Fall Further - The Original Thread

[Vehem]

Dreiche2's script is very nice, it works and it is easy to implement, but it's not as perfect as Cephalo's in some respects. It just redistributes the original calculated starting locations among the FfH civs according to FfH flavor, while Cephalo's script is actually searching for brand new starting locations fitting exactly a given civs preferences. (At least that's my impression when looking over the code.)

Furthermore, while Dreiches Script only uses the amount of a certain terrain type for finding a good spot for a civilization, Cephalo's considers a lot more parameters. An example of the differences in case of the Ljosalfar:

Dreiche2:
infoLjosalfar.features[IT("FEATURE_FOREST")] = 1

Cephalo:
idealMoisture = 0.75
idealAltitude = 0.23
altitudeWeight = 2.0
distanceWeight = 0.25
needCoastalStart = False
allowForestStart = True

Would be nice to have something like the modular script, created by Dreiche2, combined with Cephalo's fine tuned starting plot finding algorithm.

Aye - though most maps have no concept of Moisture or Altitude - that's a regional setting that Cephalo implemented and is how each region has a different prevalent terrain.

I thought I should give it a try and modified Dreiche2's mapmod for Fall Further and linked it to the PerfectWorld.py script. Seems to work nicely.

If possible the two lizard tribes will start in the jungle, the Chislev will favour the plains now and the Archos will favour areas with food boni nearby.

Thanks for posting this - can I link to it from the main page?

EDIT: It might pay to add a 0.25 - 0.5 weighting to the Lizards for Grassland and Trees as well. Because of the low weighting of Jungle for generating normal start locations, when they are redistributed there aren't many that should have a lot of jungle in to choose from. Grassland/Forest will change fairly quickly and so are basically the "second choice" for terrain.

 

[Jean Elcard]

Doublepost, sorry.

 

[Jean Elcard]

Aye - though most maps have no concept of Moisture or Altitude - that's a regional setting that Cephalo implemented and is how each region has a different prevalent terrain.

Thanks for the hint, I didn't think of this problem.

Thanks for posting this - can I link to it from the main page?

EDIT: It might pay to add a 0.25 - 0.5 weighting to the Lizards for Grassland and Trees as well. Because of the low weighting of Jungle for generating normal start locations, when they are redistributed there aren't many that should have a lot of jungle in to choose from. Grassland/Forest will change fairly quickly and so are basically the "second choice" for terrain.

No problem at all. Feel free to do so. I'm still fine tuning the script after understanding how it does what it does, now. I've already added the forest/grass weight you suggested and will upload the update later today. I have some ideas for improving the script, but I'm not sure how to implent it exactly at the moment. Python isn't my first language after all.

 

[Vehem]

No problem at all. Feel free to do so. I'm still fine tuning the script after understanding how it does what it does, now. I've already added the forest/grass weight you suggested and will upload the update later today. I have some ideas for improving the script, but I'm not sure how to implent it exactly at the moment. Python isn't my first language after all.

Thanks - if you upload it to the Downloads DB rather than as an attachment, I can just point a link at the download page and then you can update it as often as you like - the link will always be valid

 

[Alzara]

Just wondering, what exactly is a trail?

Al

 

[GhostQ]

Trails are roads for Lizardmen civilizations. They add gold to the tiles they are in after you discover a certain mid-early game tech (Tracking I believe). They cannot be used by other civs; practically negating part of the Raiders trait. The only real downside (if you're playing a Lizardmen civ) would be that you don't get +1 trail movement after you discover Engineering.

 

[Wyrmhero]

Trails are roads for Lizardmen civilizations. They add gold to the tiles they are in after you discover a certain mid-early game tech (Tracking I believe). They cannot be used by other civs; practically negating part of the Raiders trait. The only real downside (if you're playing a Lizardmen civ) would be that you don't get +1 trail movement after you discover Engineering.

However, 'Swamp-Dwelling', a tech that lizard civs start with, gives you the bonus instead. I'm not entirely sure if that actually makes the bonus equal, or whether that's a work around to give a trail 2 movement...

 

[Demus]

trails only add commerce on "swamp" terrain, but do not require a certain tech to do so. The Mazatl and cualli are the only civs i pick exploration as a first tech with

 

[Vehem]

However, 'Swamp-Dwelling', a tech that lizard civs start with, gives you the bonus instead. I'm not entirely sure if that actually makes the bonus equal, or whether that's a work around to give a trail 2 movement...

Mostly a workaround to give it 2 movement to Lizards and no-one else - but they also get double movement in their own terrain types due to having the "Lizardman" promotion, so they can move pretty quickly anyway.

That whole mechanic is mostly to make sure Jungle-lands remain feeling wild. It also slows down horseback-raiders (Tasunke) nicely as a side effect.

 

[Jean Elcard]

Only a small update, but I'm leaving for the weekend and don't want to wait any longer with uploading the current version of Dreiche2's modified mapscript mod:

Download: Link

Added some forest and grass land weight for the lizards and love for forest for our dark tree hugging friends the Svartalfar.

I'm still working on improving the script. And the next step should be a rather big one. Hopefully it's going to work. At the moment it is first count first serve. The last nation in the list has to take the last possible starting position, if they like it or not. Usually that's a rather bad fitting one. I'm trying to change this. Every nation should be able to choose from the whole pool of possible starting locations, not only the first one in the list.

Basically that's a classical linear weighted assignment problem. Look it up, if you like mathematics. Almost impossible to solve with brute force, even for small numbers (it's a n! problem), but there are some nice algorithms doing it in tolerable time frames (n³ for example).

 

[Y T]

Hiyas!
'been a lurker for quite some time now, after I discovered the excellent ffh-mod over a year ago.
Never had any big problems, apart from known bugs (Dualcore & enough RAM, also XP-OS keeps me on the safe side); this time though, in my last game, I encounter an WoC, being able to scroll around the map & access all screens, including load&save.

Wanna also say, I do like the extra civs & all seems very nicely done, BUT the lizzies r way to overpowered. Sure, lots has to do with an ideal starting position, but u've got a lizzy-civ in the game, the other civs get there butts kicked! (The fact that the AI still needs to b tuned is a large factor, I reckon)
This save has the Cuallis as leading civ & in my last game the Mazatl were in the lead. In that particular last game, playing the Svaltalfar, I also found out that I could get the +1 from swamps with trails on them. After building a road on top of those lands, i downgraded them by only receiving the little food. Dunno if its intended to receive the , but surely doesnt feel right!

The save is monarch-lvl with the creation-ff mapscript on epic speed, ending turn should result in the infinite loop.

 

[Opuhara]

Hi

is it intended to have the war machine as special unit (second one) when playing Chisley tribe ?

congratulation for your work

 

[BeefontheBone]

Similarly to Y T (but in reverse), you can get Ancient Forest and Swamp co-existing on the same wetlands tile if you conquer FoL civs as the Matzatl - that's like 6 food, a hammer and a few commerce, which is a little much Might be best to have the same chunk of code which causes swamps to spread to either ignore tiles with ancient forest or turn them to swamp and replace the ancient forest improvement. Or even create an Ancient Swamp if you wanted to go overboard with it

 

[Slvynn]

Kadhi Psion Concept Art:


Replaces hero if Kadh go Mammon path - Strong Plannar gate summon, max 1 per time , but if 1 dying new one w/o promotions will spawn through capital plannar gate. Tough unit with mind 3, sorcery, chanelling 3

 

[Alzara]

Hey. Just thought I'd repost my question here incase someone can help. I would upload a saved game, but the max size you can attach for a saved game is 2meg. Both saved games (demonstrating working and broken saves) are just over 2 meg. Could I email them to you Vehem?

Thanks

Al

Here is a copy of the original thread I posted in the main forum:-


Hey guys, I seem to have a problem when loading a save game, or any save games beyond a certain point in my game.

This error reads:-

"Runtime Error!
Program:... er's Civilisation4\Beyond the Sword\Civ4BeyondSword.exe

The application has reqested the Runtime to terminate in an unusual way. Please contact the application support team for more information."

Im using the Fall Further modmod, so I hope it has nothing to do with this.

The defining point seems to be constructing the guild of hammers, but this has not happened before when using FfH 0.31e.

Any ideas what is causing this? I can provide save games if anyone wants (though they are big games which will take a while to load - bigger than huge maps).

Thanks guys

Al

 

[Vehem]

Hey. Just thought I'd repost my question here incase someone can help. I would upload a saved game, but the max size you can attach for a saved game is 2meg. Both saved games (demonstrating working and broken saves) are just over 2 meg. Could I email them to you Vehem?

Thanks

Al

Here is a copy of the original thread I posted in the main forum:-


Hey guys, I seem to have a problem when loading a save game, or any save games beyond a certain point in my game.

This error reads:-

"Runtime Error!
Program:... er's Civilisation4\Beyond the Sword\Civ4BeyondSword.exe

The application has reqested the Runtime to terminate in an unusual way. Please contact the application support team for more information."

Im using the Fall Further modmod, so I hope it has nothing to do with this.

The defining point seems to be constructing the guild of hammers, but this has not happened before when using FfH 0.31e.

Any ideas what is causing this? I can provide save games if anyone wants (though they are big games which will take a while to load - bigger than huge maps).

Thanks guys

Al

Same reply here as over there Post the save and I'll take a look...

EDIT: If you zip them, you should be able to post them even at the larger size. You can do this either with an archiving program (WinZip, WinRar, WinAce etc) or by right clicking the file and selecting "Send To > Compressed (zipped) folder"

As these are large games - I'll check this one first... Does the error message mention anything about "Memory Allocation Fault"? There is a known issue with all versions of Civ4 (modded or otherwise) that can cause problems with large games.

 

[Kasdar]

Are you taking requests for a possible Civ? I would really like to see a Civ filled with undead. Zombies, skelletons, mummies, and other such creatures.

 

[Psychic_Llamas]

so... whens the next civ comming out vehem?

 

[Slvynn]

i am not Vehem but i can say thats there are already 2 new units aviable - follower and Advisor for Kadh, mabe by NiksNaks. There still some texturing job should be done , and i have probs with GIMP on my computer, Vehem, do you want to texture 2 exsisting models?

 

[Vehem]

i am not Vehem but i can say thats there are already 2 new units aviable - follower and Advisor for Kadh, mabe by NiksNaks. There still some texturing job should be done , and i have probs with GIMP on my computer, Vehem, do you want to texture 2 exsisting models?

First I've heard of them actually - I know Niknaks said he would take a shot at them - but didn't realise they'd already been done.

Not sure if I'm the best one to texture a unit from scratch, but depending on how the UV maps are laid out, I might be able to manage something. Can one of you post the units so I can take a look?

If you're having trouble with Gimp - try PaintDotNet. It's not as fully-featured as Gimp or Photoshop, but it does handle DDS's well and is what I use for all my texture/button work.