Lorf Yimzo
Atheist
I believe the discussion thread is in the BNW subforum. As for your opinions, pretty much agree with them. Glad those things got fixed.
Fall Patch changes discussion thread
- Thread starter Tinker
- Start date
Aaron90495
King
Right? This has literally been one of the most-asked-for features for years and it wouldn't be tough at all to code. I have no idea what's holding them back from implementing it.
KrikkitTwo
Immortal
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Even if the improvement isn't generating the culture (like a sacred path Jungle with a trade post)?
Interesting. The fishing boats are still good though.
Txurce
Deity
In case you're unaware, InfoAddict provides this information, and much more.
KrikkitTwo
Immortal
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However, they did it for Declarations of War. Hopefully they can use the same screen
redwings1340
Emperor
They nerfed pledge to protect! One super OP policy choice down, two more to go!
Well, hopefully this makes commerce a little better, as now you're going to have to spend money on city states to friend and ally them. Maybe the need for more money will make wide more viable too, thereby buffing liberty? I think patronage is still a really good policy tree. Nothing is probably going to compete with rationalism/tradition anytime soon, but maybe this will create a bit more variability in awesome options of ways to go in the policy trees.
Well, hopefully this makes commerce a little better, as now you're going to have to spend money on city states to friend and ally them. Maybe the need for more money will make wide more viable too, thereby buffing liberty? I think patronage is still a really good policy tree. Nothing is probably going to compete with rationalism/tradition anytime soon, but maybe this will create a bit more variability in awesome options of ways to go in the policy trees.
KrikkitTwo
Immortal
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Yeah... they changed it the wrong way though.. now Pledge is pointless
instead they should have made it better... and more costly
(ie if you had to publically Denounce any bullies or suffer a ~50 influence point loss.. Then Pledge to Protect would be worth putting to 15.. so that it could work with Papal Primacy and Consulates wouldn't be needed)
They could also make Bullying a little easier (perhaps an Honor Policy that gives +50% to bullying strength.. like Gunboat Diplomacy does)..
That way Bullying would be more attractive.. and so Pledging costs more..
So you would have a conflict between Patronage Tree/Papal Civs (Pledge to Protect and get free goodies) v. Honor Tree (bully and get free goodies). They would bothe be more attractive and in conflict
Yeah I agree, I always liked that pledge to protect + clearing a barb camp would get you an early alliance with that city-state, even if only for one turn, since 10 for pledge + 50 for quest = 60. Now that's gone. I thought they should've nerfed Consulates instead. Your suggestion to have real consequences for pledging to protect would've been ideal, but probably a harder programming fix. Nevertheless, this is definitely an improvement. Thanks for listening to us Firaxis!
KrikkitTwo
Immortal
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Well not really, they already have the option come up in the diplo window when your pledge gets bullied.. and dof the response options has real game effects... it would just be a matter of adding
"Denounce" to the option that retains the pledge
(The other option already has consequences)
.. it might require some rebalancing of AI
[Yes it would be more complicated that just changing a number from 10 to 5... but as is they should just remove Pledge altogether]
Enrico Swagolo
Deity
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Pledge seems kinda bad now, yeah, but Patronage into Pledge was overpowered, so it's okay.
I would prefer a Consulates rework that increases base influence by 10, but also increases influence gain from CS missions and Merchants by 25%/50%, encouraging active play, but it's okay.
Sweet to see other balance changes may be implemented later on. Hope they buff Wide by reducing the science penalty per city, maybe from 5% to 2%. Or even 1%. I'm really getting bored of playing Tall into Tradition, because it's always the optimal way (unless I play Venice, then I want to go Tradition and conquer/MoV a lot to send more Food Routes to my capital).
Even without this penalty tall would still be better in many cases, as you get more GP, GA, people in your cities (and science, workable tiles, etc), happiness, less problems from AI's complaints.
I would prefer a Consulates rework that increases base influence by 10, but also increases influence gain from CS missions and Merchants by 25%/50%, encouraging active play, but it's okay.
Sweet to see other balance changes may be implemented later on. Hope they buff Wide by reducing the science penalty per city, maybe from 5% to 2%. Or even 1%. I'm really getting bored of playing Tall into Tradition, because it's always the optimal way (unless I play Venice, then I want to go Tradition and conquer/MoV a lot to send more Food Routes to my capital).
Even without this penalty tall would still be better in many cases, as you get more GP, GA, people in your cities (and science, workable tiles, etc), happiness, less problems from AI's complaints.
redwings1340
Emperor
I'm ok with pledge being pointless in the grand scheme of things. I think now it's more of a warning to other civs (don't attack this city state or I'm going to get upset) than a comforting measure to the city state. I'm still probably going to use it on the city states that are closest to me, just because it might deter computers from attacking them and gaining a foothold city really close to me (and stealing an ally).
KrikkitTwo
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Pointless things should not be in the game.
How is it going to keep AIs away?
They don't know the level of commitment you are giving.. because you suffer no cost if they bully a city state and you say never mind.
Phoenix1595
Lord of the Two Lands
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Has anyone else played around with the new pantheons yet? I'm a little concerned that God King is a little overpowered during the early game, when every little beaker, gold, faith point, etc., counts. It seems like in my recent games when the AI beats me in the faith race, God King is the first to go. Maybe I'm worrying about nothing, but I'm never happy to have a megalomaniac fanatic with strong palace bonuses of extra faith, gold, culture, production and science (am I missing any?) living next door during the Ancient and Classical Eras.
I do like the other two pantheons, though. Just played as Pocatello and grabbed the Earth Mother-- very useful early on for faith. As other posters mentioned, Sun God seems crazy good for tall empires. I'm not complaining otherwise!
I do like the other two pantheons, though. Just played as Pocatello and grabbed the Earth Mother-- very useful early on for faith. As other posters mentioned, Sun God seems crazy good for tall empires. I'm not complaining otherwise!
JHoov714
Chieftain
See this is why we (some of us) shouldn't have begged for nerfs, because you never know exactly how they will change it. As another person said, they went the wrong way with it. Now Pledge to Protect as a game mechanic is largely worthless unless there is something nice about 5 CS influence I'm not thinking of. Be careful what you wish for!
Anyway, I would much rather them buff Piety, Honor, & Commerce with some early attractive options so you might actually have to think about how you spend your policies.
Anyway, I would much rather them buff Piety, Honor, & Commerce with some early attractive options so you might actually have to think about how you spend your policies.
Txurce
Deity
I prefer this nerf to no nerf at all. There was no consensus on what the nerf should be, so unsurprisingly, a lot of people will prefer one other than what Firaxis chose.
I'm still going to Pledge to Protect pretty much everything even if it won't leave me as Friends when paired with Consulates. I really think it should be kept at 10 but you can only Pledge to Protect those you have already gained Friendship with. Increasing the consequences of not upholding the Pledge should also be considered.
JHoov714
Chieftain
Agreed. If that's the best we can do to "fix" the Pledge + Consulates problem, just remove Pledge to Protect and be done with it.
In other news, just read the updated patch notes... America is getting a little love finally with Minutemen getting a Golden Age boost similar to the Brazil UU. Many were calling for America to get a buff in the Fall Patch and while its not world beating, its a nice perk and gives them a little flavor just at the right at the time (historically) I like it. Good stuff!
Petiscator
King
I don't know how I feel about the Pracinhas now.. I mean, America's Minuteman now has no movement cost, Drill I AND the Pracinhas' promotion. Also, Muskets come much earlier. It makes the Pracinha pale in comparison.
