Fall Further is Going to Hell

[xienwolf]

We could indtroduce a pair of rituals for this:

Open the Gates:
Requires Evil Alignment and Way of the Wicked
Allows Hell Terrain to spread to ALL territories, regardless of current AC and owner alignment

Balance of Heaven:
Requires Good Alignment and Way of the Wise, and that Open the Gates is currently active
Cancels Open the Gates and retores normal Hell Spread Rules (will result in Hell Terrain neither spreading NOR receding in Good Territory as presently coded, nor in other territories for which the AC is too low).




And the individual tracking of the AC was added a while ago and placed in the Mouseover of the End Turn button for simple player amusement, and possibly to take the place of whatever currently determines the "You are destroying the world!" attitude modifier.

 

[zup]

Should mass sanctify and hallowing give 'you are protecting the world' modifier? Bonus with goodies, perhaps something minor with neutrals and penalty with AV? Sheaim could get a further penalty as regardless of their state religion, they are pursuing the armageddon? Perhaps tie the sanctify bonus to where you sanctify. Khazad don't really care for the Calabim, but if you save the dwarves, they might consider you more valuable alive than dead.

 

[dyvim]

We could indtroduce a pair of rituals for this:
Open the Gates:
Requires Evil Alignment and Way of the Wicked
Allows Hell Terrain to spread to ALL territories, regardless of current AC and owner alignment
Balance of Heaven:
Requires Good Alignment and Way of the Wise, and that Open the Gates is currently active
Cancels Open the Gates and restores normal Hell Spread Rules (will result in Hell Terrain neither spreading NOR receding in Good Territory as presently coded, nor in other territories for which the AC is too low).

Is there a chance the IA will build one of these rituals at the moment?
I think it will need some coding to give it an interest in building these rituals.
BTW, I thought rituals were unique... it means only one good civ can be protected from Hell Terrain.

An other possibility can be to allow the hell terrain spread everywhere and to give all civs (not only good but also neutral and evil) a way to be protected (by a ritual that can be constructed multiple times or by a national wonder).
Perhaps should it be tied to your religion.
IIRC the white hand is protected from hell by snow spread, Fol can be protected by ancient forests, Order by its temples,...

I think these rituals or national wonders shouldn't protect you entirely but only lower the spread (significantly but only lower)

And the individual tracking of the AC was added a while ago and placed in the Mouseover of the End Turn button for simple player amusement, and possibly to take the place of whatever currently determines the "You are destroying the world!" attitude modifier.

Thanks for the answer

 

[1234567890]

I think this option should be available to Evil leaders only. I mean, if the highest contributer is a Good/Neutral leader, he shouldn't win. Only Evil leaders wish to spread Hell terrain through Erebus. Not even all of them, but only the Sheaim/Infernals. Don't you think it's logical?

Also, it would be cool to add a victory condition in order to balance this one, something like 'Ascend to Heaven' and it would reward Basium (and his team of course) with victory if more than X% of the population are Angels.

 

[WarKirby]

Is there a chance the IA will build one of these rituals at the moment?

Actually, I'd hazard a guess that it's more likely they will ruin their economy attempting to build them as soon as they become available. AI has a track record of doing things like that. look at Samhain, Purge the Unfaithful, Curse the Land, etc.

I'd say, move these rituals to Malevolent Designs and Righteoousness, respectively.

Also give them a big hammer cost, like 2000
And double production speed with entropy/law mana appropriately.

 

[1234567890]

Open the Gates:
Requires Evil Alignment and Way of the Wicked
Allows Hell Terrain to spread to ALL territories, regardless of current AC and owner alignment

Maybe a minor change: the Elohim Worldspell should be the only exception to this ritual.

 

[dyvim]

Actually, I'd hazard a guess that it's more likely they will ruin their economy attempting to build them as soon as they become available. AI has a track record of doing things like that. look at Samhain, Purge the Unfaithful, Curse the Land, etc.

I'd say, move these rituals to Malevolent Designs and Righteoousness, respectively.

Needs some experimentations so ^^

Also give them a big hammer cost, like 2000
And double production speed with entropy/law mana appropriately.

Is 2000 a so great cost in FF or FfH2 ?
Why law and not life?

 

[Vehem]

Why law and not life?

Law and Entropy are opposed in the same way that Life and Death are. Agares rules over Entropy and he's the one pushing to destroy Creation.

The "Life vs Death" struggle is kinda dull given that Arawn (Death sphere) doesn't really care about it that much.

 

[dyvim]

Thanks Vehem (even if I knew almost all of that)...

In fact I was refering to the spell that removes hell terrain (Sanctify?) that is a Life spell IIRC... (perhaps has it been changed by FF)

 

[Vehem]

Thanks Vehem (even if I knew almost all of that)...

In fact I was refering to the spell that removes hell terrain (Sanctify?) that is a Life spell IIRC... (perhaps has it been changed by FF)

It hasn't though there's definitely a case for it being changed. The only problem is that there's nothing that suits Life I better...

 

[Iceciro]

And that nothing really suits law better than Loyalty - it's a low power spell, with some really useful implementations sometimes.

 

[Algeroth]

Law and Entropy are opposed in the same way that Life and Death are. Agares rules over Entropy and he's the one pushing to destroy Creation.

I don't want to MC here, but IIRD the opposite of entropy is creation. And law is opposed to chaos.

 

[Deon]

I agree ()

 

[WarKirby]

Law/Chaos
Body/Mind
Life/Death
Creation/Entropy
Sun/Shadow
Fire/Water
Air/Earth


ok, some of the mana types aren't in neatly organised pairs
spirit
dimensional
nature
force
ice
metamagic

 

[PPQ_Purple]

Ice/Nature, becouse of the whole FFH1 lore of the age of ice and the Ilians. Becouse Ice practicly can represent the extreme of an ice age crushing all nature.

 

[dyvim]

following that, they are...

spirit/body
dimensional/force
nature/ice
mind/enchantment

only metamagic has no opposite

 

[Vehem]

I don't want to MC here, but IIRD the opposite of entropy is creation. And law is opposed to chaos.

Very true - forgot all about Camulos. Was just thinking Junil vs Agares (Order vs Veil, Law vs Entropy) - but obviously it's not quite that simple.

====

In anycase - for the moment I quite like the way the victory condition requires that Hell-bent evil players need to actively attack and destroy good players. It's definitely a tough one to complete - which reminds me that I do need to sort out a trophy for it actually...

 

[WarKirby]

I think the general idea, is that law is the most militant "good" sphere. Life is good also, but it's of a more peaceful nature.

But that said, I still do think Righteousness and Malevolent Designs are better techs. These rituals are big stuff, and I think "Way of..." techs are too early.

 

[dyvim]

What for my point that using rituals will only allow one good civ (and no neutral civ) to be protected against hell terrain?

I still think that both Esus, Killmorph or Leaves worshippers should have a way to be (at least a bit) protected too...

 

[Vehem]

What for my point that using rituals will only allow one good civ (and no neutral civ) to be protected against hell terrain?

I still think that both Esus, Killmorph or Leaves worshippers should have a way to be (at least a bit) protected too...

I think what Xienwolf was suggesting is something effects the whole world (all good become vulnerable, all good are protected). It's purely theoretical at the moment however and not really something I'm planning on doing in the near future.