FACEOFF: Science VS Evolution

[puglover]

Originally posted by Wyrmshadow
The problem with argueing for evolution has got nothing to do with its scientific merits or even established facts. The audience that needs to be convinced of it's theoreticaly accuracy will NEVER accept it. Have you ever tried to debate face to face with a Creationist? It is frustrating to say the least! They are pigheaded, stubborn, REFUSE to accept ANYTHING contrary to what they have been taught their entire simple lives.

Bible Thumper "Show me a transitional fossil!!!"
Evolution Proponent "Here's an animal that is halway between a wolflike creature and a dolfin."
BT "That's not a transitional fossil! Don't lie!. That's just some animal or its fake. Geology has PROVED the earth is only 6000 years old and that the Grand Canyon was made during Noah's flood and the earth is flat and its' my God given right to marry my sister" and so forth and so on.

1) I don't believe the earth is flat.
2) I don't think the world is 6000 years old. It doesn't make sense.
3) To prove evolution, finding one transitional fossil isn't enough. How many stages would a lizard have to go through to become a bird? Millions. One won't cut it.
4) Don't troll like that.

 

[Pontiuth Pilate]

If I "see with my own two eyes" a neon pink elephant scrounging in a dumpster in back of McDonalds for food with Ronald Reagan and Elvis Presley sitting on its back, does that mean I've been having a little too much of something or other? No, it means I'm having a "religious/spiritual/mystical experience". From now on I'm going to worship that pink elephant, Praise be unto Him.

The primitives weren't actually guessing.

Of course not. They were "seeing with their own two eyes", right?

Also, paleontologists can be just as stupid as primitives.

Wisdom is out of place in a fool Paleontologists have the capability to, yes, act stupid, from time to time at least. OTOH, the very definition OF a primitive is that he doesn't know what he's been smoking or what pi is.

Frankly, both beliefs are faith-based. Neither has actual evidence to back up their claims. We were never there when these things happened.

Please, don't bring us down to your level. How do you know Mark Twain existed, if you didn't follow him around all his life?

Calling evolution a "faith" or "belief" derogatively - and, otoh, trying to prove religion through pseudoscientific methods - is merely proof that deep down, even religious people accept that empiricism is superior to faith.

 

[Perfection]

Originally posted by puglover
3) To prove evolution, finding one transitional fossil isn't enough. How many stages would a lizard have to go through to become a bird? Millions. One won't cut it.

We could plot points all day, but you'd never interpolate.

 

[onejayhawk]

This topic needs a rest. Try again next year. Some new voices will be around by then.

J

 

[puglover]

Originally posted by Pontiuth Pilate
Please, don't bring us down to your level. How do you know Mark Twain existed, if you didn't follow him around all his life?

Yeah. But there is evidence he existed.

As for the "primitives seeing with own two eyes" thing, I meant that the primitives SAW God, they SAW his miracles, and they SAW what God could do. They worshipped God. They told their children to. That was how religion was born.

 

[Wyrmshadow]

Originally posted by puglover


1) I don't believe the earth is flat.
2) I don't think the world is 6000 years old. It doesn't make sense.
3) To prove evolution, finding one transitional fossil isn't enough. How many stages would a lizard have to go through to become a bird? Millions. One won't cut it.
4) Don't troll like that.

I was not trolling, I was adding my own personal experience with it. And thank you NOT for cutting off the last part of my quote. And there was about 30 million years between the wolf that lived in the ancient nile delta and modern day cetaceans. And on that long trip there have been some ugly fossils with webbed toes and a nose halfway up the snout until it finally ended up near the top of the head. Whale have vestigal hind legs, small bones floating out of place not connected to anything near their pelvises.

It is in my opinion that I have formed over the long years that religion is the invention of scared and stupid primatives. Todays religions are a progression of those primatives. Everyone has one. You would be hard pressed to find a tribe ANYWHERE on this globe that does not have its own creation and god stories. The same sort of behavior has been seen in chimps by Jane Goodall when some chimps saw a waterfall and reacted with a sense of "awe". Primatives invented a powerful god because they needed something to explain why their environment was cruel around them, they needed a simple reason to explain everything they could not. Why does it rain? God made it so. Why are there babies created: A miracle from god!

I for one refuse to live my life under the restrictions and hangups of some bedouin from 6000 years ago. Man was not created by a god but god certainly was created by man. And I think its even dumber to kill each other over who has the better imaginary friend. And as for many of the "miracles" atested to in scripture, surely looked like heavenly manifestations to primatives, but these days sound more like UFO encounters.

 

[Pontiuth Pilate]

Yeah. But there is evidence he existed.

Bingo. And there's evidence that a lot of stuff that directly contradicts the Bible happened. For example, it's obvious that there once existed animals that are now extinct. That birds came after lizards, not before. etc.

As for the "primitives seeing with own two eyes" thing, I meant that the primitives SAW God, they SAW his miracles, and they SAW what God could do. They worshipped God. They told their children to. That was how religion was born.

OK. But how is that different from MY experiences? After all I SAW the pink elephant, I WITNESSED Him rooting around in that dumpster, and I even TALKED to Him. So how's it different? According to ME, that wasn't a hallucination, that was a new Prophet of the Lord.

 

[puglover]

Originally posted by Pontiuth Pilate
Bingo. And there's evidence that a lot of stuff that directly contradicts the Bible happened. For example, it's obvious that there once existed animals that are now extinct. That birds came after lizards, not before. etc.

No. There isn't.

Some animals are extinct. So? What does that prove?

And how are you so sure that birds came after lizards?

 

[puglover]

Originally posted by Pontiuth Pilate
OK. But how is that different from MY experiences? After all I SAW the pink elephant, I WITNESSED Him rooting around in that dumpster, and I even TALKED to Him. So how's it different? According to ME, that wasn't a hallucination, that was a new Prophet of the Lord.

Millions of people have seen God. They weren't all hallucinating.

 

[Shadylookin]

Originally posted by puglover


Yeah. But there is evidence he existed.

As for the "primitives seeing with own two eyes" thing, I meant that the primitives SAW God, they SAW his miracles, and they SAW what God could do. They worshipped God. They told their children to. That was how religion was born.

what about all the so called polythestic heathens, with that anology they saw multiple gods and then decided to worship them. Now clearly 2 of them can't both be right. Not that i disagree with you, but you'll have to do better than that in a scientific argument.

I guess you would say i believe in evolution(god could have had a process for doing things) there isn't a hundred percent proof in it, and i imagine some of the process that we see it now is wrong(some different ancestors and the like). but as the evolution process i belive in it as i don't see a more convincing argument.

But does it really matter. Whether we were made 6000 years ago or over a period of 10 billion years, were here now despite the past and best have some fun since time has proven that every spieces will die out eventually.

 

[Wyrmshadow]

Originally posted by puglover


No. There isn't.

Some animals are extinct. So? What does that prove?

And how are you so sure that birds came after lizards?

This is what I was stating before when I was talking about the stubborness. You won't listen to anything you dont already believe in. Afterall, you are from the state who's educational board has become the laughing stock of the rest of the country for its decision on evolution. And if I remember correctly, all the board members who voted for that restriction were voted out the next year.

 

[Shadylookin]

If I "see with my own two eyes" a neon pink elephant scrounging in a dumpster in back of McDonalds for food with Ronald Reagan and Elvis Presley sitting on its back, does that mean I've been having a little too much of something or other? No, it means I'm having a "religious/spiritual/mystical experience". From now on I'm going to worship that pink elephant, Praise be unto Him.

bah everyone knows God looks like a hipo, the pink elephant is satan ronald and elvis are his minions. and didn't you read that one thread, mcdonalds is a work of satan, and in the mcdonalds kitchen is the center of hell(that's why it's so damn hot there)

 

[Pontiuth Pilate]

satan... ronald [reagan] and elvis are his minions

that wouldn't surprise me.

And how are you so sure that birds came after lizards?

If you cut a cross-section of a typical layer of earth, bird fossils would start at a shallower depth than lizard fossils.

That's not an absolute rule, but it's observed generally enough, and in widely different places on earth, to make it a viable hypothesis that lizards predate birds.

See? Empiricism. Nobody asked God - and guess what - nobody needed to, to find out the truth.

 

[Perfection]

Originally posted by puglover
Millions of people have seen God. They weren't all hallucinating.

True, some were frauds!

Any, anyways, they didn't neccesarily see god, they just said they did, or someone siad that they did, or a book written hundreds of years after siad they did!

 

[Wyrmshadow]

Originally posted by puglover


Millions of people have seen God. They weren't all hallucinating.

You absolutely sure it wasn't Martians instead of god?

 

[Gothmog]

Decent with modification is a great scientific theory, one of the best man has been able to come up with. It does not need belief to hold it up.

Nothing to see here, move along please.

 

[CurtSibling]

Originally posted by onejayhawk
This topic needs a rest. Try again next year. Some new voices will be around by then.

J

This topic always has one outcome.

A huge poll win for Evolution, and a mostly shaky defeat for the religionists.

 

[CurtSibling]

Originally posted by puglover


Millions of people have seen God. They weren't all hallucinating.

Care to prove that vastly sweeping statement?

Or will I just say millions of people have evovled from monkeys?

 

[greenmtnsun]

The rules are completely out of wack. Evolution has EVERYTHING to do with Religion. This is why Christians care to ensure their children are taught the truth in this debate. Evolution is 10000000% a religious topic, in every form, fashion and way.

Grace and peace,

Keith

 

[greenmtnsun]

"A huge poll win for Evolution, and a mostly shaky defeat for the religionists."

Truth does not require that you believe in it to still be true.

We aren't defeated when people decide against God. God's providence is sweet comfort to my soul, I am always encouraged that people are considering the overwhelming proof of creation! He's in control, and one day, you'll find out too!

In Christ,

Keith