Fall Further - The Original Thread

[GhostQ]

7 edits is pretty high I must admit. The explorable lairs sometimes spawn creatures, and Pit Beasts are among them; Gargoyles and Liches are also on the list among powerful ones. They all can hurt early game. But keep in mind those lairs can also spawn a gold resource, a mana resource and even great people. I'd say they are eventually fun, they can be a little bit imbalanced at times, for your own good or bad. The AI in your game had a bit of bad luck that's all, those powerful ones are not very common; I saw a Pit Beast spawn once out of 100+ lairs.

 

[Svantotvit]

Excellent modmod Vehem. Thank you! I love the Mazatl

 

[Vehem]

Alright... This is a bit strange.

Graveyards are doing nada for me.

FFH2, they work. Make duplicate of FFH2 called Fall Further, put mod files in... test graveyards in ANY game. Nuthin. Install patch A. See prior.

Or more accurately. Me and a friend try multi-player, and every time one of us pops a graveyard... OOS.

Sounds related to Woodelf's error. Being it references "spellRobGrave"


Quite irritating, as we cannot stand to play normal FFH2 since FF.... oh, 30? Its just that much better.

Haven't had a chance for my friend to test this too, but will ask him to once he gets back from work.

Got a PE:

File "CvSpellInterface", line 16, in cast
File "string", line 0, in ?
File "CvSpellInterface", line 2102, in spellRobGrave
RuntimeError: unidentifiable C++ exception

I got the same PE and got it to work by not using the patch.

Great mod, by the way.

Thanks - sorted. I'll either release the fix as a solo patch later today, or together with the Feature thing fix if I've worked it out by then.

Okay. Im not one to double post. But this is really utterly unrelated to graveyards not working...


O.o turn 21 I just had a strength 10 pit beast attack my capital. Thankfully it was severely hurt from KILLING two other civilizations before attacking me-and I was well enough fortified to luck out and kill it on defense. I doubt I had a very high chance of living either... but I did.

I don't know what to say other than... WHAT THE CRAP?!

Its just... just... just...

Edit: Save when I saw it approaching attached.

Edit2: Take a look, thy who don't want to load the save. Oddly, my warrior only got 4xp...

Edit3: Holy crap. Civilisations are falling like flies. The Bals just died... Worldbuildered to see to what? A treant is sitting on the ruins of their captial... O.o...

Edit4: And there goes the amurites... to ANOTHER pit beast... ... ... turn 37... save avalible on request.... This could be a very short conquest game at this rate... or more accurately survivor *shudders*

Edit5: No wars have been waged yet. And there goes ANOTHER civilsation... to a pit beast again. The Doviello this time...

Edit6: My god. A few turns latter... turn 64. The Ljosalfar die... to a lizardman it appears. Probobly had something with it or... something... sheeessh its down to me and 3 computers, turn 64 in a huge game with all normal slots full...

Edit7: There go the bannor... turn 68... by not one, but TWO pit beasts, and a small army of skeletons...



This game begs me to ask... Why the heck did a freakload of pit demons spawn that early in the game?!

Ouch. That's somewhat insane.

Pitbeasts and Treants can only be generated by a "MarnokDungeoneerBigBad" result, which is one of the less common results. It may well be related to the "Huge" map and the sheer number of lairs that spawned - the chance of spawning 3 big-bads in a row are less than 0.1%, but the chance of getting 3 from 100+ lairs is quite a bit higher...

Playing standard size MP maps mostly, I've only actually come across a single pit-beast and a few gargoyles. I kinda like the "danger" and the rarer monsters (Pitbeasts, Gargoyles, Liches etc) from the BigBad results - but I'll take a look at how the Huge-games effect it. As GhostQ said - it may just have been some freakishly bad luck on the AI's scouting.

 

[Vehem]

Has anyone discovered a reliable way to reproduce the Feature/Command Bar issue? I've only had two occasions that I have managed to "cause" it - and the issue doesn't persist after saving (saving the bugged game, then reloading it doesn't reproduce the issue).

 

[xienwolf]

I reproduce it by starting a new game until I get one which has the error instantly. Then I load the autosave of that game and make it a normal gamesave + Quicksave. Leave the game, modify some settings, load the savegame and then repeatedly QuickLoad until the error comes up. It is basically a guarantee that it appears again within 10 reloads.

 

[Y T]

First of all, let me tell you how much I adore the newly implemented citysets, was waiting quite for a while now to see some development there & eagerly hope for more content regarding the improvements/religious factor.
(e.g. agnostic civs like the Mazatl should get their citysetdesign also for the cottages)

But also need to make a comment about workerpromotions:
Whats the point?, only adds to micromanagement (& code)! I never set the workers on autobuild, wouldnt be very wise with the poor AI, so each of my workers & their task are carefully observed by me & with those promotions now, i get unnecessary breaks in the gameflow!

The bug I found is sortta weird & didnt see it mentioned before:
Playing as Mazatl with the updated creation_ff.py from Hemiptera (so there shouldnt b anywthing wrong with it?!), on the SS u can see that the Jungle transformed from a former forest, but Im not able to build a cottage there & theres no swamp upon the wetlandtile either.
I thought: "Weird, maybe they changed some mechanics!" & build a trail first.
Still, after that, no option to build a cottage; I found a workaround: Scorching the wetland enables the building of a cottage, though on my initial Jungletiles I was able to build cottages rightaway, wetland or not.
Havent tried if a reload would also fix the issue.

So, what Im saying is:
Theres something wrong with jungletransformed forests. I dunno if it has anything to do with the feature-command bar issue, as far as I read about it, It has to do with units losing the command bar when entering a forests, though Im playing the updated version with no other modmods, I havent seen that bug so far, last game playing the Kadhi.
Im keeping an eye on the jungle issue, commencing play.

 

[Vehem]

First of all, let me tell you how much I adore the newly implemented citysets, was waiting quite for a while now to see some development there & eagerly hope for more content regarding the improvements/religious factor.
(e.g. agnostic civs like the Mazatl should get their citysetdesign also for the cottages)

But also need to make a comment about workerpromotions:
Whats the point?, only adds to micromanagement (& code)! I never set the workers on autobuild, wouldnt be very wise with the poor AI, so each of my workers & their task are carefully observed by me & with those promotions now, i get unnecessary breaks in the gameflow!

The bug I found is sortta weird & didnt see it mentioned before:
Playing as Mazatl with the updated creation_ff.py from Hemiptera (so there shouldnt b anywthing wrong with it?!), on the SS u can see that the Jungle transformed from a former forest, but Im not able to build a cottage there & theres no swamp upon the wetlandtile either.
I thought: "Weird, maybe they changed some mechanics!" & build a trail first.
Still, after that, no option to build a cottage; I found a workaround: Scorching the wetland enables the building of a cottage, though on my initial Jungletiles I was able to build cottages rightaway, wetland or not.
Havent tried if a reload would also fix the issue.

So, what Im saying is:
Theres something wrong with jungletransformed forests. I dunno if it has anything to do with the feature-command bar issue, as far as I read about it, It has to do with units losing the command bar when entering a forests, though Im playing the updated version with no other modmods, I havent seen that bug so far, last game playing the Kadhi.
Im keeping an eye on the jungle issue, commencing play.

Thanks - it sounds like it's related, though may be a different side effect to the change than has been reported so far.

Deep Jungles actually actually allows *any* race to build improvements in it, but can only appear in Lizardman lands - it was a "cheat", which may have been disrupted by the changes. Kael's change actually allows me to do exactly what I wanted to do initially without cheating at all, so I'll be using that as soon as we get the other Feature-related issue sorted out.

 

[Vehem]

Just a quick one - fixes the graveyards (Kael added new goody events so that they didn't refer to "the villagers" - I missed the change when merging).

Patch B
1. "Rob Graveyard" now works correctly again

 

[Slvynn]

i just found awesome product of vehem's modding, and is actually great power in arms of archos

if haruspex get religion he recieve hight priest spells of same religion
so actually him = chaos archmage + hight priest

druids start with fol spells, and fol religion tagged
haruspex are flexible and get another religions divine tier 3 spells if they have unit religion

save called malakim but thats archos save, dont ask why lol

also Vehem i'll be happy to see you on hamachi some day just to talk with you about some FF thingies, pics and stuff
i kinda bit back to modding

 

[Slvynn]

Vehem we tryed today new version MP game . All worked well. Only few people agreed on same - Kahdi kcurrent color in chat is unreadable. All other civs not using their national color but some brighter tint of it. Kahdi native color on chat is too dark, and hard to read on most of backgrounds.

 

[Vehem]

if haruspex get religion he recieve hight priest spells of same religion
so actually him = chaos archmage + hight priest

This is a side effect of the changes to the way magic worked - Druids should no longer have the Divine promotion (and as such, neither should Haruspex). The original "downside" to Haruspex was that they don't get the summoning spells, but get an extra sphere instead (Chaos). For the moment, they actually just get both sets of spells.

 

[Slvynn]

This is a side effect of the changes to the way magic worked - Druids should no longer have the Divine promotion (and as such, neither should Haruspex). The original "downside" to Haruspex was that they don't get the summoning spells, but get an extra sphere instead (Chaos). For the moment, they actually just get both sets of spells.

but thats quite cool, powerfull too. Like it vm.
But thats quite balances Archos lack of science. Instead getting arches/highpriests with any religion Archos beeline Commune.
Cool Feature, may be just leave and damper it abit.

Also about horse prequisite for dinosaur horsle-line lizzie units.
Odd that they need horse.
I have another idea - add more 1 resource, visible only to lizzies, like pearls to lanun , Raptors - replaces horse for lizzies. (instead of seeing horse on animal husb they see raptors as resouce)
(At manner it was made once in Civ3 WH mod)

 

[Slvynn]

Vehem i really need to catch you in chat
I have some feedback, issues and news to tell you about.
I advanced with Kahd abit + started to work on new LH in paralel.
I got same feedback from some players i played FF MP recently.
Please come on hamachi or #erebus

 

[Vehem]

Vehem i really need to catch you in chat
I have some feedback, issues and news to tell you about.
I advanced with Kahd abit + started to work on new LH in paralel.
I got same feedback from some players i played FF MP recently.
Please come on hamachi or #erebus

I'm only online for a few minutes at a time at the moment - best to leave it here.

 

[Slvynn]

Archos -
After lot of playing in SP and MP i got same feedback from other players i played mp with.
Yeah they are cool and look cool, but they need some balance tweaks. Compare them to Svart (as recon race) for example..... Nothing is that archos can do better. With -35% resereach (no libs) they wont be at commune when svart will have it and will be close to SoW. They have not double units/early worldspell and their resereach is dampened to get to their late powers.

Suggestions : (by several people, agreed) :
1. Add Spider Shrine (Shrine of Mother) - not expensive UB aviable at some early tech (edu?) that gives +15% tech in city it built. Make alot of sence balance and lore wise : Spider/human genetic experiements ruled by Haruspexs/Spider cult followers sure give some astonishing results.
2. Add Ingenuinity trait to Daracaat (he is worst trait i knowm that was part of idea to balance civ , but even with nature revolt, domestic advantages and potential is miserable (after testing).
3. Leave haruspexes as they are (with getting hight priests spells with religion - w/o it they much worse than bals druids and making commune to expencive tech to rush for them. Thats also awesome lore wise - showing that Archos not trully follows relligions but they use them to advance the spider cult, making symbiosis between any religion and evil chaotic spider cult and chaos powers.

4. I started to make new LH for Ilmu Aris - Haruspex female tribal old shamanic witch, another person which can rule Archos tribes. (prob Spi/Org/Def)

----------------------------
Other things:

5. - intallation issues among different people who want to play MP games - Vehem please add some universal, common Fall fuerhter Dir name, cause with naming copied ffh dir (Fall Further dir) differently MP playes kill their games and those games wont be recoverable (no load aviable).

6. please change Kahdi chat color, as requested in prev,. posts (Current use their national color as it is and cant be readed on most backgrounds (only black space), and this fact annoyed several people i played with.

7. Kahd entry lacks Hero promotion. People think that if choosing mammon path Kahd wont get Hero promotion.

8. Some diplo refusal entries still messsed up.

9. odd horse requirement for dinosaur lizzie horseline - may be add another resource aviable only for liz civs.


10. for Psion entry should be added that its better to level them b4 use them, because domination sucess is based on level differencies, and using it from scratch will lead to make it totally useleewss - he may lose his domination. (need to make clear to playter that psion is really usefull after got some levels, or in case of domination lost it should be disbanded in order to get new one.). May be just add to Psion few starting levles (lets say start at lvl 6 - while no promos given)

other minor stuff i'll post soon, i need just to run so finishing my post . Have more stuff

 

[carnivore1]

Hi, great mod, really adds to the vanilla FFH2 , thumbs up

the thing is, i am receiving a CTD when i play with the Calabim...

i have no idea why it happens, i had a great progress but now the game just crush after few turns...

I have added the save of my current game, maybe you can tell me what the issue is

thanx

 

[carnivore1]

oppss didn't upload right...

here it is

 

[Kaenash]

If we have patch "E" will this cause any conflicts?

 

[Vehem]

If we have patch "E" will this cause any conflicts?

It won't work with Patch D until I upload a new version (Monday afternoon). I normally try to get the updates out on the same day, but I'm a little slow at the moment (weekend has been spent decorating and setting up the computer room at the new house).

Archos -
After lot of playing in SP and MP i got same feedback from other players i played mp with.
Yeah they are cool and look cool, but they need some balance tweaks. Compare them to Svart (as recon race) for example..... Nothing is that archos can do better. With -35% resereach (no libs) they wont be at commune when svart will have it and will be close to SoW. They have not double units/early worldspell and their resereach is dampened to get to their late powers.

When I actually add the new race (working title "Churada"), I'll take a look across the board at balance issues. There are some fair points raised - though I must admit I'd never really looked at the Archos as being weak as the AI is so very strong with them. I'll take a look at some "options" for players. That'll be version FF040 though...

5. - intallation issues among different people who want to play MP games - Vehem please add some universal, common Fall fuerhter Dir name, cause with naming copied ffh dir (Fall Further dir) differently MP playes kill their games and those games wont be recoverable (no load aviable).

I can't set the directory name, as FF installs over a previous FfH install. The name will be whatever the original directory was called. The only way for me to set the name would be to distribute the *whole* mod at once - FfH and FF combined - which would be rather large as you know.

6. please change Kahdi chat color, as requested in prev,. posts (Current use their national color as it is and cant be readed on most backgrounds (only black space), and this fact annoyed several people i played with.

Fair point - will do the same with the Cualli (also a dark colour and difficult to see - it was mentioned before and I don't think I remembered to switch it)

7. Kahd entry lacks Hero promotion. People think that if choosing mammon path Kahd wont get Hero promotion.

8. Some diplo refusal entries still messsed up.

9. odd horse requirement for dinosaur lizzie horseline - may be add another resource aviable only for liz civs.

First two I'll look into (though the TXT_KEY issue is far easier if you can tell me what the TXT_KEYs are). Horse requirement will probably be removed (same as with Nyxkin) - no new resources planned for a very minor feature.

10. for Psion entry should be added that its better to level them b4 use them, because domination sucess is based on level differencies, and using it from scratch will lead to make it totally useleewss - he may lose his domination. (need to make clear to playter that psion is really usefull after got some levels, or in case of domination lost it should be disbanded in order to get new one.). May be just add to Psion few starting levles (lets say start at lvl 6 - while no promos given)

How are you leveling them? They have no CombatClass and as such shouldn't have any promotion options to level with? It's basically a balancing factor to the fact that you're getting top-tier mind casters in technically unlimited supply (even if the supply is "limited" by the requirements).

A wierd CTD

Thanks - will take a look. Does it crash on the same turn/event each time, or randomly over a short period?

 

[domino36963]

I've noticed that buildings and units that raise/lower alignment don't. I noticed this when I built the Prophecy of Ragnorak and my +256 didn't change, same with the city of slums and that one that allows dungeons in every city, but those are just wonders. Buildings and units (like the dungeon and Rosier the Fallen) didn't raise/lower alignment either. Also, the reason those are all "Evil" was because I was trying to play an evil civ since I did a series of Kuriotites (I can never spell it xD), Maizati, and Sheim that founded Order. Another note: I can't seem to win as an evil, I feel weak against the good civs since they seem to be able to start up faster and more efficiently.

Twas' also wondering if you could add the Scorch and Spring spells to the evil lizzies workers. I just couldn't get that civ up and running without those promos, but then again it could just be my play style.