid. I also feel that Honor is too soon for a hero with Pillar of Fire. What about nerfing his sun affinity to +1 and moving him to Religious Law?
[to_xp]Gekko;12693489 said:
I still find it pretty useful, but I guess that it is less useful now. Something should be done, but maybe besides increasing the yields it gives in town it could also do something when held by a unit. Right now no one uses the spell to get weapons.
[to_xp]Gekko;12694416 said:
I just checked EitB and both of these promotions have 30 there too.
[to_xp]Gekko;12694416 said:
I agree; in my experience Lightbringers are not that useful and this would give the Malakim an early boost which IMO they need.
[to_xp]Gekko;12695303 said:
I created another issue for this
(https://bitbucket.org/Terkhen/extramodmod/issue/89/reliquaries-and-citizen-forums-are-lacking)After discussing this for so long I think that this is the best option. Cassiel's new combination is free after Einion's change and I'd prefer to not change the Sidar.
[to_xp]Gekko;12696416 said:
Agreed. I have created another issue for this.
By the way, do you think that Mardero is weak in comparison with Sphener?
[to_xp]Gekko
QCT junkie
sun affinity 1 at Religious Law for Chalid seems right
I like giving one hammer to Barnaxus, but yeah aside from that there's little reason to give em to units.
it's true that potency and favored are both 30 in Eitb right now, but I believe that's not intended. I've asked away in the RB forums so as soon as Sareln answers we'll know
even though I like SPI/CRE Varn, consider that gives him the same traits as Arendel so CHA might be better. SPI/FIN would fit well, too bad Riuros already has that
I haven't tried Sphener and Mardero yet, but I see Mardero has 2 less combat strength than Sphener. then again, Malevolent Designs seems like a better tech than Righteousness.
A tech I really believe needs a beaker cost boost is Hidden Paths, it was great before and it got Kythra and Satyrs added to it. pretty damn cheap for all it gives now.
I like giving one hammer to Barnaxus, but yeah aside from that there's little reason to give em to units.
it's true that potency and favored are both 30 in Eitb right now, but I believe that's not intended. I've asked away in the RB forums so as soon as Sareln answers we'll know
even though I like SPI/CRE Varn, consider that gives him the same traits as Arendel so CHA might be better. SPI/FIN would fit well, too bad Riuros already has that
I haven't tried Sphener and Mardero yet, but I see Mardero has 2 less combat strength than Sphener. then again, Malevolent Designs seems like a better tech than Righteousness.
A tech I really believe needs a beaker cost boost is Hidden Paths, it was great before and it got Kythra and Satyrs added to it. pretty damn cheap for all it gives now.
Speaking of mardero vs sphener - at the time of arriving to the scene:especially mardero via well known trick( rushing malevolent designs) - mardero as a combat unit is not only useful but can lead armies, so to speak, sphener - one of late game heroes - usually has to attack or defend versus late game units and in this situation he is only marginally useful even if promoted from AoL wonder XP. sure, sphener waists no time vs demons and undeads but against of others .... mardero on the other hand, is useful in many ways...
So there is a bug or error if you try to put ingenuity in the changeable slot for an Adaptive leader?
[to_xp]Gekko
QCT junkie
Illians get a golden age when they cast Stasis. I'm not sure if this is a MNAI bug or comes from the Eitb merge.
[to_xp]Gekko;12697573 said:sun affinity 1 at Religious Law for Chalid seems right
Okay, I created an issue for this.
[to_xp]Gekko;12697573 said:
Since those changes are related to EitB, it may be worthwhile to discuss them in the EitB thread for inclusion in EitB 10 along with the Potency/Favored issue
I was thinking that maybe Mardero was weak in comparison with Sphener, but that makes sense
I have not tested it, but I don't think that it would break. You would just never be able to go back to Ingenuity after the first Adaptive popup.
[to_xp]Gekko;12706653 said:
It is not a MNAI bug; either it comes from EitB or from ExtraModMod. Stasis duration is halved but they get a Golden Age.
[to_xp]Gekko
QCT junkie
any eta on your next release?
Tholal has put out a couple new DLL changes it'd be nice to have lately ( although he didn't fix Clan druids lacking Entangle yet ) . I really hope you'll change Blinding Light to a promotion so it does something in singleplayer. Btw, I've tested it and that 60% resist modify already makes it almost useless, very hard for it to trigger since I think enemy strength and XP also lower the chance of triggering. I think 45 would work better there.
you can probably remove Savage from Doviello, they are already nicely buffed in eitb ( although I like the tundra/ice bonus for flavour starts )
I heartily recommend changing the clan flavour values in erebuscontinents to be the way they are in worldofererebus instead, it means they will have a lot less jungle around their start. they're actually unplayable in default erebuscontinent due to that.
I also hope you're going to include beastman->battlemaster direct upgrade and metal weapons for demagogs, less downtime is always nice btw there's another bugfix Tholal didn't include yet which is having enclaves not spawn demagogs with rally worldspell.
why does Erebuscontinent not allow to change settings like cohesion etc?
Tholal has put out a couple new DLL changes it'd be nice to have lately ( although he didn't fix Clan druids lacking Entangle yet ) . I really hope you'll change Blinding Light to a promotion so it does something in singleplayer. Btw, I've tested it and that 60% resist modify already makes it almost useless, very hard for it to trigger since I think enemy strength and XP also lower the chance of triggering. I think 45 would work better there.
you can probably remove Savage from Doviello, they are already nicely buffed in eitb ( although I like the tundra/ice bonus for flavour starts )
I heartily recommend changing the clan flavour values in erebuscontinents to be the way they are in worldofererebus instead, it means they will have a lot less jungle around their start. they're actually unplayable in default erebuscontinent due to that.
I also hope you're going to include beastman->battlemaster direct upgrade and metal weapons for demagogs, less downtime is always nice
btw there's another bugfix Tholal didn't include yet which is having enclaves not spawn demagogs with rally worldspell.why does Erebuscontinent not allow to change settings like cohesion etc?
Chalid is currently 2 affinity Sun @ Righteousness correct?
I feel that Chalid at Religous Law with 1 affinity Sun and 1 affinity Fire (both giving Fire Strength), WITHOUT Crown of Brilliance, and then can use Crown of Brilliance at Theology (the spell simply having an additional tech requirement), and Pillar of Fire at Righteousness.
CoB uses holy damage (only way for Chalid to hurt Avatar of Wrath btw), while PoF uses fire damage (obviously). The spell damage types are already that way, I'm just reiterating it.
Pillar of Fire could also be used by Order priors at Righteousness if that is determined to be fair ... will be included in EitB v10, and is also Lore appropriate.
Unyielding Order could always be a secondary Law3 spell for those that research Theology (would require UO requiring both Theology and Law3, meaning that Priors should start with Law3, which means that Priors would be able to cast Valor as well ... probably not the most gamebreaking of things). ---> UO at Theology means that Priors would require no further tech investment to use their innate spell. Valor would remain the Law3 spell for Archmages of nations that have not yet researched UO ... and Priors of a nation with Righteousness would allow them to use Pillar of Fire (as was intended by Order Inquisitors in the original version).
Are liches at Malevolent Designs? Seems a good spot tbh (Death3 and Malevolent Designs) Either Malevolent Designs, or perhaps Divine Essence ... especially if you make Liches <bimmortal>. Imho liches should be either <bimmortal> or just start with the immortality promotion (which I like to call pheonix blood or pheonix down to prevent confusion, since its really a 'one shot second life'. I personally prefer that Liches start with the pheonix down promotion, because it makes it less OP (as an immortal t4 caster may well be OP) yet it at least gives them some sense of immortality, such as how it is used with Hyborem.
I feel that Chalid at Religous Law with 1 affinity Sun and 1 affinity Fire (both giving Fire Strength), WITHOUT Crown of Brilliance, and then can use Crown of Brilliance at Theology (the spell simply having an additional tech requirement), and Pillar of Fire at Righteousness.
CoB uses holy damage (only way for Chalid to hurt Avatar of Wrath btw), while PoF uses fire damage (obviously). The spell damage types are already that way, I'm just reiterating it.
Pillar of Fire could also be used by Order priors at Righteousness if that is determined to be fair ... will be included in EitB v10, and is also Lore appropriate.
Unyielding Order could always be a secondary Law3 spell for those that research Theology (would require UO requiring both Theology and Law3, meaning that Priors should start with Law3, which means that Priors would be able to cast Valor as well ... probably not the most gamebreaking of things). ---> UO at Theology means that Priors would require no further tech investment to use their innate spell. Valor would remain the Law3 spell for Archmages of nations that have not yet researched UO ... and Priors of a nation with Righteousness would allow them to use Pillar of Fire (as was intended by Order Inquisitors in the original version).
Are liches at Malevolent Designs? Seems a good spot tbh (Death3 and Malevolent Designs) Either Malevolent Designs, or perhaps Divine Essence ... especially if you make Liches <bimmortal>. Imho liches should be either <bimmortal> or just start with the immortality promotion (which I like to call pheonix blood or pheonix down to prevent confusion, since its really a 'one shot second life'. I personally prefer that Liches start with the pheonix down promotion, because it makes it less OP (as an immortal t4 caster may well be OP) yet it at least gives them some sense of immortality, such as how it is used with Hyborem.
[to_xp]Gekko
QCT junkie
I think Liches are already at divine essence in EMM
he's already stated he doesn't like having abilities become available with techs so that's out. imo the best way would be to get Chalid at Honor without channeling 3 ( no crown of brilliance, valor or aurealis ) . since druids are going to lose channeling 3 so that high priests give something new ( rather than upgrading priests to druids and getting the best of both worlds ) , this seems like the best approach because it keeps chalid with his signature pillar and keeps the crown of brilliance unique to the Luridus.
on the topic of flavourstars, I think Illians should get +1 hammer on plains in order for them to be competitive on erebuscontinent/worldoferebus where they'll start in tundraland ( snow bonus is not very useful there since there's a lot more tundra than snow ) . Doviello could lose the snow bonus for the same reason, it's not very useful as it's the +1 tundra food that's vital.
he's already stated he doesn't like having abilities become available with techs so that's out. imo the best way would be to get Chalid at Honor without channeling 3 ( no crown of brilliance, valor or aurealis ) . since druids are going to lose channeling 3 so that high priests give something new ( rather than upgrading priests to druids and getting the best of both worlds ) , this seems like the best approach because it keeps chalid with his signature pillar and keeps the crown of brilliance unique to the Luridus.
on the topic of flavourstars, I think Illians should get +1 hammer on plains in order for them to be competitive on erebuscontinent/worldoferebus where they'll start in tundraland ( snow bonus is not very useful there since there's a lot more tundra than snow ) . Doviello could lose the snow bonus for the same reason, it's not very useful as it's the +1 tundra food that's vital.
[to_xp]Gekko;12707928 said:any eta on your next release?
With the great amount of feedback I've been getting lately, the amount of stuff to implement and test for the next version has grown a lot
This means that I can't give you a clear ETA for next release. It shouldn't take long, though.
[to_xp]Gekko;12707928 said:
The next version will as usual include all changes made by Tholal in MNAI SVN. I prefer to not fix in ExtraModMod stuff that Tholal is going to fix too because that would be duplicating work. I'll be reporting some MNAI bugs that I found to Tholal as soon as I manage to reproduce them and code a fix. After the fixes (made by Tholal, anyone else interested or me) are included in MNAI, ExtraModMod will get them in the next merge anyways.
[to_xp]Gekko;12707928 said:
What bothers me about the proposed solution is that coding a new promotion for each one of the blocking spells (two if you take into account the suggested "immunity" promotion) along with artwork, titles and info is tedious and seems hackish.
[to_xp]Gekko;12707928 said:
In my last games the Doviello were performing better than I expected in ExtraModMod, but I don't think that the EitB buffs are enough to save them from Oblivion. The +1 food on tundras and ice is more of a necessity given the starts they are usually given and that we like to use Illian/Doviello teams a lot in MP (either as adversaries or to play as them).
I like having Doviello with Savage, although as I mentioned I agree that it may be too much of a benefit right now. One of the less obvious benefits of Savage is allowing to select Fear after reaching Combat V. Having many units with high levels and Fear allows the Doviello to scatter units far more easily and thus have an easier time when dealing with SoD's. The removal of the Savage -> Fear promotion upgrade path should IMO be enough.
If this solution is adopted, Mahon the Butcher (who is already a somewhat lackluster leader) would need either a change in traits or the addition of a lesser third trait.
[to_xp]Gekko;12707928 said:
Erebus continent is included "as is" because it was requested. I don't know much about mapscripts (the code is somewhat messy and I don't understand the entry points to it very clearly). The changes you mention sound good; if I'm provided with an updated version of the mapscript I'll include it
[to_xp]Gekko;12707928 said:I also hope you're going to include beastman->battlemaster direct upgrade and metal weapons for demagogs, less downtime is always nice
I have created an issue for the beastman->battlemaster spell. Demagogs can use all metals in ExtraModMod and IIRC they work in the same way in MNAI.
Yes.
IMO having spells enabled at different technologies is quite confusing. I guess that if changes of this kind are going to be included in EitB I could also include them in ExtraModMod even if I don't like them much. For Chalid I'll adopt the solution EitB 10 is going to use.
Why do you think that both Priors and the Law sphere need a buff? I guess that Law is somewhat weak, but Priors already get 2 spells while other priests only have 1.
They are at Divine Essence (EitB 10 change IIRC). I've seen them being built since I moved them to Malevolent Designs, I have not seen them either with Divine Essence. This means that they probably need some kind of nice buff. Getting a one shot resurrection may be it.
[to_xp]Gekko
QCT junkie
you don't need all that stuff for blinding light, and the other blocking spells are much less of an issue since they can only be used by national units. therefore all you really need is this is civ4spellinfos.xml:
and this in civ4promotioninfos.xml :
what I meant about demagogs is them starting with metal weapons when they pop from towns ( crusade/rally ) if metals are available in the nearby city. in python/CustomFunctions.py :
and in python/screens/CvSpellInterface.py :
its actually strange that only Rally applies religions to them, I think Crusade should do that as well.
I'm also attaching an edited erebuscontinent with the changes mentioned above for clan
this is the beastman->battlemaster code for civ4spellinfos.xml:
and this is Entangle for Clan druid UU, civ4spellinfos.xml again :
Malakim worldspell gives assassins if you're Esus, this made sense when they didn't have access to assassins but now they do. therefore imo it should give nigthwatches instead.
I'd recommend changing cure disease spell to only remove diseased rather than also plagued and withered ( it makes those rare abilities too weak ) . instead, I think the aquae sucellus should cure all three, likewise the pool of tears ( withered instead of poison ) . Herbalists could remove poison, infirmaries disease and Asylums enraged.
Odio's prison could become a super fort since it gives strength to nearby units ( you could remove that so it only benefits the owner )
Spoiler :
and this in civ4promotioninfos.xml :
Spoiler :
what I meant about demagogs is them starting with metal weapons when they pop from towns ( crusade/rally ) if metals are available in the nearby city. in python/CustomFunctions.py :
Spoiler :
and in python/screens/CvSpellInterface.py :
Spoiler :
its actually strange that only Rally applies religions to them, I think Crusade should do that as well.
I'm also attaching an edited erebuscontinent with the changes mentioned above for clan
this is the beastman->battlemaster code for civ4spellinfos.xml:
Spoiler :
and this is Entangle for Clan druid UU, civ4spellinfos.xml again :
Spoiler :
Malakim worldspell gives assassins if you're Esus, this made sense when they didn't have access to assassins but now they do. therefore imo it should give nigthwatches instead.
I'd recommend changing cure disease spell to only remove diseased rather than also plagued and withered ( it makes those rare abilities too weak ) . instead, I think the aquae sucellus should cure all three, likewise the pool of tears ( withered instead of poison ) . Herbalists could remove poison, infirmaries disease and Asylums enraged.
Odio's prison could become a super fort since it gives strength to nearby units ( you could remove that so it only benefits the owner )
I only think that Law3 needs a buff. (Did we already buff Spirit3 or was that in another mod?)
I only thought that by tying the original UO to Law3 (and giving Priors Law3) we could avoid having to make two versions of the same spell (unyielding order). But ... it may be worth it in order to keep Priors from having the Valor spell. Priors having UO upon creation and Pillar of Fire when Righteousness is researched is the accepted v10 approach.
By the Spirit3 buff, there was a separate spell in addition to 'Trust' (which is useless in MP) which increased a City's GPP rate by 50% (and possibly removes/blocks enraged from units within the city).
I only thought that by tying the original UO to Law3 (and giving Priors Law3) we could avoid having to make two versions of the same spell (unyielding order). But ... it may be worth it in order to keep Priors from having the Valor spell. Priors having UO upon creation and Pillar of Fire when Righteousness is researched is the accepted v10 approach.
By the Spirit3 buff, there was a separate spell in addition to 'Trust' (which is useless in MP) which increased a City's GPP rate by 50% (and possibly removes/blocks enraged from units within the city).
[to_xp]Gekko
QCT junkie
Illumination from eitb for spirit 3 is already included
it's true Law3 is weak, I think it could work similar to illumination instead ( unyielding order effect that grants valor to units in the city. you could also give make Valor the bannor race like MC does, I like that change a lot )
Priors could get Pillar of Fire instead of unyielding order, since with social order available early Order should have no happiness issues, and who wants to leave high priests at home? so essentially all it does is pop cities out of revolt which any disciple can do.
it's true Law3 is weak, I think it could work similar to illumination instead ( unyielding order effect that grants valor to units in the city. you could also give make Valor the bannor race like MC does, I like that change a lot )
Priors could get Pillar of Fire instead of unyielding order, since with social order available early Order should have no happiness issues, and who wants to leave high priests at home? so essentially all it does is pop cities out of revolt which any disciple can do.
Edit:
Keep Priors in their v10 incarnation (UO, with PoF at Righteousness)
and add a UO effect to the Valor spell WHEN its cast in cities (but allow it to be cast outside cities, if possible, for just the promotion effect)
Keep Priors in their v10 incarnation (UO, with PoF at Righteousness)
and add a UO effect to the Valor spell WHEN its cast in cities (but allow it to be cast outside cities, if possible, for just the promotion effect)
LightofAbraxas
Chieftain
- Joined
- Sep 9, 2011
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Hey guys,
If someone hypothetically wanted to remove the new magic spheres, where would he find the code for the mana bar? Or would be removing the xml references be enough?
If someone hypothetically wanted to remove the new magic spheres, where would he find the code for the mana bar? Or would be removing the xml references be enough?
I would start with removing all references in the XML.
That might be enough and the spaces might just be left blank ... but if there is a .py error, or if there are little pink boxes, then you may have to erase some python as well (just the parts that deal with the graphical interface I think, or maybe even gameoptions)
Honestly, I wouldn't start out DELETING all refernces, but rather deleting all CONTENT of those references, or rather setting all content to 0, -1, or the like.
In that way, the manas still 'exist' but are never used
(Just make sure that you delete all worker actions related to the three extra spheres)
That might be enough and the spaces might just be left blank ... but if there is a .py error, or if there are little pink boxes, then you may have to erase some python as well (just the parts that deal with the graphical interface I think, or maybe even gameoptions)
Honestly, I wouldn't start out DELETING all refernces, but rather deleting all CONTENT of those references, or rather setting all content to 0, -1, or the like.
In that way, the manas still 'exist' but are never used
(Just make sure that you delete all worker actions related to the three extra spheres)
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