Faith for Calabim?

[Rudenut]

Currently playing Calabim...Decius and I are trying to match a faith that is both lore and has decent synergy. The one that I think works for mechanics is AV because of sacrifice the weak. Unhealth is of little issue here. Also, FoL works because it gets rid of the unhealth.

Neither of these sit well with me Lore wise. I just don't see decadent Vamp lords who are very comfy with their lifestyle working to destroy all of it. Also, hugging trees probably would tatter their silks.

Order, I see it working a bit for lore in the same way any leadership uses a popular idea and fear of retribution by a wrathful god to control the masses while secretly, or even not so secretly living off them like parasites. The red velvet robes help alot with that image. ;D Has a somewhat familiar tune. However, seeing as the gods are actually real in this world...I doubt Junil would allow it.

Honor....lol, the sun. All I can do not to choose this one. Love me some Chalid.

Esus, mechanic synergy not there. Unless I'm missing something.

OO.....don't care for it. Don't like zombies all that much.

 

[BvBPL]

Personally, I see lore as “what came before” and not a roadmap that confines one’s current actions. That’s why I don’t have a problem roleplaying as the leader of an RoK-following Clan. The way I see it, Jonas bringing the diverse tribes of the clan under his leadership is a unique event, and one that precedes further unique events, like the orcs getting some discipline through the RoK’s stonewardens. That’s just me though.

I would say Cult of Esus. The synergy is there in spades. Just negotiate open borders with another civ, move your forces into place around their juicy core cities, and declare war. Small stacks of highly promoted vampires that start right next to the enemy’s city make mincemeat of defenders.

The RoK is another option. Disciplined trading fits in well w/ the vampires’ goals of holding their lunch close w/ an iron fist. Plenty powerful too, especially for the Calabim who receive their vampires through means other than iron working (and thus have a fair interest in the mines).

 

[A Moon]

Lore-wise, Alexis goes with Ashen Veil and perhaps the Council of Esus,(not sure about either though) and Flauros goes with the Council and Fellowship of Leaves (Survival of the fittest, according to MC). I suppose Decius leading the Calabim would be Council of Esus too.

No idea about gameplay synergy.

 

[Rudenut]

I see your point about council of esus....and with Decius I suppose that is correct. I am still stuck playing builders with them. Decius does not a builder make....gotta get out of that habit. Used to Flauros and FoL.

I should clarify, as well, that by lore I mean the whole Vampire lord/food dynamic...not necessarily the erebus lore.

 

[Torugu]

Following the Ashen Veil does not mean your aiming to destroy the world, it's more a "The world? Screw the world I got POWER." kind of thing. It works quite well with the Calabim.

The only other alternative (lore-wise) is the CoE, in fact that's their religion in the official scenarios.


I don't think FoL would work so well, it's survival of the fittest, but it's the "all beings are equal" brand of survivalism. Doesn't go so well with the strong hierarchical structure of the Calabim.

Personally, I see lore as “what came before” and not a roadmap that confines one’s current actions. That’s why I don’t have a problem roleplaying as the leader of an RoK-following Clan. The way I see it, Jonas bringing the diverse tribes of the clan under his leadership is a unique event, and one that precedes further unique events, like the orcs getting some discipline through the RoK’s stonewardens. That’s just me though.

The thing is, Jonas has just gone through a "Saulus -> Paulus" experience of some sorts, he wouldn't be very likely to turn his back on Bhall now. You can't just accept the FFH lore as the past and pretend that it has no effects on the future you're about to create.
That being said, it's up to you how much of the lore you are going to use for your games. As long as you have fun anything goes.

 

[BvBPL]

I agree but, there isn’t a Bhallanse religion so none of the religions are legitimate choices for Jonas. Since there isn’t an organized Bhallanse church, Jonas might as well use his spiritualism to guide his people using the religion that best serves their purposes, especially since Bhall’s directive to Jonas was to lead the orc people to greatness.

 

[Torugu]

Yes, there is a "Bhallase" religion. Bhall is one of the chief deities of the Ashen Veil.

 

[Valkrionn]

Bhall, Ceridwen, and Agares are all worshipped by Ashen Veil.

 

[Viatos]

FoL is about the natural order, nature red in tooth and claw, and most of all survival of the fittest. Makes sense for inhuman predators who see themselves as the most advanced and deserving form of life on Erebus. All beings are equal, but vampires are those who evolve by choice.

Nobles release pretty virgin girls with flowers in their hair into the forests of their estate, then hunt them down on foot and barehanded for the gory harvest. Kithra, the Hemah-designed elvish paragon, becomes a twisted mockery of his people - an immortal who believes nature exists to serve him, who fertilizes the soil of the ancient forests with a never-ending river of blood. Laughing vampire lords accompanied by a horde of snarling, Ghouled tigers and curious, carnivorous fawns luring mortals to their doom with sweet promises of love and wine and dancing, promises they no longer understand the desire to keep...

And come on, dat Health.

I should clarify, as well, that by lore I mean the whole Vampire lord/food dynamic...not necessarily the erebus lore.

If you're not using Erebus lore, you can doubtless find models of vampires that fit every religion, playstyle, and individual civic. There's a lot of literature. I hate vampires with the terrible burning passion of a thousand fiery suns (it drives me crazy that no other civ can really even TRY for Omnipotence), but they come up in a lot of my interests.

Take the new World of Darkness. You have vampire clans - Gangrel (FoL), Ventrue (Order), Mekhet (Esus), Daeva (Empyrean or RoK - they're like undead Balseraphs, they like creature comforts / wealth and art), and Nosferatu (Ashen Veil) - and that's just clan stereotypes, not even getting into choice of Covenant or Bloodline.

 

[vivictius]

Why do you think they are the only ones that can get Omnipotence?

 

[KamikazeFTW]

Why do you think they are the only ones that can get Omnipotence?

you need a HUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUGEEEEEE amount of experience to level up an archmage to omni. Without having the advantage of sitting in big cities gobbling people up for exp., it's practically impossible. Even as amurites i've only had a master of necromancy and a master of elements.

(can give the calabim a small but incredibly potent arcane stack too)

(got Gaelan as a random event and got him all the way to master of necro, master of elements, and master of divination before I stopped the game because of the lag and crashes)

 

[Viatos]

you need a HUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUGEEEEEE amount of experience to level up an archmage to omni. Without having the advantage of sitting in big cities gobbling people up for exp., it's practically impossible. Even as amurites i've only had a master of necromancy and a master of elements.

(can give the calabim a small but incredibly potent arcane stack too)

(got Gaelan as a random event and got him all the way to master of necro, master of elements, and master of divination before I stopped the game because of the lag and crashes)

This. The Amurites under Naxus or the Grigori can pick up a couple masteries by endgame if you push for it. But no one can touch the Calabim at gathering up XP, and Omnipotence is a stretch even for them. The Calabim, unfortunately, remain far and away the best mages and the best elitists in general at anything they put their minds to.

The most powerful mages as total units are D'teshi, capstoned by the single most powerful Arcane Unit in the game. Amurites are the most powerful arcane CIVILIZATION, where not even Govannon is exceptional (in fact, he has three less promotions then a same-age Grigori Archmage), but even the cannon fodder rates as "pretty good". Scion Necromancers, with their unique Corpus and post-victory spells, can do a ton of harm.

But if you want mastery of MAGIC, rather then just Erebus, the Calabim have no substitute.

 

[Valkrionn]

Then you'll be glad to know that omniscience is going away.

 

[Viatos]

Then you'll be glad to know that omniscience is going away.

Not so much.

 

[Valkrionn]

Eh; It just doesn't work with our design for spell schools.

 

[JEiK66]

If I remember correctly in the Civilopedia for FoL it states that FoL is one of the religions of the Calabim, because vampires like hunting.

 

[A Moon]

Following the Ashen Veil does not mean your aiming to destroy the world, it's more a "The world? Screw the world I got POWER." kind of thing. It works quite well with the Calabim.

For Alexis. Flauros wouldn't like the "bargaining with demons" part.

I don't the mean the demons, that is. He just wouldn't be thrilled about the bargaining.

 

[KamikazeFTW]

This. The Amurites under Naxus or the Grigori can pick up a couple masteries by endgame if you push for it. But no one can touch the Calabim at gathering up XP, and Omnipotence is a stretch even for them. The Calabim, unfortunately, remain far and away the best mages and the best elitists in general at anything they put their minds to.

The most powerful mages as total units are D'teshi, capstoned by the single most powerful Arcane Unit in the game. Amurites are the most powerful arcane CIVILIZATION, where not even Govannon is exceptional (in fact, he has three less promotions then a same-age Grigori Archmage), but even the cannon fodder rates as "pretty good". Scion Necromancers, with their unique Corpus and post-victory spells, can do a ton of harm.

But if you want mastery of MAGIC, rather then just Erebus, the Calabim have no substitute.

heh I can't believe I forgot about the D'tesh.......
yeah Naxus is my all-time favorite Amurite leader, has awesome synergy with the Amurites, and I also usually get the Arcane trait with him (I can't wait to see the real "promotions" for Naxus' Necromancer trait in 1.4)

 

[Krieger66]

Eh; It just doesn't work with our design for spell schools.

I actually have a few requests for the calabim in 1.4...

• Zaria's unique vamp units-I never understand why the Mekara got access to some of the most ba vamp units, while the calabim pretty much got shafted. I understand most calabim governors' favor brute force but you should at least be able to hire them as the calabim's unique mercenaries. The blood matrons have no reason to not be in use by the calabim because the better conditions would satisfy the people and end up making more food for the vamp governors(they could also be calabim governor's "special" nurses).
• vampire's gain access to level's of channeling based on level-I think it would be a pretty cool thing to let turned vampires gain access to some body/mind spells. For instance haste at level 7, regeneration-level 13-17, charm at level 9-11, and dominate at level 25-30.
• Unique Recon Units:
  1. Stalker-a hunter replacement; str 3 move 3
     can cast "prey" ability: "gives 30% to turn defeated living unit into a bloodthrall, gets a +5% combat str if it kills an enemy living unit; 100% to join savages/be removed, removed by combat, targets weakest living unit, can enter rival territory"
  2. Ripper-ranger unit replacement; str 6 move 3
     can cast prey(see above), haste, gains promo killing frenzy after killing an enemy living unit while under prey effect(gives multiple attacks per turn), heals 10% after combat
  3. Predator-beastmaster replacment; str 10 move 3
     as ripper except, can also use regeneration, slow, and dominate abilities; can "feed" on cities with open borders, but there is a 75% chance of war being declared as a result.

Just a few rough ideas.

 

[Valkrionn]

On the first: It is the influence of the Ordine Medicos (Grigori, Iram Damarr) that inspires the creation of the Matrons, IIRC, and thus they have no role in the Calabim civ.

On the others... Possible. The second is unlikely.