Factory Resourced feel weak

[Taefin]

My overall experience is the legacies feel quite natural to pursue, doing things that are already rewarding, with the glaring exception of factories and factory resources.

On top of factories requiring so much production to get online, and navigating the confusing “do I need a port, or a rail station, or both, or a port in a mainland city, or…?” the resources themselves seem so much weaker than the city/bonus resources (+6 production for whales and tobacco is just so good).

To me it seems that the factory resource bonuses would be more fitting if they were empire-wide, since they fall so flat applying only to one city. Why would I want to boost a single city’s growth rate, near the end of the game, when the effect of 2 extra specialists is the same as slotting immediately useful resources (I feel the same about all the others).

This one area feels like you need to sacrifice the productivity of your cities to pursue the economic victory. I think factories need to be strong in their own right, and that factory resources should be on par with attribute repeatables (e.g., 3% boost to a resource globally per copy).

 

[Siptah]

My overall experience is the legacies feel quite natural to pursue, doing things that are already rewarding, with the glaring exception of factories and factory resources.

On top of factories requiring so much production to get online, and navigating the confusing “do I need a port, or a rail station, or both, or a port in a mainland city, or…?” the resources themselves seem so much weaker than the city/bonus resources (+6 production for whales and tobacco is just so good).

To me it seems that the factory resource bonuses would be more fitting if they were empire-wide, since they fall so flat applying only to one city. Why would I want to boost a single city’s growth rate, near the end of the game, when the effect of 2 extra specialists is the same as slotting immediately useful resources (I feel the same about all the others).

This one area feels like you need to sacrifice the productivity of your cities to pursue the economic victory. I think factories need to be strong in their own right, and that factory resources should be on par with attribute repeatables (e.g., 3% boost to a resource globally per copy).

They do apply empire-wide as far as I know. Or only some? I'm sure of cotton, at least, and I assumed for the others.

 

[Taefin]

They do apply empire-wide as far as I know. Or only some? I'm sure of cotton, at least, and I assumed for the others.

That would be great, the happiness and science ones only updated my yields in the city slotted, but I guess this could be a UI glitch.

 

[Melkus]

only updated my yields in the city slotted

Every factory resource applies empire-wide (at least Ed Beach said so, and the bonuses don't make much sense otherwise), so this would be grounds for a bug report. The problem is indeed that the UI does not reflect that well at all (they should be listed in the upper area on the resource page).

 

[Elhoim]

Yeah, I thought they were empire wide, but the UI doesn't really update and you don't know if they have an effect or not.

 

[TheMarshmallowBear]

That would be great, the happiness and science ones only updated my yields in the city slotted, but I guess this could be a UI glitch.

Check the turn after, I notice a lotof my yields don't update immediately.

 

[Cymsdale]

The game didn’t do a good job telling me they were empire wide. The tutorial around them even mentioned something about “specializing your cities”.

 

[queenpea]

Check the turn after, I notice a lotof my yields don't update immediately.

I really wish the change of yields was displayed better in general. This goes back to my confusion about overbuilding, adjacencies, and town specialization, as well. Shouldn’t there be some kind of before/after visible to the player when they are making choices like these?

 

[Deggial]

I really wish the change of yields was displayed better in general. This goes back to my confusion about overbuilding and agencies as well. Shouldn’t there be some kind of before/after visible to the player when they are making choices like these?

Another case of a poor UI.
Yes, the feed-back (actually any feed-back!) should definitely be real-time and not just the next turn.

 

[Seek]

Check the turn after, I notice a lotof my yields don't update immediately.

I really wish the change of yields was displayed better in general. This goes back to my confusion about overbuilding, adjacencies, and town specialization, as well. Shouldn’t there be some kind of before/after visible to the player when they are making choices like these?

Another case of a poor UI.
Yes, the feed-back (actually any feed-back!) should definitely be real-time and not just the next turn.

If you click on a city banner and then go back to the main map it will update. Agree, it should still be real time!

 

[peter79]

Yeah, I thought they were empire wide, but the UI doesn't really update and you don't know if they have an effect or not.

There is absolutely no indication in the UI that the factory resources have any impact outside what it says when you mouse over the resource itself. Yet again one of the many glaring failures of the UI.

 

[Taefin]

Ah thanks everyone!

Maybe I’ll just double down on my original concern. The fact that I couldn’t tell they were global in the following turns is a sign to me that factory resources are too weak. Or maybe I just need to use trade and resource slot buildings to get 10 of each slotted.

 

[Evolena]

Every factory resource applies empire-wide (at least Ed Beach said so, and the bonuses don't make much sense otherwise), so this would be grounds for a bug report. The problem is indeed that the UI does not reflect that well at all (they should be listed in the upper area on the resource page).

I was in doubt for the Production to Buildings and Wonders from the Coffee (I had 8 in 3 Factory Towns, and not seeing a lot of effect), so... I've tested.
I've emptied all my Factories of their Coffee, so no bonus anymore.
In my City with the worst production, let's buy a Rail Sation and a Factory for the test, and let's build a Wonder, which will take 12 turns to complete.
Let's put 3 Coffees in the Factory of another Town. Still 12 turns.
Let's remove them from that Town, and put them in the City building the Wonder. Bam, down to 11 turns.
Result: the bonus of Coffee ony applies to the Factory's Settlement.

However, the Growth Rate from Fish does apply everywhere, and the +3% Culture too (+662 -> +722 Culture / turn for 3 Kaolin slotted in a Town with 3.2 Culture yields).

Also, I don't get any bonus production towards Rail Station from my 9 Coals, and these 9x +100% Empire-wide bonus should be noticeable, even with disminishing return. Only one should be twice as fast. But the Stock Exchange has the same Production cost as the Rail Station, and in that low-Production City, both take 9 turns.

 

[stealth_nsk]

I was in doubt for the Production to Buildings and Wonders from the Coffee (I had 8 in 3 Factory Towns, and not seeing a lot of effect), so... I've tested.
I've emptied all my Factories of their Coffee, so no bonus anymore.
In my City with the worst production, let's buy a Rail Sation and a Factory for the test, and let's build a Wonder, which will take 12 turns to complete.
Let's put 3 Coffees in the Factory of another Town. Still 12 turns.
Let's remove them from that Town, and put them in the City building the Wonder. Bam, down to 11 turns.
Result: the bonus of Coffee ony applies to the Factory's Settlement.

However, the Growth Rate from Fish does apply everywhere, and the +3% Culture too (+662 -> +722 Culture / turn for 3 Kaolin slotted in a Town with 3.2 Culture yields).

Also, I don't get any bonus production towards Rail Station from my 9 Coals, and these 9x +100% Empire-wide bonus should be noticeable, even with disminishing return. Only one should be twice as fast. But the Stock Exchange has the same Production cost as the Rail Station, and in that low-Production City, both take 9 turns.

Thanks! I think it's a bug that some of the resources aren't applied empire-wide (and if not, I expect it to be stated clearly in the description of each resource.

 

[Evolena]

As it is now, you need your City with Railroad + Factory to have more than 120 Production for a Coffee to be as efficient as a Tobacco (+6 Production as you already have the Rail Station), and as I think there are disminishing returns on these "+% Production towards" that you don't get on a flat +6, I don't even see a case where a Coffee is worth it.

 

[stealth_nsk]

As it is now, you need your City with Railroad + Factory to have more than 120 Production for a Coffee to be as efficient as a Tobacco (+6 Production as you already have the Rail Station), and as I think there are disminishing returns on these "+% Production towards" that you don't get on a flat +6, I don't even see a case where a Coffee is worth it.

The case is obviously when you don't have enough Tobacco.

But yes, I think it's a bug.

 

[Evolena]

But even a +4 Production bonus Resource might be more efficient.
I don't see anything related on the support website, so I know what I'll be doing tomorrow.

 

[CoconutTank]

Thanks for doing the science Evolena! +

 

[Taefin]

I’m guessing we are seeing a lot of bugs. Without the bonus to building speed being global, build speed slows to a snails pace in modern, where 6 turns for +30 gold becomes not worth it.

I got my first game with a ridiculous growth speed bonus, using 16 fish. In one way, this felt like I had reached the industrial age, with cities that would take an entire empire feeding them to grow a pop every 10 turns, now cranking out pops across the empire every 2-3 turns. I wish build speed did the same, where now established cities could build everything and newer cities could come on line using production.

I still think the formula is a mistake (perhaps balanced around a miscommunication).

The language of +5% toward X, is unambiguous in meaning that a yield would be multiplied by 1.05 anytime it was used for X. This could be calculated as a reduction in cost, but it would need to be done correctly.

Cost reduction means that the last few fish result in +25%, +33% and then +50% toward growth, going from a bonus of 80 to 85 to 90 to 95 (before ostensibly reducing costs to 0%?). It seems then that the food for growth curve was drawn to balance this absurdity, and the result is that if you don’t abuse growth bonuses, growth in way too slow, even using every source of food available.

I’d rather see all these 5% cost reductions change to a true 10% yield bonus toward X.

Could also be done by apply cost reductions geometrically cost*0.95^N, where N=20 copies would be a reduction in cost of 64%, and every copy has the same impact as the one before it.

But after playing the economic victory, I am happy to see that when implemented anywhere near correctly, they will really make industrialization, trade, factories essential for any strategy except culture, and something as impactful as opening up new continents in terms of the age feeling fundamentally changed from the era before.

 

[Elhoim]

Yeah, the fish one is really OP, and all the production ones are either too weak or just not applying at all. The rest seem to work fine (science, culture and extra happiness).